Big Fat Weapon Update on Public Test

[Neuchy]

Ok the bouncing feature on the nade launcher is exaggerated. Before this update was implemented, you could still make your nade bounce if you were close to the ground. Now even when you're high in the air it bounces, which is... unrealistic/weird/gay/homosexual/ etc...? To make it blast on landing you need to get a TON of air which ofc increases the fly time. So that definitely needs to be fixed and brought back to what it was.

For the BR I believe you could whether increase the splash damage range, increase the damage itself or make those fireballs fly faster .It's underpowered imo.

Last but not least add a CG/BR/GL and/or RL class

 

[Lin]

We've been over this in the thread. after the inital rounds of "omgstupidchangeback" it's been made clear that the bouncing is meant to discourage usage of the gl as many of us know it, and to shift it into a longer range, chaserish role. You may want to try getting actual distance from your opponent rather than flying straight up.

*not trying to be mean here, just stating the info as fast as possible. about to sleep

 

[Karnage]

Lin, you clearly have low ping and do not understand how we use the GL. How many people have you seen using a GL when they are chasing anyway? It's always chain, boost, chain and Ma. For many of us who have high ping it is the weapon of choice for duelling because MAs and chain are out of the question. I beg them not to make it even more bouncy than it already is (which is too bouncy as it is IMO) and to think of those of us who do not have the option of MAing and chaining. It is impossible these days, to fight someone with low ping because one gets MAed and chained in a few seconds. Don't take away the last thing we can use well. Please!

 

[Abandoned]

Lin, you clearly have low ping and do not understand how we use the GL. How many people have you seen using a GL when they are chasing anyway? It's always chain, boost, chain and Ma. For many of us who have high ping it is the weapon of choice for duelling because MAs and chain are out of the question. I beg them not to make it even more bouncy than it already is (which is too bouncy as it is IMO) and to think of those of us who do not have the option of MAing and chaining. It is impossible these days, to fight someone with low ping because one gets MAed and chained in a few seconds. Don't take away the last thing we can use well. Please!

Adding to the fact that Skybolt and Plasma have insane firing rates which as someone said "juggle them in MA"

 

[Mahidhar]

Most people here, believe that the Grenade Launcher stands out, as the most easiest close range damage dealer in the game. Me, and many others listed the limitations of the original from in detailed manner, and they say that even after adding the newer weapons(where in, some may even have overpowering aspects), it's overpowered.This is the first time, I've seen that a weapon is being forcefully limited to a certain area of use, and not let the player choose where to use it.

Therefore, I realize that this argument goes nowhere. It's simply that people who have used and depended on the weapon extensively, look at it in a much more different manner, than people who only use it when their rocket ammo runs out.

I started Legions with it, and I've been using it ever since. I just hope they do not/don't need to make this change to the Grenade Launcher, when the updates go live.

 

[Disci]

Smells like elitist in here. *achoo* Dammit, now I'm getting a rash >_<

Where did I say I was getting 20-40 MA's per match?

 

[Gheist]

Lin, you clearly have low ping and do not understand how we use the GL. [...]

I don't want to sound like an ass, but games don't get balanced around high pings. Weapons that are easy to use at basically unplayable pings are even easier to use at better latency times, etc. Which shooter out there (no matter if Quake, UT, BF, or CoD etc.) can you actually play well with pings around or over 150 (or even more)? Let's just hope that some day you highpingers will get the opportunity to enjoy the game like it's meant to be played (= <100ms).

 

[Application-1]

Just so you know, a head on mortar does not kill a raider, a good cluster does. I know it is hard for high pingers, but stats are stats. And I don't think they are going to focus on high pingers. I think high pingers should just suck it up even though they have been doing it for a long time now.

 

[Karnage]

I am not asking for a lot. I don't expect the game to revolve around us and most of the time we do just suck it up. But this is the last thing we have. It is not easier to use in lower ping, surprisingly. It is kinda balanced because it requires timing and anticipation whether your ping is low or high. Sure it requires more of the aforesaid if your ping is higher but the principle is that both pingers are required to really time their shots.

 

[phanakapan]

I worry at the ability to chain grenades out close range though. The MA ability would have to be removed at close range, but I fear it could still easily be used close range to spam the hell out of everything. I still see people learning how they can use it close range too with bounce attacks. I can see maybe a small increase in RoF, but not 3xs a second like you asked for.

I don't think 3xs a second is a good idea. I don't know how long the current reload timers are for various weapons, but lets say the rocket is once every 3 seconds, then nades would be once ever 2 seconds. maybe once every 1.5 seconds. just enough so you could take two shots as you come in.

 

[LumpySausage]

All the weapons are awesome

 

[Neuchy]

Well in that case let's compromise and make it less bouncy than it is but more bouncy than it was unless you accept to completely forget about that bouncy feature.
As of right now it's ridiculously bouncy. It needs to be fixed.

 

[DeadGuy]

I don't think 3xs a second is a good idea. I don't know how long the current reload timers are for various weapons, but lets say the rocket is once every 3 seconds, then nades would be once ever 2 seconds. maybe once every 1.5 seconds. just enough so you could take two shots as you come in.

Rockets currently shoot out a bit more than once a second. I might go as low as .75 a second for grenades to try it out, but we have to make sure it doesn't get too OP.

Just so you know, a head on mortar does not kill a raider, a good cluster does. I know it is hard for high pingers, but stats are stats. And I don't think they are going to focus on high pingers. I think high pingers should just suck it up even though they have been doing it for a long time now.

The old cluster was OP because the falloff on splash was ridiculous. I don't think one shotting raiders is all that fair and especially not if it's a weapon raiders can use themselves. Mortars are much easier to use effectively and hit your targets, they just don't deal a much damage. For cluster I was thinking it might need to be slightly harder to destroy so only a solid hit would blow up an armed cluster to help with mining. I do think the Mortar needs a buff though so I'm planning on increasing the size of the explosion, giving it further range, and making it arm/explode a bit faster.

Most people here, believe that the Grenade Launcher stands out, as the most easiest close range damage dealer in the game. Me, and many others listed the limitations of the original from in detailed manner, and they say that even after adding the newer weapons(where in, some may even have overpowering aspects), it's overpowered.This is the first time, I've seen that a weapon is being forcefully limited to a certain area of use, and not let the player choose where to use it.

Therefore, I realize that this argument goes nowhere. It's simply that people who have used and depended on the weapon extensively, look at it in a much more different manner, than people who only use it when their rocket ammo runs out.

I started Legions with it, and I've been using it ever since. I just hope they do not/don't need to make this change to the Grenade Launcher, when the updates go live.

I would like to move the Cluster into the close range ground pound mechanic that you used the old GL for. Do you think it doesn't fit that role yet?

 

[Neuchy]

I would like to move the Cluster into the close range ground pound mechanic that you used the old GL for. Do you think it doesn't fit that role yet?

It certainly does not fit that role.
I mean I'm trying to understand your logic there.

Let's nerf and ruin the GL (that is already used for close range combat) with an exaggerated bouncy feature and then let's try to replace that same weapon with another one that very few people use for the simple reason that it (--->) sucks balls (<---) for a variety of reasons.

GLII is just not that great of a weapon, forget about it, delete it, burn it do whatever you want just don't bring it back.
Let's not talk about the huge FPS drop that it causes when too many players use it on a server.
Do you remember when IA first introduced the GLII because I do.
It was overpowered, everybody used it and it lagged as hell for months causing a lot of us to "leave" temporarily.
Also, if you don't time the detonation perfectly, the capper will just grab and run away with full health which makes it a quiet unpopular weapon in the community.
Most HoFs rather use the RL or GL.

Just don't make the same mistakes again please.

 

[Mahidhar]

I would like to move the Cluster into the close range ground pound mechanic that you used the old GL for. Do you think it doesn't fit that role yet?

I've played four full games with only the Cluster Grenade today, and roles really, did not come into mind. It was already tough to adjust shots for the grenades to land where they're supposed to, but to convert it, into a Compressed Cluster?(is what I call, when referring to the method of releasing clusters, just before the grenade hits the ground) It's just not possible in Legions. Now, before you say that's untrue, let us remind ourselves why, the old Sentinel based Cluster Grenade was tolerated, even though it had so much destructive power. Because it was useless on uneven ground.

90% of all the dueling(if not all), done in Legions, is done around/on walls, towers, bridges, ledges etc. People would constantly jump from one pole to another, one pillar to another, one tower to another. This isn't Tribes where the player's maneuverability is restricted, where speed is based on momentum acquired. That's why even the Mortar doesn't work as expected by you people, it's just too easy to fly way, hide, and most importantly, get to higher ground. It's pretty much like, standing on a staircase. You can maybe rarely be able to hit the enemy on that particular step, and we all know how many of such structures exist in Legions. Back to the point; no Legionnaire would be stupid enough to want to fight a ground pounder/Grenadier/Cluster noob(my favorite name, given to me, from IA days), on even ground. That said, if the player still insists on clustering the enemy standing on the step-like structured wall, on the FrostByte map, the cluster would just bounce and explode(you may wish to try base dueling with Grenade Launcher and it's variants, to get more clarity, especially on a FrostByte base) in all directions, doing negligible to no damage at all.

So now, the only other option would be, to use the Cluster Launcher, the old fashioned way. That is, to shoot the grenades without releasing the clusters. By not using the cluster aspect of the Launcher, the weapon and it's damage are utterly useless, for the amount of effort put in. To me, breaking the Grenade Launcher into two, is the same as breaking it completely.

Someone here said, to delete the weapon completely. I might have told you to do the same, but I have a better idea. The Cluster Launcher, in Raider's hands, is but a shell of it's original. And as long as it stays with that class, it will never cease to exist that way. Therefore, I request the developers, atleast for the sake of existing HoFs and other budding ones, to return the Cluster Launcher to the Sentinel, and in it's full power. Just add an extra Loadout for them, which consists of the Cluster Launcher, instead of the Mortar. I'm saying this, because Sentinel users, who have used the Cluster Launcher, have developed a unique way of battling with it, and having variants, in the heavy weapon they use, isn't a bad idea at all.

 

[Gheist]

[...] That's why even the Mortar doesn't work as expected by you people, it's just too easy to fly way, hide, and most importantly, get to higher ground. [...]

Just a little something to think about: Maybe that's exactly what's needed in that situation. If you mortar a stand, why do you do it? So that there won't be a HoF or those pesky bodyblockers. Does it really matter if they're actually dead or hiding/flying away? Not really, does it? This "Aaaaah, I got to get away!" effect is something that the Mortar is very good at. Also, some targets don't (or won't) move at all.

In regards to the rest of your post: If you restrict yourself to only a splash weapon that relies on ground hits while "base-dueling", don't expect it to work. There's a reason for why you're equipped with at least 2 weapons. If there would be one weapon that would be perfect for every situation, there wouldn't be any need for additional ones. And the GL definitely has its uses.

 

[Abandoned]

Just a little something to think about: Maybe that's exactly what's needed in that situation. If you mortar a stand, why do you do it? So that there won't be a HoF or those pesky bodyblockers. Does it really matter if they're actually dead or hiding/flying away? Not really, does it? This "Aaaaah, I got to get away!" effect is something that the Mortar is very good at. Also, some targets don't (or won't) move at all.

In regards to the rest of your post: If you restrict yourself to only a splash weapon that relies on ground hits while "base-dueling", don't expect it to work. There's a reason for why you're equipped with at least 2 weapons. If there would be one weapon that would be perfect for every situation, there wouldn't be any need for additional ones. And the GL definitely has its uses.

Using a mortar to clear a stand needs a sentinel. Clearing the stand and harassing the enemy defense with Sentinel is heavy offense and I heard from some players that it's frowned upon.?

 

[Gheist]

Using a mortar to clear a stand needs a sentinel. Clearing the stand and harassing the enemy defense with Sentinel is heavy offense and I heard from some players that it's frowned upon.?

I don't even know what to say to this post, so I simply won't...

 

[Mahidhar]

Just a little something to think about: Maybe that's exactly what's needed in that situation. If you mortar a stand, why do you do it? So that there won't be a HoF or those pesky bodyblockers. Does it really matter if they're actually dead or hiding/flying away? Not really, does it? This "Aaaaah, I got to get away!" effect is something that the Mortar is very good at. Also, some targets don't (or won't) move at all.

In regards to the rest of your post: If you restrict yourself to only a splash weapon that relies on ground hits while "base-dueling", don't expect it to work. There's a reason for why you're equipped with at least 2 weapons. If there would be one weapon that would be perfect for every situation, there wouldn't be any need for additional ones. And the GL definitely has its uses.

So all that damage, all that radius, just for that "Aaah" effect of yours. You know it actually is "*Shoot Shoot Shoot*, Aaah, got to get away(0.5 second panic maybe), *got away*, *Shoot Shoot Shoot*, let's go eat some Sentinel". This isn't Tribes, where people cannot stop themselves from moving suddenly, because of all the momentum they gained. This isn't Global Agenda, where turrets and stations are on the point. Nobody, and I mean nobody, with a sane mind, places himself literally on the stand, no matter what type of weapon the enemy is holding, because everyone knows, that it's a splash area. It's the fine points/places around the stand, that I'm talking about, which your Mortar will never reach. Sure it might be sort of a harassment for the enemy defense, especially the HoF(maybe only the HoF, in some maps), as it takes time for him to get off the stand, unless he overdrives. As for the Body Blockers, really? Body Blocking isn't done, by standing on the ground, they hover. People who like to body block, will set themselves to it for maybe 10 seconds, when multiple Cappers are coming in. And, by my experience, any Raider can hover for longer periods of time. Also, body blocking is mostly done just outside the base, not near the flag stand. So shoot a Mortar at the stand and see it go off, while the Body Blockers do their own thing. You might even get lucky and kill your own Cappers, as they go in. You need to also think of how the Sentinels can help clear their base, full of red triangles. That is the issue, I was addressing.

Now really. When did I ever say that I want to splash the whole game away? I only listed the already existing limitations of the weapon, and it's new variants. I simply mentioned, that no Raider will choose to use the Cluster Grenade, because of the drawbacks I've detailed, in my previous post. A good splash/ground pound weapon will be effective and worth the effort of using it, with all it's limitations. Right now, I don't see the Cluster Grenade to be one. I don't expect it to work, and fulfill all roles of all the weapons, just the one, it's meant to.

 

[Gheist]

[Rant rant rant] [...] You need to also think of how the Sentinels can help clear their base, full of red triangles. That is the issue, I was addressing. [...]

In this case, please tell me, how is the original GLII doing a better job there? (It's as bad at "base-dueling" as the "new cluster" or the Mortar.) You clean your base with weapons that are suited for that task.

[...] Now really. When did I ever say that I want to splash the whole game away?

Right here:

I've played four full games with only the Cluster Grenade today [...]

[...] I only listed the already existing limitations of the weapon, and it's new variants. I simply mentioned, that no Raider will choose to use the Cluster Grenade, because of the drawbacks I've detailed, in my previous post. A good splash/ground pound weapon will be effective and worth the effort of using it, with all it's limitations. Right now, I don't see the Cluster Grenade to be one. I don't expect it to work, and fulfill all roles of all the weapons, just the one, it's meant to.

And this is the point I do not get. You're acknowledging that the GL (and Cluster) is meant to be used as a splash weapon against enemies at the ground. Yet you're basing your argument on how badly it fairs in a completely different situation ("base-dueling"). Let me repeat a point of my previous post: There are other weapons, and you're not forced to use only one. You have at least one additional weapon with you, and lots (if not all) of them are better suited for "base-dueling" than the GL. Use them. Use the GL (and Cluster) for its own unique strong points. They're there, and I do hope that I don't have to write down a list for you. But don't expect it to be just another RL (which in my opinion is most likely the "base-dueling" weapon, and will always be one of the most versatile weapons in the game).