The Sniper Thread

Frost

Member
Change it, not in the mood to rant but defense is way to easy, everyone is switching to snipe RL chase and when it's the higher tier players doing it, there's not enough coordination in pubs to actually get away with the flag for long.

Example: grabbing at 180-250 against 3 snipers (conti, unexistent, shadylp) for a full game only resulted in a few caps. Standoffs were decent but getting back to base was almost impossible without escorting/being an escort.

Conclusion: Out of all the games I've played, snipers are supposed to be the sit and click class, yet a good sniper can chase better then a chaser in a Rl/CG loadout.

I don't really have any solid ideas on how it can be changed, but you can move as fast as any other player, while at the same time pegging someone mid air across the map.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
Send someone on distract, if they do their job well, problem solved.

Also, will everyone stop using public play as basis for these things? Public games != Competition games.
 

Frost

Member
Public games are where the majority of the community resides, don't just focus on competition. Also if you stick top snipers in pugs like lanthus, or ucan (regrettably) the same result occurs. To fix this you have to fully stick a person on the sniper all game, and that doesn't even work well now that both lanthus and ucan chase snipe instead of base snipe.

Edit: Also doesn't change the fact that snipers shouldn't have the same mobility uses of shorter range weapons, it makes it too effective in long, medium, and short range when used right.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
...or ucan (regrettably)...
Am I not good enough for you? :(

I do agree that having three snipers on a team is really annoying. If there is no organization, its hard to take down a top tier player who plays anything.

I don't agree that public games can be competitve in some cases. They can get really bad.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
All chasers find it harder to chase once they have had their health reduced. Shoot a rocket at them when their standing still when you're distracting Heavy on Flag, they won't expect it. Try grabbing the flag at full health as well, it means that you can take 2 hits when playing raider, avoid unessential damage like rocket jumps OD etc.

While it is true that there are more public games than pickups, shouldn't the pickups be put first and balanced as high competition games demand this. Public games do not.
 

Frost

Member
What I meant was you can't just focus on the aspect of competition and only change things that make 100% sense in PUGs

Ex:
For: Change snipers because they're almost impossible to deal with in PUBs, and quite hard in PUGs
Against: Don't change snipers because in PUGs you can deal with them if everyone works together

Most of the player base plays in PUBs, and PUBs are where it's hard to deal with the good snipers.

Ucan you just suck all around.

I think something like a reduction in speed would work, yes legions adds speed be they shouldn't be raised to the level of other classes.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
Thats like saying nerf Darklord because nobody can kill him and he can kill everyone. I don't know if its the class or not anymore, because I have a harder time sniping than I used to.
 

Frost

Member
All chasers find it harder to chase once they have had their health reduced. Shoot a rocket at them when their standing still when you're distracting Heavy on Flag, they won't expect it. Try grabbing the flag at full health as well, it means that you can take 2 hits when playing raider, avoid unessential damage like rocket jumps OD etc..

I don't think you've played against ucan when he's sniping before, if you make the slightest indication your on him, he'll take you out before you get to the base the rest of the game. And chasers don't stand still, also if your only tossing 1 rocket off in the general direction of someone while trying to focus on the HoF, it won't be effective.

Edit: Darklord hacks. But in all reality he's just good at his class. Heavy capping is frowned upon by most people since in some cases it can be OP right? Generally, using a class for something it's not specifically designed to do forces everyone else to conform to the easier choice. Darklord's talent isn't something that everyone has, yet there's probably 5 effective snipers for 1 effective RL chase (Darklord)
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
I don't think you've played against ucan when he's sniping before, if you make the slightest indication your on him, he'll take you out before you get to the base the rest of the game. And chasers don't stand still, also if your only tossing 1 rocket off in the general direction of someone while trying to focus on the HoF, it won't be effective.

Edit: Darklord hacks. But in all reality he's just good at his class. Heavy capping is frowned upon by most people since in some cases it can be OP right? Generally, using a class for something it's not specifically designed to do forces everyone else to conform to the easier choice. Darklord's talent isn't something that everyone has, yet there's probably 5 effective snipers for 1 effective RL chase (Darklord)
That might be just coincidence though, because I've seen sub par snipers and they aren't effective ingame. I think its just that the people who are good at sniping have been doing it for so long, you can't really blame the class.
 

Frost

Member
That might be just coincidence though, because I've seen sub par snipers and they aren't effective ingame. I think its just that the people who are good at sniping have been doing it for so long, you can't really blame the class.
That's true, sub par snipers are worse then sub par chasers however top tier snipers chase better then practically anyone save Darklord and perhaps Phan, he lines up his shots really well and uses nades to boost and kill effectively.

I'm nowhere near top tier, and like you said I'd be considered a sub par sniper, even if I did chase with a sniper I'd be ineffective but my point is those snipers that are good completely imbalance the game by chasing. I'm not sure how you are on big maps since I only really play you on frostbyte but lanthus and conting can get me at 200+ grab and I can hit that from either side of the base on both teams on zenith.
 

skypredator

Member
Change it, not in the mood to rant but defense is way to easy, everyone is switching to snipe RL chase and when it's the higher tier players doing it, there's not enough coordination in pubs to actually get away with the flag for long.

Example: grabbing at 180-250 against 3 snipers (conti, unexistent, shadylp) for a full game only resulted in a few caps. Standoffs were decent but getting back to base was almost impossible without escorting/being an escort.

Conclusion: Out of all the games I've played, snipers are supposed to be the sit and click class, yet a good sniper can chase better then a chaser in a Rl/CG loadout.

I don't really have any solid ideas on how it can be changed, but you can move as fast as any other player, while at the same time pegging someone mid air across the map.

Let's not change it. After all, a whole lot of people don't like to use the LR. Is it so bad that another class is may do what your class of choice can do, and perhaps even better? If it is better, adapt. If you want it changed because of the competition, it's not going to happen. =\
 

Frost

Member
Uh maybe you don't know me though you should, I don't exclusively chase so it's not about competition, I also cap so I've seen the sniper from both ends of the spectrum. I'm not saying it has to be changed, I'm just suggesting something for the Devs to think about. And not alot of people have to use it, although if you've been paying attention recently more and more people are switching to sniper. Stick lanthus or ucan in a game and see how it switches. Quality > quantity in legions.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
Let's not change it. After all, a whole lot of people don't like to use the LR. Is it so bad that another class is may do what your class of choice can do, and perhaps even better? If it is better, adapt. If you want it changed because of the competition, it's not going to happen. =\
Its very hard to adapt unless you have the perfect scenario to do so. "Cap better" doesn't really cut it because the skill cap on capping is lower than that of sniping. Although I haven't seen a capper actively try to dodge my shots, its is very hard to run away from a chaser while dodging a sniper. I think thats where he's getting at. You cannot adapt quickly because the best capper can fall victim to the best sniper. Its bad enough having defenders at close range trying to kill you, but you have an overwhelming sniper as well. Coordinated defense can only be overcome with coordinated offense. Sniper is an easily soloable class, even against well-rounded players, while capping is not.

I honestly don't think skill caps can be balanced really. There is a big difference between aim and movement. Sniping has a huge high risk high reward factor. Capping is easier once you know how to skii but may not have high rewards against an alert defender.
 

Piggeh

Puzzlemaster
Ucan put it best - snipers can change a game on their own. I've been trying out sniper - it does seem slightly OP but at the same time, the skill needed matches the reward.
 

dx11101

New Member
Hey guys just wanted to bring up that I thought that the outrider/hornet/boost/sniper/rocket is op.

In the current live version the hornet medium armor has a slightly gimped laser rifle and less agility compared to the outrider.

You can get sniped on the way in, rocketed in the face, and then grenade boost chased all by the same player. Perhaps this is too much all around effectiveness for the hornet?

However, I like the new Sky Bolt :D and all the new maps :D.
 

Abandoned

Member
This is like giving Rambo a minigun, and a 14 year old CoD-addict a minigun.
Same weapon, different user.

Even a Grenade-Launcher is considered over-powered if used properly.
You gotta learn to adapt. And hey, what do you think the LO is there for? ;)
 
i say sniper is one of the upper-tier, yet is also the hardest weapon to learn to use at times.

sure its powerful and effective, but it takes lots of PRACTICE to know WHEN and HOW to snipe effectively.

it probably has the steepest learning curve to use it out of all the other weapons.

also, having trouble with caps vs. snipers? try new routes that keep you out of their site for long periods of time and etc and etc and etc. sure this might not be perfect, but its one counter measure against snipers.... or hope that they suck :D
 

Abandoned

Member
i say sniper is one of the upper-tier, yet is also the hardest weapon to learn to use at times.

sure its powerful and effective, but it takes lots of PRACTICE to know WHEN and HOW to snipe effectively.

it probably has the steepest learning curve to use it out of all the other weapons.

also, having trouble with caps vs. snipers? try new routes that keep you out of their site for long periods of time and etc and etc and etc. sure this might not be perfect, but its one counter measure against snipers.... or hope that they suck :D

Please...
Everything that is bolded, I think the opposite. The sniper-rifle is a hitscan weapon. Mostly ping reliant. Hitscan meaning: POINT AND SHOOT!
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux

Please...
Everything that is bolded, I think the opposite. The sniper-rifle is a hitscan weapon. Mostly ping reliant. Hitscan meaning: POINT AND SHOOT!

Ah, but that laser beam is only the width of one legionnar, shooting someone halfway across the map can be very difficult, especially if you are like me and have to lower the range you can see so you don't lag so much.


I don't think you've played against ucan when he's sniping before, if you make the slightest indication your on him, he'll take you out before you get to the base the rest of the game. And chasers don't stand still, also if your only tossing 1 rocket off in the general direction of someone while trying to focus on the HoF, it won't be effective.

Edit: Darklord hacks. But in all reality he's just good at his class. Heavy capping is frowned upon by most people since in some cases it can be OP right? Generally, using a class for something it's not specifically designed to do forces everyone else to conform to the easier choice. Darklord's talent isn't something that everyone has, yet there's probably 5 effective snipers for 1 effective RL chase (Darklord)

Whoa! I have played against Ucan before when he was using the sniper, and he is very very good at it. That doesn't mean to say that he's unbeatable though!

My original point still stands though, why does everyone think that distract is just means shoot the Heavy? Distract is supposed to attack the part of the defence that poses the most threat, i.e. a not so good HoF is playing, I send the distract to shoot riptack or even darklord in the American games. 1 rocket is enough to compromise them, even in a public game.
 
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