Big Fat Weapon Update on Public Test

[Neuchy]

The grenade was not nerfed, it was changed to fill a niche that was missing and to get rid of the major overlapping with the rocket. I have been playing with the new grenade for the last 2 days and I will list the pros and cons of the change as I see them:

Pros:
-the bounciness: there is now a weapon that can be used to hit people using base assets to hide, by banking the nades off walls, ceilings, and floors. You can now clear the chutes on nivo and moon without the nade exploding at the top, bank nades into the base of fallout, etc.
-the more severe arc: the grenade is now better suited for chasing as it can go over hills and kill cappers who are using terrain to prevent line of sight shots.
-faster projectile: like above, the grenade is now better suited for chasing.
-longer timer: when dueling you can now lay down a grenade under an opponent while they are falling, essentially setting a trap. the longer timer allows you to do this and switch to another weapon for an effect similar to hotswapping from back in the day. using a hand nade at the same time can provide 3 sources of splash damage in a shorter amount of time than was previously possible.
-faster reload: to offset the longer timer, the weapon now fires more rapidly, allowing a more sustained blanket of splash damage than previously possible.

Cons:
-minor damage nerf for MA shots. I understand this was done because you can still MA people at point blank range, and it is now actually easier to do with the faster projectile.
-more difficult to do point blank splash damage. I can't complain about this since there are plenty of other options for this (rocket or blaster or hand nades).

So why are people complaining again?

Because people just don't agree with you

The bounciness makes it less predictable and accurate than it previously was. This weapon is definitely more of a close combat weapon than one used for chasing. The use of the GL as a chaser weapon is very limited. When it comes to pass obstacles such as hills, unless you have a very bad chaser the chaser will usually be close from the opponent capper right? Therefore, the hill obstacle can be overcome by simply popping a hand nade over it.
As for placing a nade under your opponent... You could do that with the previous GL already. But apparently you didn't learn to use it properly. If aimed correctly you could already clean the chute and restricted environment with the old GL. So 4/5 of the "pros" you mentioned already existed. Good try though.
It is funny how a player who's known to play an offensive position and who just proved to have a poor knowledge of the GL tries to persuade everyone of how great the new GL is. How can you persuade when you can't properly compare the previous and current weapon? You just can't indeed that's my point.

I'm glad DeadGuy changed it and cloned the old GL into the actual GLII.
As long as the GLII stays as it is right now, that is with the characteristics of the old GL, I'm fine.
This way everybody is happy, you want to use a bouncy nade go ahead use it but you'll have better results with the old one.
You want to use the good old, more accurate and reliable GL? Then use the GLII

 

[Lin]

except i cant use gl2 on or...

 

[Disci]

It's not probably a good idea to go against RL with GL. I mean that's why the change was made. You should go there and use weapons which fits the situation best. I can say that you can still use the gren during duels but the way you use it has changed, which in the end, is actually far more interesting than what it was before.

Game will evolve a lot and a lot will be different what it was before. Some people still doesn't get it, but the game will not be the same game what they started to play. So suck it up, peeps.

Like a wise man once said:

the downside of the game not receiving any content love for so long... everything felt 'perfect' before and it's hard for people to understand why these aspects were changed

 

[Lin]

It's not probably a good idea to go against RL with GL. I mean that's why the change was made. You should go there and use weapons which fits the situation best. I can say that you can still use the gren during duels but the way you use it has changed, which in the end, is actually far more interesting than what it was before.

Game will evolve a lot and a lot will be different what it was before. Some people still doesn't get it, but the game will not be the same game what they started to play. So suck it up, peeps.

Like a wise man once said:

But which situation fits the gl best? shooting around corners? chasing over a hill? fighting on a flat plain? How often do these situations even come up?

 

[Karnage]

It's as I said: the weapons that get changed and nerfed and altered or however you wanna put it are the weapons that are used by a minority of people as their main weapon. I think that's partly why these changes aren't seen as a big thing by others who do not use them as their main weapon. If they were to change the RL or the CG I guarantee the outcry would be tantamount to a nuclear bomb. All I ask (again) is that they stop changing what we have and what has been working fine (don't fix it if it ain't broke) and just work on adding the new stuff. That said, I do agree with Neuchy that at least the GLII still works as a more close-range weapon which does, to some extent, make up for the loss of the regular grenade arc/bounce. Still, please don't take away my heavy clusters!

 

[Disci]

Do I really need to remind you that once old LR, which had to be charged before you could shoot it, got changed people bitched about how useless it was. Then after a while when people had time to play with it even more they actually practised playing with it and could be as effective as they were or even better than that. Only recently people were bitching how OP LR is.

So to me it seems, that bitching only happens when ever changes are made. This bitching last only few days and then calms down when people are either tired to write about the same issue or actually learn how to use the new change and are happy again. At some point someone reaches the skill level when the weapon becomes OP and the same bitching starts and it gets changed once again. Do you see what I mean?

If this community would be playing Quakelive, and lets pretend that there was no Q3, and Quakelive was being developed just like Legions today. What do you think would happen to railgun?

 

[dx11101]

For those of you who say not to change anything, I think the plan here is to grow the game and not leave it in eternal small player count limbo like it was with Instant Action. We are going to have to add extra depth to the game to attract more people to play it. I am pretty sure the developers want to see this game grow and not just make it better for the same 100 people which is more like 50 if you dont include the smurfs(sarcasm).

For most of us the game is perfectly fine as it is because we like to cap/chase/kill/respawn rinse repeat. but! Some people want to play a game where if they dont fall under that criteria they would rather run around with a repair tool healing people and turrets or deploy mines and sensors because they like playing a role that helps the team. I hate to bring up Tribes because this game is obviously not tribes even though it is but its not, but I still say atleast in Tribes if you couldnt cap and you couldnt duel atleast you could repair the gens and the inventory station. In the meantime thats when you figure out what the hell you are supposed to do with the jetpack and the flag. The reason being because I am sure you have heard A MILLION TIMES with these FPS-Z games(notice i didn't say tribes) is that the learning curve is steeeeeeeeeeeep. The good players keep coming back for more because they like to be one man armies on public games as well as the challenge of competitive pickup games. Too many of the new players wont re-touch this game with a yard stick or worse because of all this BS I just typed.

 

[Disci]

Also, dx11101, someone doing all that farming thingy, could also be a very effective dueler/stayd and help his team even more! It's actually one of the most demanding positions in Tribes games and at the same time anyone can do it and still be somewhat effective.

 

[phanakapan]

This weapon is definitely more of a close combat weapon than one used for chasing.

This opinion seems to be the root of most of your arguments against the changes to the weapon. The problem with this opinion is in nearly all the situations where you could damage someone up close with the grenade, you could use a variety of other weapons to fill the same role. The entire motivation for the changes to the grenade launcher were to prevent this exact kind of redundancy. Why do we need multiple versions of essentially the same weapon with minor differences in damage or projectile speed that all fill essentially the same role? How is this a benefit to the game? How does this add to the depth of the experience? It doesn't, and as such the changes were made.

Additionally, you can still use it for close up damage, because it will still MA people at point blank range (which is actually easier to do now) or bounce it at less severe angles to damage falling opponents. You just need to adapt to the new way of using it in close combat situations.

As for placing a nade under your opponent... You could do that with the previous GL already. But apparently you didn't learn to use it properly. If aimed correctly you could already clean the chute and restricted environment with the old GL. So 4/5 of the "pros" you mentioned already existed. Good try though.

This is just wrong. With the previous iteration of the weapon, unless you were right next to a wall or the ground, it would not bounce and would explode immediately. Try hitting someone in the bottom of a nivo chute from anywhere on top of the base besides looking directly down the chute or being right next to the entrance of the chute. It simply isn't possible. The grenade will explode immediately when it hits the wall of the chute instead of bouncing down to the bottom. If I have to make a video because you're too dense to try it for yourself, I will. Regardless, the changes are a matter of degree. While the old grenade only allowed bouncing when fired very close to the ground or a wall, the new one allows a greater range for taking advantage of this feature. As for laying it under an opponent, the old grenade would stick or bounce minimally and explode close to where you fired it, but not skip across the ground at distance like the new one. Clearly, you aren't understanding what I mean by laying it under your opponent.

It is funny how a player who's known to play an offensive position and who just proved to have a poor knowledge of the GL tries to persuade everyone of how great the new GL is. How can you persuade when you can't properly compare the previous and current weapon? You just can't indeed that's my point.

You have no clue what I usually play, which is pretty much defense all the time unless its a pug and I'm asked to cap btw. You also have yet to offer any specific examples to support your opinion. I don't know what your point is besides "the changes are bad because i can't use it for instant close up splash damage anymore" with no explanation of why that is a benefit and a necessity.

You should go there and use weapons which fits the situation best.

This exactly...

 

[phanakapan]

But which situation fits the gl best? shooting around corners? chasing over a hill? fighting on a flat plain? How often do these situations even come up?

I would say all of these situations happen in every map. There are base assets on every map, which people hide behind to prevent line of sight shots. Every chase involves hills. There is relatively flat terrain/areas of bases on every map.

 

[Disci]

I would give these changes atleast week or two time before bashing them to the deepest holes in hell. Atleast they deserve that and giving objective feedback for the devs is what they wish from us, right?

 

[Neuchy]

... I don't know what your point is besides "the changes are bad because i can't use it for instant close up splash damage anymore" with no explanation of why that is a benefit and a necessity.

You came up with your pros and cons list and I explained you how 4 out of 5 pros were already existing with the previous version of the GL.
That being said, why would you implement a weapon that is a pain in the ass for all the reason I mentioned earlier and whose only pro is to bring a faster reload time?
I'm so sorry not to have provided you with a nice list of pros and cons as you did. I'm guessing that's why you still didn't understand my point and the point of other players who share my opinion. If you still don't understand there is nothing I can do for you but raise funds so you can take a reading class.

 

[Lin]

I would say all of these situations happen in every map. There are base assets on every map, which people hide behind to prevent line of sight shots. Every chase involves hills. There is relatively flat terrain/areas of bases on every map.

Not exactly what I was talking about. Yes, there is the opportunity for any of these situations to pop up on any given map. But a line of sight shots come up far more often than bounce shots do. Just think, you say you play capper some of the time. How often are you killed over a hill by a grenade? How often are you killed by chainguns/laser rifles/rockets? Bounce shots are also inherently more difficult to land even when the opportunity arises, given the uncertainty of the bounce and the position of the target.

 

[HellzHere]

The grenade was not nerfed, it was changed to fill a niche that was missing and to get rid of the major overlapping with the rocket. I have been playing with the new grenade for the last 2 days and I will list the pros and cons of the change as I see them:

Pros:
-the bounciness: there is now a weapon that can be used to hit people using base assets to hide, by banking the nades off walls, ceilings, and floors. You can now clear the chutes on nivo and moon without the nade exploding at the top, bank nades into the base of fallout, etc.
-the more severe arc: the grenade is now better suited for chasing as it can go over hills and kill cappers who are using terrain to prevent line of sight shots.
-faster projectile: like above, the grenade is now better suited for chasing.
-longer timer: when dueling you can now lay down a grenade under an opponent while they are falling, essentially setting a trap. the longer timer allows you to do this and switch to another weapon for an effect similar to hotswapping from back in the day. using a hand nade at the same time can provide 3 sources of splash damage in a shorter amount of time than was previously possible.
-faster reload: to offset the longer timer, the weapon now fires more rapidly, allowing a more sustained blanket of splash damage than previously possible.

Cons:
-minor damage nerf for MA shots. I understand this was done because you can still MA people at point blank range, and it is now actually easier to do with the faster projectile.
-more difficult to do point blank splash damage. I can't complain about this since there are plenty of other options for this (rocket or blaster or hand nades).

So why are people complaining again?

Basically everyone hates the GL because of the new bounce, thats the main point. The sentence I listed in bold was possible on the old GL and it was more effective/effcient thats why. I approve of the rest of the changes like the arc and stuff but the bounce is what really made everyone mad about the new GL.

But the GL2 is the same as the old GL if u dont treat it was a cluster. So those of you who want the old GL back, why dont u use the GL2?
@Disci quoting my post earlier...whatever man you are a waste of time arguing with

 

[GReaper]

Public test has been updated, so closing this thread.

Please give the new updates a test and give your feedback in this thread.