Combos are breaking the game.

Homingun

Member
Before I start, keep in mind that I did not say hand grenades because I believe secondary weapons such as frag nades, impulse nades, energy nades, flash nades, mines, sensors, etc.(when tested properly) would add some nice depth to the game.

One of the most annoying things about combos is the ability to suicide combo. On many instances, I have had players that are critical just come up close to me and point blank combo to kill me from more than half health(as Outrider). This takes no skill except the ability to press 2 buttons in quick succession.

Another way that combos break the game is through combo jumping. When I see this done combined with a llama(especially by competent players), I just want to quit this game. On some maps one can llama and combo jump all the way back to base.

What's the point of body blocks if you can combo block? Combo blocks cover a larger area and can even be done at range. I would prefer the old RLS to this because it at least had an activation timer and some aiming was necessary.

The last thing that I can think of is combo tossing. Players with the flag that are about to die can just toss the flag silly far(sometimes all the way to their own base) by pressing 3 buttons in quick succession. No problem, just macro it like some players have done.

The only benefit that I see in having frag nades is the ability it gives chasers to instantly chase OD cappers. If we really want to buff chasing so much, just add team based jump pads to all of the maps. I'm just hesitant about adding jump pads to future maps after seeing how Gorge turned out.

I don't know if the whole combo idea came from tribes or to make something "cool" but it clearly isn't working in Legions. And please don't go about trying to fix the symptoms instead of the problem.
 

BestCharmie

Member
Yeah, but thats the point.

Players that set themselves as "suicide bombs" - when they die, the other team loses offence/defense. 1 person difference can be a huge deal in one game, even if he was just out for a few seconds...

WAIT, idea! How about those who suicide through combo bombing, get more time until they respawn! I think that could help.

Also the players that use combo jump after llama - err...sorry, I'm kind'a one of them :D. I don't use it all the time, I only use it for e-grabs and such (like "YAY! ENEMY BASE IS EMPTY, MUST DO IT FAST!" - that was caused because of the stupid 1 expert defender that suicide bombed himself). But I think if one would combo jump...I suggest that the combo jump do more damage. I cant think of anything else...

Well for the conclusion of this epic post:

I suggest the players who combo suicide get more time to respawn and the players that llama then combo jump...increasing damage isn't a good thing. I don't know how to suggest to get a solution for the second one.
 

Synista

Member
I think they should just put Hand nades in flag hand... I don't see a problem with why you're getting upset over suiciders ( Maybe you shouldn't use OR ;) ) and I don't have a problem with people using made combo's to block me.... Just means I'd have to outsmart them with another route or just have an LO...

Conclusion: put nades in flag hand would solve your problems such as llamaing then base to base and nade bomb suicide to toss the flag further.
 

OmniNept

Actionaut
Oh, and it strikes me as silly that the dev team was so against melee weapons and yet added these combos; or rather, after hearing their arguments against melee, it strikes me as silly that they'd add these combos. They're like "ranged" melee, to use an oxymoron. If you remember, Mabel, you (and I, for that matter) were against melee because of its potential abuse by body blockers (giving them two chances, essentially). If Spartan's description of combo blocking is accurate, you've added exactly that - and then some.

Granted, the combos are "fun".

Seymour, would you mind merging this post with my previous? Don't feel like wrestling with the discouraged user list at this hour.
 

Karnage

Private Tester
I cannot agree with Homingun more vehemently. Oh wait, just a sec. What's that? More vehemence! Who knew? Yup, this game is already way biased in favor of offence and now they have this too. It is becoming simply ridiculous. I have made this point about tipping the scales in favor of the offence i.e. cappers and LO before and now I find I must bring it up again. Try being a heavy on the flag these days. It's absurdly difficult. The IFFs are gone so now you can't see the cappers coming in till they are right on top of you. Most bases are designed so that the LO can just stand on some tower and shoot down on your sorry ass, leaving you with two choices: fight them and neglect the flag or focus on the flag and get yourself raped. Clusters have become completely ineffectual - except for laying mines which are easily disarmed with a single rocket. It's become really difficult to OD block too. You have to block someone when they are half way across the map if you want your OD to be effective at all. And NOW, even if you manage to survive the attacks of the untouchable LO and OD block the speed cappers despite not seeing them until the very last second, there comes some camper who llamas the flag and does a combo jump all the way back home. So, the one advantage (besides your cumbersome armor) that you had - your instant OD - is also now gone because cappers can essentially do the same thing and much more effectively. Seriously...forget about pressure from the community (most people like to play offence) and just balance the game so that the one true defence class - the poor old fatty - has a fighting chance and the cappers are not so ridiculously advantaged. I realise that this was never the intended use of the grenade but this is what it has come to and, frankly, something must be done.
 

Homingun

Member
Oh, and it strikes me as silly that the dev team was so against melee weapons and yet added these combos; or rather, after hearing their arguments against melee, it strikes me as silly that they'd add these combos. They're like "ranged" melee, to use an oxymoron. If you remember, Mabel, you (and I, for that matter) were against melee because of its potential abuse by body blockers (giving them two chances, essentially). If Spartan's description of combo blocking is accurate, you've added exactly that - and then some.

I think that was the same reason shotguns were not added to this game. Except with shotguns, you can't actually throw cappers off their routes. Also, I think they are so easy to hit because they have a huge hit box (far larger than their actual ingame size).
 

Battelstar

Member
The combos in fight are not the main problem, as the chaingun is still stronger. Also everyone is able to do this combos, so it's fair.

Conclusion: put nades in flag hand would solve your problems such as llamaing then base to base and nade bomb suicide to toss the flag further.

I really love this idea. This would solve all problems with the hand nades, as only the llamaing is really annoying and overpowered nowadays.

Try being a heavy on the flag these days. It's absurdly difficult. The IFFs are gone so now you can't see the cappers coming in till they are right on top of you.

I have to disagree (sry ;) )

HoFing is maybe a bit more difficult now, but not that much. With a good communication you don't have problems with the new IFF, neither with the distractors. In pubs it's a bit different for sure. But who cares about pubs?
 

Application-1

test bester
If some OD's before you, just OD him back and when you touch him then make a sharp turn. Most of the time you can still fling that person of a few meters wich still results into them missing the flag. Just experiment with it Karnage!

But back on the nade issue:
Nadetoss.png
Frostbyte, moonshine, nivosus have became a joke. Every map actually, cap routes dont rely on good returns anymore just make sure you get halfway the map and nade toss that flag!
 

Royalty

The Aussie
Another way that combos break the game is through combo jumping. When I see this done combined with a llama(especially by competent players), I just want to quit this game. On some maps one can llama and combo jump all the way back to base..
Think of it this way, the problem isn't that they use a combo jump to gain speed or velocity, but that players llama. Llamaing (-like my made up word?) is the real problem. Although llamaing is a natural thing for first timers who don't know how to gain speed, when experienced players llama then combo jump, things start to get annoying. Combo jumping is just another way to gain speed fast, just like rocket jumping. The real problem is llamaing.

It isn't at all acceptable to llama if you are an experienced player. However if the enemy capper is about to cap and you know for sure that none of your cappers will grap the flag before the capper caps it- then llama for your life and combo jump all you like (some chasers are going to want to strangle me now..)

But face it chasers- the situation I just mentioned is a tactical llama; a necessary one. And believe me when is say this- if you were in position like this you too would llama the flag and combo jump for your life.

Llamaing is the problem-not combo jumping

BTW we have multiple threads about this

Can someone lock this thread up....
 

Propkid

Member
One of the most annoying things about combos is the ability to suicide combo. On many instances, I have had players that are critical just come up close to me and point blank combo to kill me from more than half health(as Outrider). This takes no skill except the ability to press 2 buttons in quick succession.
The small amount of skill required here is balanced out with the user's health loss. If you're an outrider you should be able to keep your distance.
Another way that combos break the game is through combo jumping. When I see this done combined with a llama(especially by competent players), I just want to quit this game. On some maps one can llama and combo jump all the way back to base.
When this happens to me I don't quit the game but snipe them off. This seems to be a biggie on this board: when thinking about imbalance for some reason you only consider the current meta (low on snipers) instead of considering all the possible counters to a possible tactic. Combos are pretty balanced; short range combos take your health away but are easy while longer ranged combos are harder but you don't lose any health.
This sort of 'compromises' are what L:O has to aim for in order to smoothen the learning curve and to attract more players. Yep, the elitist might suffer but only a tiny bit.
(MABEL U TORE MY HEART APART!!!!! I WANT HOTSWAPPING TO COME BACK!!)
 

Homingun

Member
Think of it this way, the problem isn't that they use a combo jump to gain speed or velocity, but that players llama. Llamaing (-like my made up word?) is the real problem. Although llamaing is a natural thing for first timers who don't know how to gain speed, when experienced players llama then combo jump, things start to get annoying. Combo jumping is just another way to gain speed fast, just like rocket jumping. The real problem is llamaing.

It isn't at all acceptable to llama if you are an experienced player. However if the enemy capper is about to cap and you know for sure that none of your cappers will grap the flag before the capper caps it- then llama for your life and combo jump all you like (some chasers are going to want to strangle me now..)

But face it chasers- the situation I just mentioned is a tactical llama; a necessary one. And believe me when is say this- if you were in position like this you too would llama the flag and combo jump for your life.

Llamaing is the problem-not combo jumping

BTW we have multiple threads about this

Can someone lock this thread up....

By your logic, we just need to have jump pads that launch us to each others bases and back; no skiing necessary. I mean, that would be the fastest way to gain speed right?

Also, you would be surprised how many experienced players resort to combo jumping, combo tossing etc. once they start losing (and some not even).

If you are talking about the "Frag Grenade discussion thread", they are not the same. That thread is way too big of an umbrella with a lot of cross discussion. This is a bit more specific talking about one aspect of frag grenades.
 

Homingun

Member
The small amount of skill required here is balanced out with the user's health loss. If you're an outrider you should be able to keep your distance.

Actually there are things called macros and some players use them already. And being able to press 2 buttons in quick sequence for a kill is what I call cheap.

When this happens to me I don't quit the game but snipe them off. This seems to be a biggie on this board: when thinking about imbalance for some reason you only consider the current meta (low on snipers) instead of considering all the possible counters to a possible tactic. Combos are pretty balanced; short range combos take your health away but are easy while longer ranged combos are harder but you don't lose any health.
This sort of 'compromises' are what L:O has to aim for in order to smoothen the learning curve and to attract more players. Yep, the elitist might suffer but only a tiny bit.
(MABEL U TORE MY HEART APART!!!!! I WANT HOTSWAPPING TO COME BACK!!)

You should play in pick-ups and see how often this actually works. Also, hand nades did not lower or smoothen the learning curve.
 

Propkid

Member
Actually there are things called macros and some players use them already. And being able to press 2 buttons in quick sequence for a kill is what I call cheap.



You should play in pick-ups and see how often this actually works. Also, hand nades did not lower or smoothen the learning curve.
I do play in pickups and the first pickup post-frag update I tried llamaing with combo flights.

Regarding quick key tapping- the player still loses health. Reread my post -.-
Macros are a universal problem in all gaming. The gameplay shouldn't be altered to account for them, though prevention measures would be nice.

The learning curve indeed did not get smoother, but the balance concept that you are arguing against is that players are given an almost skill-less possibility to suicide and cause damage. The way it is done now is the 'smoothest' for the learning curve it can be.
 
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