Viable Legions Vehicles
- Thread starter Volt Cruelerz
- Start date
mausgang
Puzzlemaster
I've had an idea of a slow-moving heavy tank that has two modes of travel: tank treads and skiing. Basically, the skiing feature would be used for going downhill and partway up another hill, and it wouldn't have any forward thrusters, so you'd be at the mercy of gravity, but I think that would add a little bit of Legions Flair to the vehicle. It would have one person who would drive and have a slow moving turret, where you can set the target at whatever speed, but it takes a while for the turret to track to that position, then there would be an indication on the HUD that the turret has tracked to this position. Then, there would be weapons tethers (a la VoltCruelerz) and those would be available not only to defenders, but also people who want to destroy the vehicle. They could get a weapons boost and shoot up the tank from there. The tank will still be quite slow, and would have its best application in a currently theoretical game mode on an 'epic' sized map more like Onslaught from UT. Because it is slow, it should have significant armor, but one or two very dedicated defenders with 20 Rockets/grenades each should be effective against it if there are no defenders on the tethers. I realize that I'm kinda taking a lot of this from the Leviathan, but that is a pretty awesome vehicle. Thoughts?
Also, I do like that Wing idea, its got some useful capabilities on larger maps.
Also, and this is vehicle related, so I'm going post it here, but if there was a game mode with vehicles, should the specialist weapons be converted to be anti-vehicle in nature?
Also, I do like that Wing idea, its got some useful capabilities on larger maps.
Also, and this is vehicle related, so I'm going post it here, but if there was a game mode with vehicles, should the specialist weapons be converted to be anti-vehicle in nature?
NightHawk043
Member
May I draw your attention to this:
Mausgang, keep in mind that if vehicles Were to be added, then it would be illogical to not give normal legionaries a way to defeat them. Therefore you can rest assured that the devs would think of something.
Be it a Specialist weapon in a sense, or a specific anti vehicle weapon (Like the T2 rocket launcher, which Could be used on players, but only if they jet for long enough to get their heat readings up, and are at a far enough range, and therefore much better used on vehicles, to which it would lock on to if you were outside the minimum range, and held your crosshair on long enough), I'm sure we'd be given a cool new toy to play with.
I like the idea of some kind of dodge. Back in battlefield, I remember learning how to dodge heat seeking missiles in jets and helicopters. Using their control system, you'd jerk your mouse to the side to tip to one side quickly, and that worked most of the time if you timed it right. However, I remember that control system was rather hellish to learn to use, and most players kept a joystick in front of them for when they needed to fly something.
Double taps certainly sound a mite easier to learn.
You may have misinterpreted what I meant then. I wasn't suggesting that if a building was between you and it, it would curve around the building. That was my Guaranteed safe move. (as in the way to save if they Were super manoeuvrable rockets)
What I'd been meaning is, if you're exposed in the air with nothing to hide behind, would you be able to dodge it at the last moment.
Linking to the dodges you'd suggested, I'd like it if they were used, but you had to time it late enough so the rocket can't curve to your new position.
What I'd also like to suggest is that the rocket would keep following you until it times out and self destructs. Now, it would have to do it at a much shorter range than normal rockets, but the way i'd like to see it, is that if a rocket was fired at fairly short or medium range, you might have to dodge twice, as it would have time to curve around once before it times out.
The last thing I'd suggest is perhaps a limit to the number of rockets that can lock on at once. It could be argued that multiple would interfere with eachothers guidance systems.
This would be to prevent most of a team of players (say most of the D, and a few O who had just respawned) from all firing a single quick rocket, and the pilot finding him having to dodge 5 rockets all flying to him at the same time. I'd limit it to 3 at the most. (assuming we say 2 is a kill, that way he doesn't need a Perfect score, just 2 out of 3).
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Off the topic of the Glider, if we were to have some kind of vehicle with it's own special weapons (or countermeasures, in the case of a transport/gunship), I'd suggest that they also had an ammo limit, and the way to restore that ammo would be to fly low over the respawn platform (whether all ammo comes straight away, or is gradually added, as if each rocket (or whatever) is being moved onto the aircraft one at a time). Also, the only way to repair the vehicle is to hover low over the platform (flying over wouldn't work as it would have to gradually get the repairs). I'm not including the possible existence of some kind of repair laser.
Volt Cruelerz
Legions Developer
While a tank like that would be cool in most games, it will get slaughtered simply because anyone attacking it will move significantly faster than its weapons can come to bear on a target. And if you gave it tethers, suddenly, it becomes invincible. Tethers (if added) should be reserved to bases with high perches and probably moveable bases, lest they dominate the game. You could say that if we have a base destruction gametype that it could be useful, but the amount of people you'd need defending it to even get it to the base would so severely weaken your team that the other team would actually have the advantage...
I don't think any specialist weapons would be needed so long as the normal RL was giving locking ability on vehicles such as the wing.
I understand you meaning that that they won't have collision avoidance (sucks a ton of processor anyways), but I don't really want them to try making second passes... That would be insane to try to dodge. I do like your idea of capping it at 3 tracking though... If there are already three tracking a player, you'd have to get some sort of notifier on your reticle or IFF saying that you can't lock onto it.
Fixious
Test Lead
Daphinicus
Private Tester
Oooooh.... OOOOOOOOOOH.....
, Looks nice.
Volt Cruelerz
Legions Developer
Forgot to respond to this bit in the previous post.
As a general rule, ammo limits should be imposed on vehicles. Maybe not energy weapons and the like that would run off some sort of internal generator, but physical shots (eg: rockets, high powered weapons, etc) If multi-person vehicles were created with built in turrets (turrets in vehicles are fine since the vehicle itself can move), then the turrets should probably have unlimited small arms ammo (CG equivalent or what have you). As for repairs, unless some repair ability was given to a new class of OR or something (would be interesting to see a pilot class possibly with repair tools and slight passive vehicle regeneration ability), they should repair by flying over their launch pad. As for refilling ammo, they should do the same.
The following does not relate to your post, but are just general statements that I happened to think of...
A problem with tanks in the usual sense in Legions is that they will be incredibly vulnerable. True, they will have immense power, but they have to bring it to bear first which will be the problem. Regardless of the amount of ammo, power, or armor they get, as long as they are slow, Legionnaires will punch through them. It makes me wonder though... Even if they were made incredibly fast (think speeder bike and then some), would a ground vehicle ever be useful in legions (disregarding moveable bases, though even they would probably be best aerial)? As things get faster and more agile, balance (and common sense) dictates that they must lose armor and power. Its quite easy to strike down a foe that can't fly. Ground pounding makes up a very significant number of kills in Legions. If they are in the air, you have to be exact. When they are on the ground, you can be close and still get the kill. Would that extend to vehicles in such a way as to require all vehicles to be aerial? Any lightly armored ground vehicle will be ground pounded to oblivion. I guess they could work as transports for LO, but only on epic maps would there ever be any remote usage for them. Since you shouldn't be able to cap in a vehicle, they'd be worthless to cappers. Actually, ultra light and fast ground vehicles might make chasing OP. Imagine being chased by a speeder bike like object with a Defender Sentinel on it lobbing clusters at you. The GLS isn't on the Raider for a reason.
Is there a case that doesn't fit into the above? Tanks would be too weak and speeders would be too strong. What would be the middle ground, and would it even work? It seems like the medium ground would be neither fast enough to evade fire, nor would have enough power to be viable in combat.
NightHawk043
Member
Well, if we were to take a leaf out of T2's book, then vehicles could have shields which are made from their energy levels. In the case of the smaller vehicles, such as a shrike (scout/fighter), firing weapons also drains shields (i.e. energy). Using vertical thrusters and afterburners also drain energy. Ground vehicles such as the tank and scout bike didn't have the vert thrusters but they did have the afterburners.
Slow vehicles such as the tank were actually really annoyingly strong unless you were a juggernaut (heavy for those who aren't aware). and had either a mortar, or a rocket launcher. They had a separate energy capacitor for weapons, and so could fire as much as they liked, the shield was also strong enough that without the heavy weapons, it's very difficult to drain their shields. ELF's could be used, but only if you can actually get close enough to it without being run over/mortared.
On the other hand, the scout bike is very lightly shielded, and has a Very high knockback (in that It get's knocked back if it's hit).
Admittedly it is so fast it's hard to hit, but the only weapon it has is it's "dashboard".
Slow vehicles such as the tank were actually really annoyingly strong unless you were a juggernaut (heavy for those who aren't aware). and had either a mortar, or a rocket launcher. They had a separate energy capacitor for weapons, and so could fire as much as they liked, the shield was also strong enough that without the heavy weapons, it's very difficult to drain their shields. ELF's could be used, but only if you can actually get close enough to it without being run over/mortared.
On the other hand, the scout bike is very lightly shielded, and has a Very high knockback (in that It get's knocked back if it's hit).
Admittedly it is so fast it's hard to hit, but the only weapon it has is it's "dashboard".
Quick thoughts here.
How about a catapult? They could either be stationed in the bases, or set further back so you can't fling yourself straight into the flag, but enough to get a head start on building up speed for it. It would be the opposite of jump pads, because it would take longer to hurl you, so it is not ideal for chasers. However, it won't hurt you, so it may be a good alternative for patient cappers. Ability to aim, maybe.
I don't really think any vehicles could be used for full-on offensive purposes, as it would ruin the point of the game. We don't want this turning into a clone of Air Rivals or something.
How about a catapult? They could either be stationed in the bases, or set further back so you can't fling yourself straight into the flag, but enough to get a head start on building up speed for it. It would be the opposite of jump pads, because it would take longer to hurl you, so it is not ideal for chasers. However, it won't hurt you, so it may be a good alternative for patient cappers. Ability to aim, maybe.
I don't really think any vehicles could be used for full-on offensive purposes, as it would ruin the point of the game. We don't want this turning into a clone of Air Rivals or something.
Volt Cruelerz
Legions Developer
catapults aren't really vehicles, more base assets... How would it take a long time to be launched though?
Another idea I just had for a vehicle that might work would be a slow flying hoverable craft that would have its pilot man a specialized gun that fires a beam that accelerates the target towards the ship with enough force to cause minor damage. This would be good for stopping cappers as one hit changes their course and deals damage. That said, its still going to be very destructible since it won't be able to manuever with the same agility as a legionnaire or someone wearing a wing...
Another idea I just had for a vehicle that might work would be a slow flying hoverable craft that would have its pilot man a specialized gun that fires a beam that accelerates the target towards the ship with enough force to cause minor damage. This would be good for stopping cappers as one hit changes their course and deals damage. That said, its still going to be very destructible since it won't be able to manuever with the same agility as a legionnaire or someone wearing a wing...
How about "Teleport pods" or "portals" (just like in the game portal) ?
They can be considered as vehicle, because they send you from 1 point of the map to another.
And "Portals" can be used as a weapon : if you know the game "Portal", you can guess why : you create 1 portal (near the edge of the map) and when someone comes, you shoot another portal right on him and so he goes straight in the barriers and die ^.^
With teleport pods, we would have to revise cap routes as they could be entirely different ! (I don't think I need to explain ?).
They can be considered as vehicle, because they send you from 1 point of the map to another.
And "Portals" can be used as a weapon : if you know the game "Portal", you can guess why : you create 1 portal (near the edge of the map) and when someone comes, you shoot another portal right on him and so he goes straight in the barriers and die ^.^
With teleport pods, we would have to revise cap routes as they could be entirely different ! (I don't think I need to explain ?).
SeymourGore
Flatulent Cherub
I don't know if the portal gun would be the best fit for Legions. The first obstacle that came to my mind was players that would make a portal at their base, head over to the enemy base, grab the flag, then portal back home. Of course, you could put some restrictions on portals, say a maximum distance, or flags can't pass through portals, etc. I guess it could allow fast directional changes, but Overdriving already serves this purpose, so it seems a little redundant to me.
I'm warmer to the idea of 'teleport pods'. Say, there's a capturable midpoint base. If a team captures the base, they can then have access to the midfield base's assets and a teleporter could be one of the assets. There could also be a teleporter at the player's base, and when the midfield base is captured, the teleporters become active and allow travel back and forth. This would allow offense to travel more quickly, and allow defenders to defend this midpoint objective easier. I'd still recommend for the flag to not travel through this teleporter.
Volt Cruelerz
Legions Developer
While teleport pods as Seymour suggests would be something I'm in favor of, they still aren't vehicles...
I mean like, a catapult on wheels. You can move it, but not far enough to make it cheap and fling yourself into the flag.
I mean, you can have the surrounding terrain stop you from doing that, like Gorge's area behind the base is fully surrounded by terrain that a vehicle can't move past. The long launch time comes from moving, clicking, and then the animation which should be probably 2.5 seconds long.
I mean, you can have the surrounding terrain stop you from doing that, like Gorge's area behind the base is fully surrounded by terrain that a vehicle can't move past. The long launch time comes from moving, clicking, and then the animation which should be probably 2.5 seconds long.
Volt Cruelerz
Legions Developer
I still don't see why this wouldn't work better as a stationary base asset...
Diamondragan
New Member
Along the lines of equippable "vehicles" like the Wing, how about (since overdrive will never take you directly upward outside of a sentinel) a powerful, helicopter-like enclosed fan to give a powerful vertical thrust, much like the Sentinel anytime overdrive?
Since we call how Legionnaires move "Skiing", how about a "Jet Ski"?
That makes so much sense I'm practically speechless.
Since we call how Legionnaires move "Skiing", how about a "Jet Ski"?
Volt Cruelerz
Legions Developer
Along the lines of equippable "vehicles" like the Wing, how about (since overdrive will never take you directly upward outside of a sentinel) a powerful, helicopter-like enclosed fan to give a powerful vertical thrust, much like the Sentinel anytime overdrive?
Since we call how Legionnaires move "Skiing", how about a "Jet Ski"?That makes so much sense I'm practically speechless.
And why can't you just upjet?