Ye Olde Melee/Close Range Thread

Mhi200

Member
I'm not so much suggesting these as asking for your opinions, but if you guys like it, consider it suggested =)

1. Shotguns (self explanatory)
2. Melee attacks (3 possible types)
-Actual weapons, such as knives, swords, hammers.
-Hitting with your gun (eg Halo)
-Passive upgrades that increase damage done by ODing into someone/etc.

While these may not seem useful in legions, I think someone skilled in movement could do quite well with these.
 
There were some rumors about a melee sort of thing (force punch or something like that?) going around back on the old IA forums. I'm sure someone can enlighten us more on that subject.
 

Mhi200

Member
@ Alex
I hope you don't mean SG won't work, but I know why you might say that about melee.
Heres what i think:
Actual weapons: unlikely, unless you sneak up on someone standing still...
Gun Bash: Because it can be used without having to actually equip it, it could be used for things such as when a point-blank suicide rocket would happen, as well as sneaking up on someone/etc.
Passive: Useful for HoF and cappers(when the capper barges through the LD as sometimes happens)
 

Mabeline

God-Tier
At some point I wrote a shotgun that was like a UT flak cannon where you charged for a tighter spread (a mechanic devised because it sucked at hitting things at any range). It was utterly useless.

Melee attacks would be beyond useless in a game where players regularly travel at speeds in excess of a football field per second.
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
I believe that the developers are trying to make Legions look less like your regular shooter game. (eg. HALO)

I don't know if its necessarily trying to look less like your typical FPS game, but moreso trying to include content that better works with a FPS+Z-style game.

As for a melee weapon, Seymour still likes to believe such a weapon could find a role in Legions, but admittedly, it would be a very limited use weapon and much more niche than ranged weapons.
 

theGrindLab

Member
A melee weapon would be a last resort in situations where both users are on the outskirts of a map, have run out of ammo and just want to go (not so) hand to hand until one gets the best of the other. Still seems pretty useless in a game with extensive armor (of course, melee weapons could be coded to cause much, much damage at close range) but also sounds pretty damned fun.

Or imagine sneaking up behind a sniper and hacking away at him before he knows what hit him, then finishing him off with any other weapon of choice. The bragging rights. The bragging rights. The bragging rights.
 
Talking of both shotguns and a melee, I immediately start to think of Tribes: Vengeance.
T:V had a weapon called the blaster, which was basically an energy shotgun. To new players (and old players who never bothered to try), it was basically useless because it did fairly low damage. However, I've seen it used to great effectiveness (and joined in on it eventually) as a short-fairly long range MA weapon. It works quite well for constantly withering away at the enemies health. The Fast projectile speed means that you don't have to lead by much (and there's less time for the enemy to react and dodge), and the slight weapon spread meant that it was fairly easy to do a small amount of damage with each shot, and with the close-mid range shots and good aim, fairly easy to get more shots to hit, and thus do faster damage. Also, the fact it drained your energy (a little per shot, but a player with an energy pack just standing on the ground could fire continuously for nearly a minute before his energy is depleted. Jetting players obviously can't fire that much, but they can still afford a shot every few seconds) meant that players can afford to use it more often, as they can't run out of ammo (in the same sense).

Also in T:V there was a fallback weapon, which some called a knife, some called a sword. This was a energy filled blade, which when the fire key was pressed, would shoot forward as if it was spring loaded and release all the energy inside it directly in front of it. That's just the effects, It could basically be considered to be a lunge attack.
Now in the Vanilla game (unmodified original release, for those who aren't aware), the knife was bordering on utterly useless, except in duels where both players have completely used up all their ammo. It had extremely short range, and did something like 25 damage max.
However, in a later mod (called x2) they Upgraded it somewhat. It's effective range was increased (but not so much to be no longer regarded as a melee weapon), and it was given two points on a players body where it did much more damage. Knifing someone in the back (called a"Brutal Back Stab") did roughly twice the damage as the basic attack (i.e. about 50 damage). Now this hitbox is just centre mass in the back. Arms and legs don't count.
The Other location was a knife hit to the Head (called a "Lobotomy"). This was the main game Changer for the knife. I don't know the exact damage amount for a lobotomy, but all I know is whether you were light, medium or heavy, If that knife hit you in the head, you're dead.
This means that it's very effective against heavies who let a light fly too close to them (say a HoF being attacked by a capper or LO. HoF stands on (or near) flag trying to shoot the incoming capper. Said player flys directly over the HoF's Head, aiming down with the knife, and presses fire just as he passes over the HoF's head, and the Hof drops dead.

Now, I can imagine such a lobotomy thing getting overused on noobs, or to annoy and make HoF's too easy to defeat, So I would recommend that a headshot would do around 100, or 150 damage, so as to kill lights or mediums in one shot, but to require additional shots from other weapons to get the heavy.

Disclaimer: I've never actually researched exact damage amounts for the knife, any numbers I'm throwing up are approximations from where I saw them

Personally, I'd quite like to see both of these weapons (or at least similar weapons) tried out in the game, as they offer very different tactics (and knife duels are fun as hell :p).
(If they have actually been tried, and just don't work, then I withdraw my comments).
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
This is very different from kill steaks, and although they didn't require any justification, this does. A melee weapon could be a very niche weapon, to be used in one or two situations, but it could be used in the game.
 

Mhi200

Member
The general response seems to be that is wouldn't find much use. Thats why I suggested gun bashes, not because they've been done before, but because that way everyone can have it, but not at the cost of another, more useful weapon.

theGrindLab said:
Or imagine sneaking up behind a sniper and hacking away at him before he knows what hit him, then finishing him off with any other weapon of choice. The bragging rights. The bragging rights. The bragging rights.

You would not believe the number of times people have tried no sneak up on me sniping, missed with a point blank Ma(on the ground...) and I've killed or escaped them because they blew their chance to take off a large portion of my health before I noticed. I imagine it would be harder to miss with a knife.

NightHawk043 said:
[...]
T:V had a weapon called the blaster, which was basically an energy shotgun. [...] I've seen it used to great effectiveness (and joined in on it eventually) as a short-fairly long range MA weapon. It works quite well for constantly withering away at the enemies health. The Fast projectile speed means that you don't have to lead by much (and there's less time for the enemy to react and dodge), and the slight weapon spread meant that it was fairly easy to do a small amount of damage with each shot, and with the close-mid range shots and good aim, fairly easy to get more shots to hit, and thus do faster damage.[...]

This was pretty much what I meant.
 

ChainU

Member
A cannon that shoots highly preassurised round air waves. (Not a stream.) It would throw the enemies farther from you or launch the allies in the air nicely. It could look a little like a hair drier... Jk... But very hot air could do some damage... Like 1000 °C Hairdrier-ish system.
 

Mhi200

Member
Not much of a hand grenade if it comes from a GL. But my point is:
1.You would take damage from that too.
2. It wouldn't do as much damage
 

Kissyface_r0x

Private Tester
Melee weapons would discourage mid airs in many duel situations, as it would just be much easier for people to simply melee at close range then to attempt to mid air. This would especially hurt new players as they would develop bad habits, focusing more on meleeing(spelling?) then they would on learning more of the important/usefull gun skills that make legions so unique. Also the higher level of skill required for midairs make them much more fun and rewarding.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
Oh how I wish the IA forums weren't down. I'd go fetch my thread from there and put a link here in a heartbeat, but since I can't...

The only way that was ever mentioned that would allow melee is to have it be a semi-ranged weapon that happened to act in a melee fashion. The idea was that you would have lightsaber like objects mounted to your wrists that could be fired off forwards, but would be kept attached to you by a chain or tether, what have you. In this way, they could be used as ranged weapons. Alternatively, if you used them while in OD or while flying at a significantly high speed, you would hold them out at your sides to cut down anyone that you passed, and simply pressing the button results in a stab.

Basically, if you can't use it as a ranged weapon or for lancing, it has no chance.
 

Redvan

Private Tester
uhhhh.... it wasn't that hard to get close to people when playing LO or D. Having a melee would reduce the need to rocket someones face right in front of you, or chain *lady friend*.

If you think it's hard, well, then melee could be considered a challenging weapon. It's good to have a challenge...

I'd say just make melee a chargeable punch that drains energy based on how long you charge it up. At this close range it wont really detract from MA skills... If you're missing MAs at this range, you've already lost.

EDIT: ugh, but wow, i'm really befubbled by the idea that people think its hard to get close range.... Yeah, it's not gonna happen while you're chasing, but chasing is less than 70% of the battle. O and D play a much larger role and they regularly can get into that close range if they want. Providing melee would encourage people to stay further range and thus, try to be better at MAs.
 
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