New hand grenades, the Skybolt and more
- Thread starter DeadGuy
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OmniNept
Actionaut
Riptack said:
I considered that point as I was writing my post, but eventually discarded it. The reason? As the hornet's retrieving the flag (or moving into shooting position), he/she isn't firing at other enemies. With any other class, that wouldn't matter, but with the sniper, it's significant. A base sniper specialist would disable any approaching enemies while the chaser returned; and I think that's better sniper usage (and worth the additional player). No other class can so effectively rout enemies before they present a threat. A midfield sniper specialist would do much the same, sniping the carrier as well as any enemies heading toward home base. The additional chaser would also return more quickly (on average), since they're assumed to be directly behind the carrier.
That means the sniper specialist fires significantly more shots a) because of its class advantage and b) because it's focusing on firing, instead of on rocket-jump returning. As for Frostbyte-esque maps small enough to anticipate return routes (and thus position yourself so that rocket jumps aren't required), you run the risk that carriers will simply toss home. And then you'll be wanting that chaser. Of course, that's assuming the enemy team doesn't alter their return routes.
Some scenarios assuming a base-defense sniper specialist:
Scenario 1: Your flag has been taken, and their flag is at home. You're going to want to send chasers and e-grabbers anyway, so no loss there.
Scenario 2: Your flag has been taken, and their flag has been taken. While you lose a defender to chasing, snipers are very capable duelers (in case you need to DM LO) and have the added benefit of tagging/destroying approaching enemies before they present a threat. Were you running a hornet midfield, you'd lose those preemptive attacks. Again, assuming both the base defender and midfield snipers hit their shots on the capper.
Scenario 3: Your flag is at home, and their flag has been taken. Here, a base sniper is definitely preferable. You want access to as many targets as possible.
Riptack said:
A twitch-shooting sniper is very difficult to dislodge/distract. I hit a large percentage of my carrier shots while being bounced around, so I disagree with your assessment (although I see where you're coming from). I suppose, though, the accuracy of your statement would depend very much on the efficacy of the sniper, and on the efficacy of the defense as a whole. There's not much LO can do after having been hit once or twice, especially when facing proficient chain, and I certainly didn't encounter difficulties with an Omni D.
I also agree entirely with your qualification that intelligence must be considered. Sniping requires far more tactical awareness than is typically assumed. And this community can be particularly stupid.
@Anak: I don't think arguments are ever worthless or stupid, so long as the conversation's kept coherent. At the end of it all, there's always something to be learned. And, to be honest, having to think and write is a pretty good use of your internet time.
RiPTaCk
Member
This point is a bit vague because it really depends on the sniper itself. And not many snipers are actually good duelers but that's another discussion.
For the rest I completely agree with your point of view. It is created on specific situations, rich in details and personal preferences I guess, but it also goes into a higly competitive tactic that is not going to be used any time soon.
Hellsniper
New Member
The reduced fire rate was clearly a big blow to LRII and I'm glad there are at least two people who agrees with this, and the 'buff' to minimum damage may not actually be very useful. Like Nept pointed out a sniper can position himself in an optimal position to not only gun down cappers but also incoming chasers. It wasn't necessary to reduce maximum damage for an unknown increase of minimum damage. The devs may think the old fire rate was overpowered but I really don't think it is.
Noober
Member
Hornet on outraider is great, but i can't agree a bit with hellsniper, the decrease of the LR max damage is meaningful for standing snipers.. especially on medium/large map like zenith and elegiac where capper can easy grab the flag and run away at full life without a body block defence.
Hellsniper
New Member
well, I actually think the decrease in maximum damage is of miniscule importance to snipers in general compared to the decrease in the fire rate. for 'standing snipers' with a good aim the old LRII can ensure the capper is hit at least once(though usually twice if you try to hit the capper while he's incoming, although most incoming cappers who get hit get subsequently destroyed by normal defence) before he is too far out of site (at this point I usually start chasing), which makes the jobs of chasers much easier. nowadays due to the increased reload time sometimes it's difficult to ensure 1 shot before the cappers get to far away(ie damage >30%) and like you said, on small maps with few capable chasers a capper who plans his routes could return to base very easily or in the case of large maps the consequences are even worse. the new hornet is better than the old one but that's because the old hornet was frankly terrible.
thank you sir, I am getting tired of people attempt to make fun of/troll arguments as soon as they appear.
Disci
Old man
Now if we could change people too...
MJ1284
Member
Epiclight858
Member
..I guess that just leaves me requesting a rooster with boost handnades..
OMGoodness
New Member
I really like this update. Permanently playing with the new hornet loadout. ;-)
anak
VIP
I still feel like it's overly powerful against sentinels. The damage is tolerable, but the knockback (it's the same as the RL, right?) is extremely irritating when i'm playing against dedicated skybolt LO who can aim. is there any way you could reduce the impulse's effect on heavies, or is their a weight/mass value that does that already?
radiofriendly
Member
I raised an eyebrow over the the boost grenade in combination with skybolt. For some reason the boost seems to be -a lot- less powerful with a skybolt combo than a rl combo. This appears to make sense from a developers perspective (force applied would be relative to the damage done) but it makes no sense from a players perspective. It's the nade that does the boosting; the thing that triggers should be irrelevant for the boost you're going to get.
I'm not sure if this low power SB combo is intended or not.
If it is, then it would make sense to change it in my opinion. Right now the SB boost combo is flimsy, annoying and rarely ever worth it. Removing the combo possibility would make the SB more focussed towards its apparent intended role: a mid-air killing rifle.
If it isn't, then please keep it coherent and make the combo give the same amount of boost whatever triggers it. It's already a bit fiddly to account for boost combos behaviour with 3 different weight classes. It's double annoying (and, as I mentioned before, counter-intuitive) to also have to take the trigger weapon power into account.
I'm not sure if this low power SB combo is intended or not.
If it is, then it would make sense to change it in my opinion. Right now the SB boost combo is flimsy, annoying and rarely ever worth it. Removing the combo possibility would make the SB more focussed towards its apparent intended role: a mid-air killing rifle.
If it isn't, then please keep it coherent and make the combo give the same amount of boost whatever triggers it. It's already a bit fiddly to account for boost combos behaviour with 3 different weight classes. It's double annoying (and, as I mentioned before, counter-intuitive) to also have to take the trigger weapon power into account.
DeadGuy
Legions Developer
The combos do the same force and damage with any weapon that can trigger it. Only the sniper and chaingun are excluded from creating combos (for now). The reason you might think there is a difference between the Skybolt and Rocket combo is since the Skybolt travels faster you must time your grenade tossing+firing a bit more accurately. Often you might miss or the grenade is farther away from you when it gets struck by the bolt because of this.
radiofriendly
Member
That's really surprising tbh. Thanks for the heads-up.
Aki
Member
Imagine a duel between two ORs, one with RL, one with SB. They each fire as fast as they are able, but they're both noobs and miss all 20 shots. The dude with the RL will have ammo still when the dude with the SB is empty. That's kindy shitty, imo. inb4 they switch to CG and whoever has best ping wins blah blah blah.
"Staying power" is the phrase to describe what we're talking about, here. Right now, the RL has a bit higher staying power partly because it has longer before it is out of ammo. In a more practical scenario, the guy with SB is still more likely to fire more shots per fight than with the RL; hence, a midfielder with RL can theoretically stay in midfield longer before having to find an ammo box or suicide.
I suggest that the SB ammo be adjusted accordingly. Maybe only to 25 shots--that's for devs to figure out. But I still liked 35 better
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