Player health recharge

[sugardemon]

Let them talk Gheist. Its healthy discussion, even if it may be moot. Who knows? maybe someone will throw in an idea that can work with the new builds.

Maybe next time toss your warning about upcoming changes by trying to get players excited about the new content, rather than berating them for having ideas about the old stuff?

 

[sh4rkb1t3]

I'm in favour of recharging health instead of health pickups from kills.

1) If there was no recharging health, there would be no sniping.
2) It favours the good players, because after killing a noob and taking some damage, you can just duck out and recover the all damage, instead of having to face the noob again with a half-full health bar (or going back to base for a health pickup or commiting suicide). This assumes that any potential health drops from kills won't completely restore your health.
3) If there were health pickups, someone else, like a chaser, could pick it up instead of you (who made the kill). This would result in you having less health in the next fight... which could result in a noob spraying you with 100 chaingun bullets, 1 actually hitting you, and killing you.

The point is that recharging health keeps you in the action longer, is fairer, prevents chasers from healing, and allows for long-range combat.

 

[Triad]

I like the idea of the ammo stations recharging health much more than health packs or auto generation. I haven't read all the posts in this thread so I may just be repeating someone else, but here's why I think the ammo stations would be the best choice for health generation.

It's better than the health packs because it wouldn't be instant, and so a player couldn't gain health during a fight by moving over a health pack. They would have to finish the fight by killing the other player or players and then restock and recharge their health at a known location which brings me to my next point. Players will know where the damaged player is headed whether they ran away or killed someone. This, I think, solves the problem Whitewhale mentioned earlier about how someone you damaged but were too busy to pursue when they bailed can come back from hiding and kill you because you know where they are going and therefore you can judge how much time you have until they show up again. Plus, if you choose to pursue them after killing someone else right after they ran you don't have to play hide and seek.

 

[Whitewhale]

Serket's latest idea where the ammo recharge stations give health back instead.

love it

It favours the good players, because after killing a noob and taking some damage, you can just duck out and recover the all damage, instead of having to face the noob again with a half-full health bar (or going back to base for a health pickup or commiting suicide). This assumes that any potential health drops from kills won't completely restore your health.

then u arent as good as u think

 

[mausgang]

I like the idea of the ammo stations recharging health much more than health packs or auto generation. I haven't read all the posts in this thread so I may just be repeating someone else, but here's why I think the ammo stations would be the best choice for health generation.

It's better than the health packs because it wouldn't be instant, and so a player couldn't gain health during a fight by moving over a health pack. They would have to finish the fight by killing the other player or players and then restock and recharge their health at a known location which brings me to my next point. Players will know where the damaged player is headed whether they ran away or killed someone. This, I think, solves the problem Whitewhale mentioned earlier about how someone you damaged but were too busy to pursue when they bailed can come back from hiding and kill you because you know where they are going and therefore you can judge how much time you have until they show up again. Plus, if you choose to pursue them after killing someone else right after they ran you don't have to play hide and seek.

The current thoughts that I like the most for getting health back from an ammo station is that you go to the ammo station, get your ammo, and an invisible health pack that slowly regenerates your health a certain amount (ie: 35% of hitpoints) It wouldn't be instantaneous, and would regenerate slower while you ski and faster if you are just standing or running on the ground. This, I find, is the most tolerable change to the current health regeneration system.
Also, Gheist is one of those people who aren't afraid of treading on a few toes whenever he takes out his keyboard. There's a reason he has such a shocking avatar.
Also, Whitewhale, thanks for your input on ideas.

 

[Serket]

Actually maus, it seems you got mi idea a bit differently than what I had in mind, most lkely my fault for not being clear enough.
What I actually suggest is that health packs will be in the game, maybe you can carry one or two of them in a kind of inventory, these you can use in the field right after a fight or after taking some damage from falls or something else. Once you've used up all your health packs in the inventory you'd need to go to an ammo station to get new ones and get more ammo.
But your idea of the ammo stations acting as health recharge stations is nice as well, I do like it, I suggested the inventory type health packs because I thought they would be more convenient for when you don't want to go to a stations in order to heal, or when you can't.
What remains the same is that they heal you faster if you're not using your energy, in other words, just running or standing still.
Hope this is clears up any misunderstandings about my suggestion.

 

[Triad]

The current thoughts that I like the most for getting health back from an ammo station is that you go to the ammo station, get your ammo, and an invisible health pack that slowly regenerates your health a certain amount (ie: 35% of hitpoints) It wouldn't be instantaneous, and would regenerate slower while you ski and faster if you are just standing or running on the ground. This, I find, is the most tolerable change to the current health regeneration system.
Also, Gheist is one of those people who aren't afraid of treading on a few toes whenever he takes out his keyboard. There's a reason he has such a shocking avatar.
Also, Whitewhale, thanks for your input on ideas.

Why only 35%? And would it only heal one person at a time? That would be kind of annoying in my opinion because then the only real way of getting your health back would be to kill yourself and respawn. I think it should heal anyone next to it just like reloading does for players, but it shouldn't work if you are moving around.

Actually maus, it seems you got mi idea a bit differently than what I had in mind, most lkely my fault for not being clear enough.
What I actually suggest is that health packs will be in the game, maybe you can carry one or two of them in a kind of inventory, these you can use in the field right after a fight or after taking some damage from falls or something else. Once you've used up all your health packs in the inventory you'd need to go to an ammo station to get new ones and get more ammo.
But your idea of the ammo stations acting as health recharge stations is nice as well, I do like it, I suggested the inventory type health packs because I thought they would be more convenient for when you don't want to go to a stations in order to heal, or when you can't.
What remains the same is that they heal you faster if you're not using your energy, in other words, just running or standing still.
Hope this is clears up any misunderstandings about my suggestion.

Players would be able to use one in a fight if they stopped and used it quickly which I don't think is a good idea.

 

[Homingun]

exactly as a HoF specialist to be honest i often rage quit and found legions lame cause of the LO

its really annoying and totally unbalanced

i should have to go careening through the base looking for the healthing up LO? in my own base?

seriously thats just broken gameplay, anyone defending it i just cant understand..and saying "go kill him" is a joke then the flag is wide open

picture this...in comes LO...i almost kill him then he bails, i block capper...then back comes LO from side of base (which noone is watching) on FULL health (despite the fact i almost killed him), while i have little health from fighting/ODing cappers...LO kills me as HoF and scampers around base, waits for me to get back into position and rinse and repeat

awesome balance, that really encourages people to play d

You would seem to be depicting a imbalanced 1 v everyone scenario. What is the rest of your team doing I wonder?

Besides, you do have a thing called instant OD that blocks everyone that you can basically look at. Talk about imbalanced. With the 5 second respawn, it doesn't matter if HoFs die often cause with 2 of them you can block anything that basically comes from anywhere as long as you find those brilliant jet trails.

 

[mausgang]

Serket, I would have to agree with triad that if there were inventoried health packs, dueling could become broken. In most situations, a reload station is close enough to have an instant health pack system and recharge a certain percentage of health rather than something that's inventoried. That way, you can, if you need to, in the middle of a duel, attempt to get to a reload station, but that's a tactical decision that is harder to execute than switching inventories, so I could see more balance in the system. There are maps (blade run and mirage, for example) where the reload stations are harder to come by, but they come standard with the sniper towers and there's a reload station in the chamber over the tunnels, or right above the intersection on the hill that's over the tunnels. Either way, there are still convenient places to get health back after the duel, and in Mirage and Blade run, a skilled player could, if necessary, run away, and in those maps, there are so many places to run to.

 

[Deskari]

Health stations and health packs are not necessarily mutually exclusive elements in a game.

 

[Heartsong]

what? NO! DON'T MAKE IT LIKE TRIBES!

 

[RockeyRex]

<---

 

[Serket]

Players would be able to use one in a fight if they stopped and used it quickly which I don't think is a good idea.

Not quite because what I have in mind works almost at the same speed as the current health regen, kinda slow, it would be a little faster if you stand but you'd still need like 8 seconds to refill almost your entire health, since the healthpacks are not instantaneous health regen. While using energy from your pack the regen is very very slow the way I suggest it.
If you¿re worried about people stoppin g for a second in a fight, using a healthpack and getting all their health back like that it's by no means what I have in mind, like I said it takes almost the amount of time to recover health as the current stand-to-recover health system.

Serket, I would have to agree with triad that if there were inventoried health packs, dueling could become broken....

I suggest having a carriable health pack is for having an optiion close to the current health regen, and because I believe that way it could be a bit more flexible for new players as it would be for old players that are used to fight, beat the opponent and just stand to recover. This way they could just win a fight, use a health pack and start regaining their health again and if they have some time to spare they can go to an ammo station to refill their ammo as well as getting back the carriable health pack.

But please, do keep commenting guys.

 

[mausgang]

I guess what the problem I'm seeing is with the carriable health packs is that they would get used mid-duel. Mid-duel healing could go two ways. One, it heals a certain percentage of hitpoints and if the player gets damaged, then that is just ultimately subtracted from the healed percentage and the health will continue being replenished until the health pack is used. For example, an outrider is at 25% health and uses a health pack that heals 50%. He gets hit with a rocket that knocks him from 35% health to 2 percent health. Ten hitpoints were replenished, before the rocket hit, so now (let's say the outrider killed his assailant to death and no longer has ordinance flying at him) Instead of getting the full 50% health back, and being at 75%, the health pack keeps right on healing until it runs out, leaving him at 42% health and in serious need of another health pack, which will be left alone in this particular conversation. The other method is that the healing gets interrupted permanently once damage is taken during the healing process. This would encourage players not to waste a health pack in dangerous situations, and instead would finish the duel and then risk taking the health pack since then its only a probability that they will get hit with something rather than a near certainty. For example, the same outrider is at 42% health, and has gotten two things: a health pack and an enemy intent on his demise. The outrider, in a panic, hits the 'use health pack' button and gets 5% more health before a bullet hits him. Then, he has lost health and won't get any back, and dies as a result of his morale getting crushed, and the rockets.

 

[TheWimp]

i dont like how players just run away and hide the whole game behind my base.it rewards stupid players.

 

[sh4rkb1t3]

I think the "healing tool" idea is stupid, it's pretty much just having a second healthbar.

I think health powerups on death would be a good idea, but only in conjunction with the current system. And it would only be fair if the person who made the frag was able to pick up the health for the first 10 seconds or so. And it would be nice if the powerup wasn't subject to physics so it doesn't go flying across the map after you kill the guy.

As for healing stations at the base, that wouldn't be nessessary if there was recharging health. It would favour the defence too much.

 

[masterluso]

And it would be nice if the powerup wasn't subject to physics so it doesn't go flying across the map after you kill the guy.

Good idea, but you might want to knock it toward you with a rocket.... then what?

 

[Whitewhale]

i dont like how players just run away and hide the whole game behind my base.it rewards stupid players.

precisely

You would seem to be depicting a imbalanced 1 v everyone scenario. What is the rest of your team doing I wonder?

capping, playing LO and fighting everyone other than the people attacking me

noone will play hoF in pubs if it sux and isnt fun..simple

 

[sh4rkb1t3]

Good idea, but you might want to knock it toward you with a rocket.... then what?

There's no reason why the powerup couldn't both fall straight down to the ground after a kill, but also be able to be blown away by rockets.

But it's not a good idea anyway. You'd never be able to pick it up if everyone could blow it away from you. How annoying. Unless only your rockets affected it's position.

 

[mausgang]

The problem to health drops upon death available only to the killer is that it is still prone to opportunism. Even if used along with the current system, rage is a high potential, and rage is never a good thing. Either keep the current system, or use Serket's idea as a base to work on.