Combos are breaking the game.

[Abandoned]

I totally agree with your comments about the HoF however it is clear you have not seen the 'real' nade jumpers. N0, they do not jump off the base to the hill, they jump from the base to the other base through the air all the way as Disci has described.

I just went ahead and tried that, it kinda does take a little bit of skill >->;

 

[jedics (ovo)]

ok, next time we are online id like someone to show me cause Ive never seen this and have never seen enough kick come from a combo to push someone even close to that far.

I posted my thread about clusters and have been told there has been no change, pretty hard to believe Karns? Not long after legions returned I tried out hof and clusters and they seemed MUCH more powerful than in the end of the IA days, as of 3 or 4 months ago (not sure when the change happened really as I dont hof that much) but now targets appear to travel thru the spread and take little and sometime no damage. I use to instakill full health targets every night, now only once in a few months. pffft.

 

[Disci]

ok. pffft.

Also double nade MA jump is pretty self explanatory. It's like doing 2 normal rj but you don't touch the ground at all. Nade jump suicide throws the flag like you would shoot the flag on the ground + added velocity from throwing it normaly etc etc etc. You can do the nade throw by just aiming behind you and kill yourself with nadejump, but flag doesn't fly as far as when you throw it first.

 

[T[h]E Dis[as]teR]

well i guess holding the nades in the flag hand is a good solution
it helps chasers to gain speed and blocks llamas from the annoying nade jump with the flag and the nade throw
chasers gain speed is not a bad thing, if you want to grab the flag grab it with a bit thinking to how to loose the chasers
i love to be chased and get away with it some times
a defense boost is not bad it just prevent games from ending with like 10-0 score, and yet it will

 

[Ragol]

YOU WOULD.

YEP

Being of some capping renown, I'm quite qualified to weigh in on this issue. With the current grenade hitbox, and the current grenade explosion radius, it should be simple to readily hit ranged combos. I imagine it'd take you about an hour to learn, Rags. You would then have two chances to block cappers, or even the ability to block multiple cappers from multiple angles. Now were these combos difficult to strike, these new abilities would simply increase skill differential – a good thing. As it stands, though, I think they're made all too easily.

I played around with it a bit last night, and I think I'm on-board with reducing the hitbox size. I hadn't really considered the multiple angle blocks before (derp), but they could definitely be pretty imbalanced at higher levels of play, especially with multiple defenders who can hit and time them properly. I think that and a change relating to the flag carrier's ability to use them (if we are to maintain the variety of large and small maps in competition) would put the grenades in a good place.

I see the potential for the abuse of self-damaging combos by stay-at-homes and other defense in theory, but I don't think that the issue is worth removing combo jumps for. Offensive players can either mid air (with the potential of comboing them with their own grenade as they throw it), or get a solid bead with the chain as the defensive player charges towards them to combo themselves. In most cases, I don't think it is a problem to duel at a longer range to avoid them either.

 

[phanakapan]

make hitbox a tiny bit smaller and make it use flag hand so people with the flag cant nade jump and 99% of the issues with the nades would be fixed.

if you want to prevent the gay 3 button combo flag toss, then just make the offhand have a global reload timer just like the main hand does...

all problems now solved, and chasers still get to nade jump to chase, people still get to combo when it makes sense on defense (which honestly isnt a big deal imo, i cap all the time and not once has someone owned me with combos to a point that its a problem).

 

[Gheist]

phanakapan, voice of reason.

 

[Redvan]

holy sheet, G lives!

 

[AFireInAsa]

Phanakapan said just what I was about to. If you're holding the flag, you shouldn't be able to throw nades. Then, if you release the flag, give it a timer so that you cannot blast the flag 10000 miles. As for combos in use for body blocking, I don't believe that's a huge issue.

 

[fatboy]

A tiny bit smaller as in way smaller. Combo difficultly should be on par, or nearly so, with mid air rockets. Grenades should not blow up from damage, but from a timer so timing, and aim is needed.
Can we not think of a better mechanic for chasers than silly nade boosting?

 

[Disci]

Can we not think of a better mechanic for chasers than silly nade boosting?

^^Opinion. I find it really fun to use, and from what I've heard, many others like it too.

 

[RiPTaCk]

people still get to combo when it makes sense on defense (which honestly isnt a big deal imo, i cap all the time and not once has someone owned me with combos to a point that its a problem).

You probably haven't encountered the right people.

 

[phanakapan]

The right people meaning what? I've played in plenty of pugs with "the right people" and i still find a sniper or a HoF with instant OD more annoying than some LD combo blocking. Sure if you do 150mps front routes over and over its easy to get combo blocked a million times in a row, but even on frost, where front caps are king, if you run routes in loose tandem with another capper, or switch up when and how you OD or hit the brakes at the right time, it will throw off combo blocks without issue. There are a million ways to make someone miss...

 

[<('.'<)_kirby_(>'.')>]

Omg.... I am agreeing with phan..... someone club me with a seal clubbing club..... right now.....

The problems aren't, I imagine, immediately obvious in pubs (or even most pugs). It's at higher levels of organized play that they'd surface.

I play maybe 1 -3 times a weak so lately I have done nothing but pubs.... I don't see much organized play lately. I argued to floks when these first came out that the nade can be game changing for any of the skilled players who use it, and soon made a believer of even him after 10 minutes of learning how to shoot =P. I just don't see it used skillfully right now to pose such a huge problem. I want to see these nades at a higher level of play, so please anybody willing to come show me send me a message. This is not a challenge, me being cocky, or anything like that, I really just want to see it and maybe stretch my legions legs =). I liked the videos that disc made, but even when going or coming so fast your just rocket meat , heavy od butt buddy, or easy bb jailbait imho. I can't understand the problem if I don't see it, and right now I don't see it......but that could just be me being stuburn or retarded, take your pick.

 

[Homingun]

All these solutions that people are proposing take time to develop and test. And rarely do patch jobs solve the inherent problem. Atleast until combos are implemented properly, they should be taken out.

 

[Ragol]

All these solutions that people are proposing take time to develop and test. And rarely do patch jobs solve the inherent problem. Atleast until combos are implemented properly, they should be taken out.

I think in beta imbalances are acceptable, and even to be expected. Not only that, but you keep talking about grenades like they're ruining the game entirely, despite the many posters who don't feel that this is the case --not that everyone thinks they're balanced, but most people don't think they're "breaking the game".

This thread is talking about what should be done about hand grenades, and not just removing them until they are "fixed" (somehow) like you've suggested over and over.

 

[Kryst]

The game is still entirely playable with grenades/combos the way they are. Its not breaking it so bad it needs to be disabled.

I myself am a big combo fragger, but even when I fight those who do the same, I don't find it that game breaking to where drastic measures need to be taken. To be perfectly honest, I dont notice it much at all. :\

 

[Jack]

I don't think they are broken, but I believe that they should be made more difficult to hit. All this complaining about llama grabs comes about because of crappy home d, not particularly a fault of the game. Maybe adjust it so a midair-grenade explosion around the flag doesn't change its course, if you still think it's a problem (if it can be done)?

I very much dislike the idea of putting it into the flag hand. Then there's essentially no nade jumping.

Making a smaller hitbox solves everybody's problems. It would open up a larger skill differential as well, given that a number of people could nade jump in any direction from day 1.

 

[RiPTaCk]

So are there gonna be any changes on the hand nades or not?

 

[RockeyRex]

DoItAllNowIWantItNow!