Time to Balance out the game. O vs D wise.

[Karnage]

We use the 57th TS because we have admin power there and can create channels and boot people who are making a nuisance of themselves etc.

Well not always. I stay up late during weekends and sometimes during weeks and they are always empty. Honestly I've never seen more than 5-6 players on them.

We had 18 players in a PUG tonight. True they were not all Asian but it started out with at least 12 Asians alone.

 

[WildFire]

We use the 57th TS because we have admin power there and can create channels and boot people who are making a nuisance of themselves etc.

Ask GReaper for those controls? I think you'll find you'll get more people playing on the legions overdrive server due to the fact that you euro's there.

 

[St3lth]

Well I Hope we do get an Asian PU admin because I myself was sortin out whether we should have PUGs on the L:O channel or not.

 

[Karnage]

Also I'm asking you, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK ANY KIND OF COMPETITION AT THIS POINT WOULD BRING MORE PLAYERS OR EVEN KEEP THE EXISTING PLAYER BASE, IF THE PROBLEMS WHY PEOPLE ARE NOT PLAYING THE GAME ARE NOT FIXED? Can you please answer that without throwing up *chocolate cookies* in every sentence you write?

I say that competition would help because people are dead bored playing pubs and pugs all the time. Competition is more fun. It's more exciting. I'm not saying it's the final answer but at this point, while we are waiting for other 'upgrades' it would be the best thing we could do to keep people's interest in the game. I know that some clans are not playing at all any more precisely because there is no competition. They are just waiting for the time when competition starts up again. The 57th NA division is one of those.

Now I would appreciate it if you would stop talking as if what you say is fact and not opinion. Because the fact is that it is your opinion and no matter how much you spam the caps lock or insult me and Asian people in general you will NEVER change that fact. What you say is subjective so please stop thinking that you are some objective all-knowing lord of Legions. I say what I think but I don't insult and SHOUT and I don't say that I think it is the whole truth. There is a lot to the game and no one thing is going to change it and make it perfect. We are both right and I don't know why you can't accept that. It does need more depth and it needs competition. My personal feeling is that we should focus on competition first because that is something that can be implemented soon and will not take months to work out. Giving depth to the game will take ages and will be a long drawn-out process.

I will ask GReaper then, about the TS admin thing.

 

[w00tyou]

Don't get too used to a very unfinished game. Also, [57th]Carnage, you should start to listen to what people actually have to say.

It will never get finished with the kind of devs we have,imo. Volunteers never cut it.

 

[Gheist]

It will never get finished with the kind of devs we have,imo. Volunteers never cut it.

Go pay them for their work, or find someone who will do. If not, back into the corner with you and shush.

 

[WildFire]

Go pay them for their work, or find someone who will do. If not, back into the corner with you and shush.

Damn right.

 

[RiPTaCk]

Can we get this thing back to topic because intitially this thread started with the potential to have a good discussion.

 

[Xtreme]

Post concerning competition

Disci has a point, regardless of whether he includes unecessary comments. What use are private servers and increased competition when there is no playerbase? I've seen more and more people go into a period of "hibernation," as disci called it. It's not because there are no private servers, but because there is an overall lacking depth to the game. This implies that over time, playing leejunz becomes progressively boring, if not exhausting when faced with the countless idiots and trolls on the forums, IRC and on teamspeak.

On topic, I think we need to distinguish between pubs and pugs.

As far as pubs go, I agree that we need more base assets to lessen the burden on defense. However, many players (including myself) frequently choose to stay and defend because of the llamas/inexperienced players that intuitively march on to the enemy base. It's rather frustrating when you take a route and have some newblood ruin it for you at the last minute.

In pugs, positions are designated by the captains, so if there is an imablance it's their fault, not the fault of developers for not having implemented new game features. Captains are supposed to accomodate for the features that are yet to be introduced.

 

[radiofriendly]

What use are private servers and increased competition when there is no playerbase?

If you want to attract mice, you wouldn't wait for mice to show up on and then throw some crumbs at them. Instead, you throw some crumbs on the floor and wait for them to come. What you're claiming here seems to be the wrong way around: if you want to have an active, competitive community, you have to supply the conditions for it. I can't blame people who are craving for some serious gaming to let this game sit aside for a bit. Right now it simply needs to have some more features (admin controls etc), and they are working on getting them for us.

 

[T[h]E Dis[as]teR]

........

if there is a pub server for new player and a server for more advanced players with base assets would be good
because new players would find it impossible to take the flag from the stand or maybe half of them would just try to learn even though with their brick head is on

 

[Karnage]

What Radiofriendly said (and well said it was too). Also, Disaster, I think that's a good idea. I think one of the reasons the player base is so small is that this game is so difficult to get learn. If you had beginner, intermediate and advanced servers (or something along those lines) it might help quite a bit.

 

[MJ1284]

This pretty much summarizes what happens when one GOOD offense player goes up against noob filled Base Defense:

I wouldn't mind having SOME base assets, even if it's just to give you the feel you're walking on "enemy territory".

P.S Can we have glide kites for LO? I wanna missile-kick fatty Appy who won't move his ass off the flag.

 

[Gravis]

What Radiofriendly said (and well said it was too). Also, Disaster, I think that's a good idea. I think one of the reasons the player base is so small is that this game is so difficult to get learn. If you had beginner, intermediate and advanced servers (or something along those lines) it might help quite a bit.

I'm not sure separating players will help people learn. More often than not, learning comes from getting your ass kicked. If you're a noob playing other noobs who don't know how to properly ski/cap/hof, then improving will be difficult. It was for me until I actually joined 57th and was taught both basic and more advanced techniques. What Legions needs more of is people willing to train people and less clans who only take the best of the best (or choose the best of the best in pugs); clans are part of the backbone of bringing new players up the ladder. If that's not possible, then some dedicated members of LOForums should be personally seeking and training those who want to get better. That's all we can really do at this point since it'll be awhile until the game officially picks up. It'll help both pubs and pugs and maybe even balance things out with more skill being implemented over less common positions.

On a similar note, just telling people to get better and act patronizing doesn't help. With the kind of learning curve this game requires, a helping hand is more important than peoples' egos and condescension.

 

[Aeon Flux]

Wow, I've read through everything in this thread and good points were made. Refering to Base Assets - Base Turrets, Deployable Turrets, Mines.. The "human factor" and how base assets relate to defense. With the way the game is, and the state that its in. I don't expect the dev team to really put "Fixed" base turrets in(timely manner), but,.. Deployable turrets, yes... Mines,. yes..

What this does for the "human factor" of the game, is this... A match starts, in a pub even. Where people are kinda going they're own way doing what they want. Those that wanna play D, now have a better chance of "stalling" enemy cappers to some extent. Some cappers will still bust through, even under full turret/mine D. Its a Base afterall, its supposed to be Defended. The FACT of the matter is, you have Tribes Players playing this game Running Caps with breeze of ease, thinking its l33t. They're used to heavily defended flags (turrets, mines, hof). And now all of that is gone, all they have to worry about is a HoF or 2, and some LD. On top of that, they have Overdrive on they're side. <- Thats the problem with the game. There's nothing in place to stop that, in a PUB mind you.

So, what im suggesting is this. A new loadout, in Medium Armor, you spawn with 1 Turret, and 1 Mine. The turret can only be placed on terrain and level base floors/bridges/roofs. The mine cannot be used as a combo, as in T1. And can be placed the same. Teammates cannot shoot team mines, or turrets.

The maps play a big part in all of this as well. Some of them are just poor, and result in pretty much Base to Base OD Capping. If it came to a point where I could host my own server, they would not be in my rotation.

quote myself here

"They're used to heavily defended flags (turrets, mines, hof). And now all of that is gone, all they have to worry about is a HoF or 2, and some LD. On top of that, they have Overdrive on they're side. <- Thats the problem with the game." O vs D wise.

Its just so appearent, the maps are made for OD,and not Defense. The small maps anyways. Might as well do away with the base's and put the flag on the terrain on those maps. The bases just get in the way.

I started this thread because, well.. seems like a Tribes game to me. A modified one at that. Modified to the point where there's no Defense., At all. But yet, theres a new mod, called Overdrive that totally boost Offense. Shame on IA for this. I guess whoever came up with this idea, got their ass handed to them in Tribes, when trying to Cap. lol.

 

[Disci]

For some bringing Tribes into a Legions discussion is like a red rag for the bull. Don't expect people to understand what you just said, they just say it's Legions and it should work differently and then walk away happily thinking they pwned another Tribes vet. They don't realise the game is broken in so many ways atm and OD being one of the biggest reasons why there is hard to find a good balance between O and D. Hell, most of the people in here would happily run front OD routes 'till they drop dead.

They don't see any problems with old maps either and if we would have change map vote ability, Stygian would get skipped every damn time. Same with Gorge. People can't play these new maps, because it would require changing your playstyle from front OD spamming to route running. Changing something you have been doing some specific way for months and even years would require energy, this is why these people rarely do it if they are not forced to.

I agree many of the points you just made. Game will evolve past all this and it will be interesting what OD cores will bring to the table. I just hope Sents iOD would change to shield pack of some sort. iOD is just ridiculous. I'm ok with deployable turrets, inventorys, sensors, beacons etc. I'm ok with base assets such as, turrets, inventorys, forcefields. Let me have 'The Green Death' and nothing will bother me anymore.

 

[Xtreme]

For some bringing Tribes into a Legions discussion is like a red rag for the bull.

Disci speaking in similes and metaphors, how sweet

They don't see any problems with old maps either and if we would have change map vote ability, Stygian would get skipped every damn time. Same with Gorge.

Couldn't agree more. Almost all euro pickups are on frost - if we get lucky and have enough players, we get to enjoy zenith. I really think we need to give gorge another chance, I feel like I'm the only one who likes that map.

 

[Gheist]

[...] I feel like I'm the only one who likes that map.

I'm with you.

Nice post, Aeon Flux.

 

[HellzHere]

TBH i really hate the idea of turrets, its gonna mess up the game. Darn these tribes guys...like I said not all of us want this game to be tribes, i might aswell go download tribes now tbh.

They don't see any problems with old maps either and if we would have change map vote ability, Stygian would get skipped every damn time. Same with Gorge. People can't play these new maps, because it would require changing your playstyle from front OD spamming to route running. Changing something you have been doing some specific way for months and even years would require energy, this is why these people rarely do it if they are not forced to.

I will use the fronts if they are working. For example on moonshine, if one of rj front routes work, i will continue to use them. Why waste time going on a long side route, when the front route is working find...isnt that just dumb. Yea Disci, i know you love side routes, but dont try making us all use side routes. I know side routes on almost all maps, but again why bother if the front route is working find?

Stygan is not hated because of the side routes, dont assume all cappers are lazy and cant be bothered to use a side route. TBH i dont know why its hated, i hate the overall design tbh, i dont like where the flag is at all.

Dont get me wrong, am not denying there are problems with the game.

 

[qqchurch]

I like the game just as it is right now and I'll still like it even after 50 updates. There isn't really much to complain if you simply let yourself be absorbed by the game and have fun, but it is also understandable that you have to wake up and smell the occasional dogcrap that's left on your porch. That dogcrap, however, is dependent on how much you would take this game and this community seriously. For me, it's like a smaller than average dogcrap that doesn't really register to my senses and I wouldn't really know it's there unless someone visits me and points out that I have crap on my porch. For others, they have superhuman senses capable of smelling crap vividly within a hundred-mile radius and they would always smell that dogcrap until they get up and do something about it.

This thread, and many other, is what these people with superhuman crap senses powers do to get rid of the crap, or the imbalances in this game. I love reading these discussions since they provide me with a depth in L:O that I usually have no knowledge of and give me ideas to act upon and help me understand the game, and the players, more.

That said, like I said above, I don't really see the problems most people point out in these threads (mostly due to the inexperienced-ness of the majority of the asian players - me included) but if there is a problem in this game - players, weapons, physics, bumpmaps, models and otherwise - there isn't really a quickfix solution to them (unless the Devs do have a quickfix solution, if then, then daaayuuuum!) and they could only be solved by slow, methodical process in which threads like this (excluding the scathing arguments) take a part of. Clashing and flaming others (with a few sprinkles of prejudices here and there) can not and will not help the process, but I respect everybody's opinions, no matter how they deliver them. I actually find witty, sarcastic replies, while would rub others the wrong way, quite funny and is not the least bit offending if you know how that person acts (in a nutshell).

And to the OP, more content ftw! Though I am a bit skeptical about how the Devs would put turrets and such in the maps as they are. The previewed Inv Station would be perfect on some spots in maps with large bases (Fallout, Mirage, Core, Blade Run, Stygian and Gorge) but I couldn't envision them being place in the Frost, Nivo and Moonshine bases, they just feel and look too small to put base assets on.

On the maps, the only problematic map to me is Moonshine. It's almost like front routes on that map are all awkward to a degree. That's just my opinion, though. Stygian I love since it's always an orgy on the flagstand when LO come and gives us bagels.

/rambling