Tutorial Mode [Very long post warning]

Helvian

Member
Before you read anything: read this.
I'm fully aware that I'm going to receive a metric tonne of *chocolate cookies* for this post, because, how dare HELVIAN of all people post something that might help people? Save your *chocolate cookies* for later when you run into me in game - it's not needed here.

With this obligatory rebuttal to your rebuttals already forming in your head from the combination of my name and a thread in the forums, let's get started.

So, a tutorial mode on what? Take a wild guess.

Like anyone else who can remotely play this game, we're all annoyed at these "llama"s. Nobody is happy about them being around as skill-less players, who's skill levels are stagnating at the same entry level for months on end. Sure, there have been a FEW players who've worked their way up incredibly slowly. But just think about the number of people who stumble upon this game, or are referred to it from their friends, and compare it to the people who have found their own way. The ratio would probably be about 1:100.

But what can we do? The thread title.

I'm not talking about walls of text (like this one) that just TELL people how to do things. Most likely they will not read it, not be able to find it, or take in the information. It's not interactive in the slightest, and it doesn't help new players at all.

I'm talking about a fully immersive and interactive tutorial mode, contained within the game, that teaches players everything step by step. It could either be on a pre-set tutorial map with skiing surfaces, overdrive practices, and weapon practice areas. It should probably be progressive - start with skiing, and then the different cores, then work onto weapons and more advanced techniques.

It's going to need to teach players about:
  • The three types of armour
  • Basic controls (downjetting and such)
  • Skiing + Capping
  • Advanced manoeuvring (rocket jumps, boost grenades, plasma)
  • The weapons, their pros and cons, and how to go about using them (can come under advanced manoeuvring)
  • General aiming practice (target dummies, enemy AI in an open arena)
  • The various cores (and the ones yet to be implemented)
  • Even basic things such as where to access and make your loadout
  • In future, teach players about the rabbit mode, and other future modes to come
  • Implement every map so people have a map to themselves (and maybe defending AI) to practice on
I mean it's certainly going to be better than reading a screen of text, and then putting these skills into practice while up to 19 other players are ripping each other a new one. It's not practical at all. You might argue, but they'll be so used to having no opposition while capping! Well, just implement either AI of varying difficulties, or hell, have volunteers assist in this practice.

Think of the problems this will solve:
  • A vastly reduced number of "idiots" in public matches
  • A vastly reduced volume of nerd-rage from people like me
  • More competitive public matches
  • Less hostility between the new player and the seasoned veteran
  • No flame wars over a flag
  • A lot less cold-blooded team killing
  • All the wars in the world will come to a close
  • Global warming will cease
  • Poverty will end immediately
  • America's debt will evaporate
(if it's blue, it ain't true)

This tutorial mode will probably have to be the collaborated efforts of many developers/volunteers, with the coding needed to automate a tutorial like this. I'm not familiar with the engine, and the limitations in what it can achieve. The ideal tutorial mode is what it is - ideal, simply the best version of what it could be. As long as it teaches new players about the basics of the game, it's going to improve the player base, and also make this game not so unfriendly to newcomers.

In a game where:
  • The professionals rarely ever help the new players
  • The new players are 99 times out of 100 unable to learn for themselves
  • The new players don't help themselves or others
  • Help is rarely asked for in game, or in the forums (I barely see anyone query about how to play this game, compared to the amount of people who are in need of tutoring)
  • A handful of new players act incredibly hostile towards criticism
We really need something to teach the new players. And if it's not -the- solution, it's a step in the right direction. People need the knowledge to know how to play before you start shovelling in more features that the new players don't know what in god's name it does, or even where to find it half the time. If it's really not possible because of the engine, there are alternatives. We can always settle for redirecting players to walls of text, as ineffective as it may be. There can be a compendium of articles, videos, and pictures that illustrate step-by-step how things work and how you can do them. As of now, all we have is this: http://instantaction.wikidot.com/fallen-empire:legions which needs to be heavily updated. In an ideal world, a tutorial mode would be fully interactive and teach people as they go along.
You probably just skipped to the bottom of this post. Stop reading this line, go back to the start and read it properly this time.
 

Helvian

Member
957-come-at-me-bro.jpg

Let the *chocolate cookies* begin.
 

Bestking

Member
Before you read anything: read this.
I'm fully aware that I'm going to receive a metric tonne of *chocolate cookies* for this post, because, how dare HELVIAN of all people post something that might help people? Save your *chocolate cookies* for later when you run into me in game - it's not needed here.

With this obligatory rebuttal to your rebuttals already forming in your head from the combination of my name and a thread in the forums, let's get started.

So, a tutorial mode on what? Take a wild guess.

Like anyone else who can remotely play this game, we're all annoyed at these "llama"s. Nobody is happy about them being around as skill-less players, who's skill levels are stagnating at the same entry level for months on end. Sure, there have been a FEW players who've worked their way up incredibly slowly. But just think about the number of people who stumble upon this game, or are referred to it from their friends, and compare it to the people who have found their own way. The ratio would probably be about 1:100.

But what can we do? The thread title.

I'm not talking about walls of text (like this one) that just TELL people how to do things. Most likely they will not read it, not be able to find it, or take in the information. It's not interactive in the slightest, and it doesn't help new players at all.

I'm talking about a fully immersive and interactive tutorial mode, contained within the game, that teaches players everything step by step. It could either be on a pre-set tutorial map with skiing surfaces, overdrive practices, and weapon practice areas. It should probably be progressive - start with skiing, and then the different cores, then work onto weapons and more advanced techniques.

It's going to need to teach players about:
  • The three types of armour
  • Basic controls (downjetting and such)
  • Skiing + Capping
  • Advanced manoeuvring (rocket jumps, boost grenades, plasma)
  • The weapons, their pros and cons, and how to go about using them (can come under advanced manoeuvring)
  • General aiming practice (target dummies, enemy AI in an open arena)
  • The various cores (and the ones yet to be implemented)
  • Even basic things such as where to access and make your loadout
  • In future, teach players about the rabbit mode, and other future modes to come
  • Implement every map so people have a map to themselves (and maybe defending AI) to practice on
I mean it's certainly going to be better than reading a screen of text, and then putting these skills into practice while up to 19 other players are ripping each other a new one. It's not practical at all. You might argue, but they'll be so used to having no opposition while capping! Well, just implement either AI of varying difficulties, or hell, have volunteers assist in this practice.


Think of the problems this will solve:
  • A vastly reduced number of "idiots" in public matches
  • A vastly reduced volume of nerd-rage from people like me
  • More competitive public matches
  • Less hostility between the new player and the seasoned veteran
  • No flame wars over a flag
  • A lot less cold-blooded team killing
  • All the wars in the world will come to a close
  • Global warming will cease
  • Poverty will end immediately
  • America's debt will evaporate
(if it's blue, it ain't true)


This tutorial mode will probably have to be the collaborated efforts of many developers/volunteers, with the coding needed to automate a tutorial like this. I'm not familiar with the engine, and the limitations in what it can achieve. The ideal tutorial mode is what it is - ideal, simply the best version of what it could be. As long as it teaches new players about the basics of the game, it's going to improve the player base, and also make this game not so unfriendly to newcomers.

In a game where:
  • The professionals rarely ever help the new players
  • The new players are 99 times out of 100 unable to learn for themselves
  • The new players don't help themselves or others
  • Help is rarely asked for in game, or in the forums (I barely see anyone query about how to play this game, compared to the amount of people who are in need of tutoring)
  • A handful of new players act incredibly hostile towards criticism
We really need something to teach the new players. And if it's not -the- solution, it's a step in the right direction. People need the knowledge to know how to play before you start shovelling in more features that the new players don't know what in god's name it does, or even where to find it half the time. If it's really not possible because of the engine, there are alternatives. We can always settle for redirecting players to walls of text, as ineffective as it may be. There can be a compendium of articles, videos, and pictures that illustrate step-by-step how things work and how you can do them. As of now, all we have is this: http://instantaction.wikidot.com/fallen-empire:legions which needs to be heavily updated. In an ideal world, a tutorial mode would be fully interactive and teach people as they go along.

You probably just skipped to the bottom of this post. Stop reading this line, go back to the start and read it properly this time.
There was a video created for this purpose, but now, the video will need to be updated ( with new maps and cores ). Somebody needs to modernise this video :
In other words, +1 for this idea.
 

Immanent

Member
There was a video created for this purpose, but now, the video will need to be updated ( with new maps and cores ). Somebody needs to modernise this video :
Videos can only show you so much, when I first started, I saw people demonstrating how to skii properly, but it actually is more useful to try skiing out for yourself than watch somebody else do it. Sure you can learn a lot from a video, but certain things, especially the combat mechanics and rocket jump/grenade boost timings need to be physically carried out by the player themselves. But don't get me wrong, the more tutorial videos, the better. I learned a lot from tutorial videos and cap routes/duelling videos.

Tutorial stuff
Yes, in essence a good idea, I think I may have a seen a similar thread around somewhere... Oh well. I think this would go well hand in hand with the "demo-ish" function that was on playlegions.com where it kind of ran you through the basics of legions, like going up and down slopes to pick up speed and basic cap routes or even time trials for those who were more proficient at it. It would be very beneficial to the game if such things were implemented, but I think the devs do not really have the sufficient resources to make such a tutorial mode, therefore it must be done by the community if it is to be completed.

In case of tl;dr:

I support.
 

Pure

Member
First this should be done when the game is finished because if it's not it will need updating regulary and second I like the idea but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
 

Fixious

Test Lead
Does the tutorial from PlayLegions still exist? If so that could be expanded upon I guess, instead of starting from scratch.
 

stefygraff

Private Tester
Some say its still somewhere.
Only thing i found are the tunnels.

I can make a map just like that, but the game is still in BETA so its not a good idea.

Tutorials ate usually made when the game is close to being finished- this is not our case!!!
 

Xtreme

shaska's bff
yes well i always envisioned some kindof mandatory debriefing when someone played the game for the first time. i like your ideas and in fact it's not the first time someone brings this up, but everytime it resurfaces the reply is pretty much the same. things are going much slower than you want but that's only to be expected from the moment that there is no rigorous dev team working to make improvements. you're a great player helvian and although you give the impression of alittle turd, i see you secretly love this game
 

Belberith

Legions Developer
In response to the people saying that a tutorial mode isn't a very good idea currently, I disagree, though only partially. The physics of Legions is not going to be changing, so skiing tutorials would not have to be updated along with future game updates. Same goes for dueling tutorials. A gameplay and teamwork tutorial, on the other hand, would not be a particularily good idea because of upcoming turrets, deployables, and such.

To those wishing to actually create and script such tutorials, one way to do it is to create a map whose only available game mode is Tutorial, then add scripts for a Tutorial game type. If you aren't very familiar with TorqueScript, I highly suggest you read up on packages and how they work and are used.
 

tree

Member
I fully agree with helvian, this game NEEDS a tutorial, and if we get it done the new players MUST look at it, but what happens if they are stubborn and think they don't need to? It's fine with people who WANT to learn, but if players don't want to then we are stuffed. There was a guy playing (thesteele) and wasn't doing himself any favours by doing llamas and then getting sworn at, so I asked him if he needed help and he didn't reply, I told him how to talk, still no reply. So (assuming there is a tutorial) there should be no way to bypass by maybe putting it ingame.
 
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