Time to Balance out the game. O vs D wise.

Aeon Flux

New Member
The game is geared to much towards Offense, and thats fun to some extent. But any tribes vet would or should agree that its like a game of "Tribes for Dummy's". There's just no resistance at the base other than the human factor. On top of that, instead of chasing the Flag as a last resort, in this game its mandatory. You always have to chase because of the lack of Base D.

Defensive assets need to be there, Base Turrets, Mines.

And any good capper should be able to bypass both with ease, this will put an end to llama grabs by would-be cappers. Remember Raindance? The Rocket turret midfield, the Plasma turret on the base? Along with deployable turrets in the field and a mine on the Flag? A good capper could go right through all of it.

But if the capper got body blocked in anyway, the turrets did their job.

Should they be destroyable? Of course. As far as repair, let them auto repair for the time being. As long as the turrets are not being raped, they'll auto repair. Lets say 60sec. Gives the capper time to go in turret free. With that being said, bring back the Mortars, not some cluster bomb.

God Forbid, something like this gets put in place and mess's people's OD routes.
 

Fixious

Test Lead


http://www.legionsoverdrive.com/blog/2011/03/26/state-empire-address/
 

Aeon Flux

New Member
Let me guess you haven't tried the hand grenades?

Nope have not tried, are they like Base turrets?

Yes, I use them. But they are not Base D

Instead of adding more maps, lets make the current maps have Base D, quality over quanity kinda deal.
 

Gravis

Member
Grenades have too high a costs to be truly effective defensively. Sure, you can kill someone quickly, but at the expense of a lot of health. We already have that with OD'ing and you pretty much have to respawn immediately after. A good offense will strike you down right after using the combo too, so you'll already be dead if you choose to not respawn. Clusters are great too, but you must be at a mid-long range distance for them to be any effective, and good cappers will always blow up your cluster-mine, so that kind of use it pretty much pointless unless you want something for shits and giggles. Furthermore, a lot of dueling is done in short ranges, so clusters are mostly useless right here too.

I do believe there will be a greater balance once things like turrets are introduced, but even in my tribes days turrets were nothing more than a nuisance except in base D situations. And setting up a ton of turrets takes up too much time. They were easily destroyed for the most part, which includes the base turrets; so both base turrets and deployables will have to actually have a greater effective than what some of us have experienced.

When it comes to game-play I have to be honest; it's not going to sustain my interest too much longer with the current imbalance of things. Not only that, but now it's becoming a stupid trend that almost breaks things with teams stacking D and only sending 1-3 people depending on how many of them are on the team. I've seen this happen in the last week to a point where it's common in almost every game and this forces games into meaningless cap-outs, absolutely meaningless. Basically, there's often little point in taking the game seriously when the game-play tilts to such a common point of broken strategy. You can't even call it 'defense' either as it's mostly a bunch of raiders/1 sent gang-raping anything that moves and not even the greatest dueler can fight 5-6 people at one time. An offense with an equal number as the enemy defense does little to change that, especially when it comes to grabbing the flag.

In the end it all becomes very tiring. Something needs a change soon with an emphasis on the game instead of a new map or a bloody weapon tweak.
 

Aeon Flux

New Member
The fact of the matter is this, Legions will be competing with the next Tribes game soon. Alot of people will probably switch over. Hate to say it, but its true.

They probably will have base turrets, mines and *chocolate cookies* like that in place from day 1. It's a new developer and all. Im pretty sure one of them played tribes back in the day.
 

Disci

Old man
The fact of the matter is this, Legions will be competing with the next Tribes game soon. Alot of people will probably switch over. Hate to say it, but its true.

They probably will have base turrets, mines and *chocolate cookies* like that in place from day 1. It's a new developer and all. Im pretty sure one of them played tribes back in the day.

This is interesting actually. I'd guess atleast half of the dev team if not everyone starts to play T:A too. Let's just remember, that Legions and Tribes are both very different games and I'm sure devs are taking this in consideration. Keeping Legions LT/cluster kind of pace while still adding some depth to it vs T:A's tactical aspect with slower game pace where weigth is on many different roles, vehicles, "micro management" kind of strategys. I'm pretty sure I will keep playing Legions and probably will play T:A if I ever decide to buy a new computer which can run it.

Let me guess you haven't tried the hand grenades?

And this has something to do with lack of base D? Please explain, because I'm totaly lost.

Good read, let me guess. The OD cores will come first?

Cores probably coming first according to the hints they've given us here on the forums and IRC.
 

St3lth

Backend Contributor
No, actually hand grenades and combo blocking is what really the definition of defense has just become. Well atleast in 'em Asian servers. People who have no experience playing d are solely playing D now. One person combo blocks and the other gets ready to block the other one. IMHO the offense is too lazy or too bad to find another way through the defense or they are just too frustrated. I think we nee something that boosts the O.
 

Abandoned

Member
Most of the public games I've been through has been the lack of offense.
It's a continuous problem. As public games are disorganised the way they are, there is no co-ordination.
People would fly their way to the enemy base, try out some offense, dish out little damage and soon get owned.

Basically: Defense is easier than offense, adding to the fact if you DO kill one of the enemy, they will just respawn and kick your ass.

Base assets that replace the need of players to defense would help a lot.
 

anak

VIP
i don't see why defense needs help. the only reason i ever didn't block every capper that came in was bad positioning on my part or a lucky grenade from LO. any hof that can actually duel pretty much counters every offensive strategy except tandem capping. and even then, double blocks are basically easy if the hof isn't dumb.
 

MJ1284

Member
The fact of the matter is this, Legions will be competing with the next Tribes game soon. Alot of people will probably switch over. Hate to say it, but its true.
They probably will have base turrets, mines and *chocolate cookies* like that in place from day 1. It's a new developer and all. Im pretty sure one of them played tribes back in the day.
Way things are now, I'm very likely to jump in T:A wagon and let Legions sink. Let's face it, way Public games are & size of community doesn't bode well for L:O.

On topic: "Balance" has always been issue in Legions, either you have nobody at base to catch your flag pass or you have nobody harassing enemy defence making it difficult to fulfill any role effectively. You'd think it's obvious that people to use their brains and observe what aspect your team is neglecting but Pubs in past few months have shown me this is not the case.
In games such as Legions where learning curve is steep (even more so in Tribes games) number of players is poor way to determine "balance". Base assets would definitely force people to approach CTF differently but I think we all can agree that T1 Rocket Turrets were "tad" overpowered if they were not dispatched quickly (which was pretty easy if you knew how), hench having base assets "replace" defenders is wrong way to go... "weeding out llamas and keeping enemy O on their toes" sounds better to me.

Short story: Base assets is step towards right direction but it won't cut it.
 

anak

VIP
the issue of legions, imo, is the lack of people who can suck it up and get better rather than crying imba. the problem that professional game balancers face is separating the whiners from the actual problems.

an easy way to separate them is to analyze the level - quantity AND quality - of information the complaining party offers to support their claim.

for instance, you provided nothing except a blanket statement (the game's imbalanced) and something about a human factor. what is lacking in human factor, exactly? you can respawn and be back at your base in seconds, and a hof with an OP instaOD is sitting on or around the flag 90% of the time.
 

Karnage

Private Tester
The game has definitely become unbalanced. Ever since those little floaty nades were introduced everyone wants to combo incoming offence. It's way more fun than having it done to you. Anyone who takes note will see that the over-stacking of D began at around the time those nades were introduced. Now, you can play in a pub and literally, everyone will be on D. It used to be the other way around before the popping nades. Not sure what to do about it but dems da facts. I think we must remember that this game is not really designed for pubs. There are too many ways that idiots can mess up a game. It is designed for competition and unless we manage to get some competition going soon (privately hosted servers and a ladder/league) people are going to start falling away. Giving us the ability to host servers privately should be the absolute main priority. No more maps, no more weapons or deployables etc. We need to be able to host our own games.
 

Disci

Old man
The game has definitely become unbalanced.
Not true. Game still favors O more than D. As you are talking about defense being easier. Game has always been unbalanced. You can't say it just recently got unbalanced. :p
Ever since those little floaty nades were introduced everyone wants to combo incoming offence. It's way more fun than having it done to you. Anyone who takes note will see that the over-stacking of D began at around the time those nades were introduced.
Stacked D was there way before nades. Idk on asian servers but on USA and europe it has always been more D than O.
I think we must remember that this game is not really designed for pubs. There are too many ways that idiots can mess up a game
Ofcos it's designed for competition. I'm interested to hear how you would change it to fit for pub gaming. Make it a flash game? :D:D:D
It is designed for competition and unless we manage to get some competition going soon (privately hosted servers and a ladder/league) people are going to start falling away. Giving us the ability to host servers privately should be the absolute main priority. No more maps, no more weapons or deployables etc. We need to be able to host our own games.
Over exaggerating(tbh who cares about asian players). Legions has never been very popular. You can't say people will start go away if that and that feature isn't implemented asap when there is no existing player base which would actually be in danger to be lost. Most of the people are hibernating just like me. I pub sometimes, stopped playing PUG's because of the quality of them sucked too often(ie people refused to play their given position, match taking years to start + over all faggotry certain people was able to pull every time) and just watch and wait 'till something interesting is added to the game. Imo Fallout and Stygian were pleasant surprises and those maps alone made me play a lot more recently. Ability to host your own private servers will not bring people back or any kind of tourney/league/ladder will not do that either. If the game remains as it is, PEOPLE WILL NOT PLAY IT. You know why? Because there is no depth, which inventorys/new loadouts(new positions), base assets, weapons, gameplay changes, new game mods etc etc, would provide.
 

Karnage

Private Tester
Over exaggerating(tbh who cares about asian players).
You really do want to piss me off don't you? But you can't because I would have to respect you for your words to have weight. And they don't. They are like so many farts in the wind.

You ramble on and on but nothing you say has any substance. You just gainsay everything I say. And then you say things like, 'there is no existing player base'. Who the pluck am I talking to then?
It may lack depth but that is because it is more like a sport and what keeps a sport alive is competition. Without competition that sport gets really boring.

I also never said that I wanted to change it to suit pub gaming. Why you would assume that I do not know.
 
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