My rule and I hope you learn it

[WildFire]

What needs to happen is stat tracking, and from there, skill ratings can be found. The purpose of this is that so the combination of skill ratings added up.

so lets say a team of 5 people with skill ratings of:

50 + 97 + 20 + 11 + 1 = 179 / 5 = 35.8

So therefore the skill ratings of both teams would need to be as close as possible. At the moment, the teams are randomly generated.

 

[Jack]

Pubs will always be pretty bad. It's just on a relative scale. If you really care about winning, you should be playing pickups.

I usually just screw around in pubs or practice routes. I always find it amusing when people take them seriously, and when people seriously use them to gauge others' skills. "Dang, that guy is really good because he always snipes me, even though I am the only offense on Gorge and coming in at 90km/h".

 

[Outlawl]

Pubs will always be pretty bad. It's just on a relative scale. If you really care about winning, you should be playing pickups.

No.

I, for one, like pubs. I enjoy playing in a non-stressed atmosphere where I can let loose and play outside my comfort zone, unlike that of pugs where the game environment is usually a bit more tense and I constantly have people breathing down my neck.

While you believe pubs to be bad, doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does. Whether the pub is "bad" or not depends on personal opinion, like me saying - for someone who has only played the game for just one month (as you said in the Most Improved Players thread), you're coming across as self-absorbed, egotistical douche.

Claiming that pubs are bad is neither beneficial nor helpful to anyone. Rather, instead of complaining about how bad they are why don't you help to bring up the level of play in them by joining them? All too often have I seen people complaining on the forums about problems they themselves can actually fix.

I usually just screw around in pubs or practice routes. I always find it amusing when people take them seriously, and when people seriously use them to gauge others' skills. "Dang, that guy is really good because he always snipes me, even though I am the only offense on Gorge and coming in at 90km/h".

This is just ridiculous, claiming that you "don't try" in pubs is stupid. You play the pubs as you would a pug, since after-all, thats the only way you're going to improve. No one plays a game at 80% OPTIMUM POTENTIAL, you can't tone down your aim or how well you ski to the level of seriousness you want to have, you play the game as you normally would. Albeit, sometimes you concentrate more in pugs than you would pubs, that still doesn't mean you shouldn't take pubs as seriously.

Also, rather than regarding pubs as crap, and using them to fool around, why don't you take the time to play them as you would a pug? I mean, would that not yield the skill-increase that you so desire? And as a result encourage others to join pubs or up their performance? Just a thought.

 

[Vinzyboy23]

Hmmm, Since HellzHere's rule is a bit ummm.... crazy, but it's a PuB, and I'm ALWAYS in the losing team and that should not pose too much of a problem for me.

Edit: Also on PuGs, I think I heard someone did noticed that someone switched to the losing team.

 

[Dacil]

How exactly is it fun if the teams are so unbalanced, you can get the flag easily and get to base without taking much dmg...

Sure yea people have this mentatily, I want to have fun....but its not fun really if u think bout it

people have different opinions as to what's fun, you can question my idea of fun all you want and all i'll do is shrug and go "it just is to me" probably b/c i dont care or expect things to be orderly in a pub

 

[MJ1284]

Since half the community (most europeans anyway) knows my opinion on teambalance on Public games I won't delve too deep into the subject itself. However, there are couple things I'd like to notify:

1. As Hellz stated in OP, most people can't arse themselves to balance teams no matter how "professional" they are (note quotation marks!). Public matches are no PUGs, that's for sure, but that doesn't mean you need to do your utmost best to screw up other players fun, wheter it's team imbalance by lack of interest (team stacking) or ignorant attitude towards Public games in general (6vs6 match that's 7-0 & 15 minutes remaining but you just don't feel like switching).

2. Newbloods aren't the bane of your existence, they're new people who are potentially interested of the game you like playing for christ sake! Don't shoo them away & swat them like they were flies, observe their behaviour and gameplay before making any rash decisions. Sure, if there's a loudmouth obnoxious person arsing around it's fine to set him/her straight but do you really want to scare off potential new legionnaires?

3. Regarding Nr. 1, don't stare blindly at team numbers. Ookay, so both teams have 6 players.. Alpha has Disci, Tomstoiler, pullute, RiPTaCk, eldermimmmi & Dimitryy.. Beta has bunch of people you've never seen or heard of before. Who wins this thrilling match? TAKE A F***ING GUESS!

4. Regarding newbloods and Public matches, the Legions community ain't that huge, killing new player's interest kills part of Legions itself. Why does Legions have small community? Because 85% of Public games are pain in the buttocks! Why can't you find enough people for PUGs? Because there are no players! *

There I said it.

* Guess how many veterans complain how Legions is dying out because "nobody wants to play this game"?

 

[Jack]

No.

While you believe pubs to be bad, doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does. Whether the pub is "bad" or not depends on personal opinion, like me saying - for someone who has only played the game for just one month (as you said in the Most Improved Players thread), you're coming across as self-absorbed, egotistical douche.

Claiming that pubs are bad is neither beneficial nor helpful to anyone. Rather, instead of complaining about how bad they are why don't you help to bring up the level of play in them by joining them? All too often have I seen people complaining on the forums about problems they themselves can actually fix.

This is just ridiculous, claiming that you "don't try" in pubs is stupid. You play the pubs as you would a pug, since after-all, thats the only way you're going to improve. No one plays a game at 80% OPTIMUM POTENTIAL, you can't tone down your aim or how well you ski to the level of seriousness you want to have, you play the game as you normally would. Albeit, sometimes you concentrate more in pugs than you would pubs, that still doesn't mean you shouldn't take pubs as seriously.

Also, rather than regarding pubs as crap, and using them to fool around, why don't you take the time to play them as you would a pug? I mean, would that not yield the skill-increase that you so desire? And as a result encourage others to join pubs or up their performance? Just a thought.

To a certain degree, I'm playing devil's advocate.

And people are entitled voice their opinions. But wait, it's an opinion how bad pubs are, and yet on the other hand, somehow, you are telling me that every player MUST be trying in a pub? Talk about hypocrisy in imposing your views. I remember screwing around in Tribes all the time, whether it was finding a glitch in the terrain, or doing double/triple passes. Legions is very much what T1 eventually deteriorated to. 1 usually full public server, and pickup games every night. Even a 30th percentile PU player could get 15+ capper kills in the public server (aptly named, "Shithole"). At 90th percentile, you get 30+. Every Pub-->PU player was 5x better after playing 1/5 the amount of time in PUs than pubs.

It's simple ROI. I can try home d against the random pubstar (and all the non-stars), or I can try it against Unknown. Now do that for a month. Tell me who is better.

Not all of us have the time or burning desire to teach AJ3241 "how to MA". And I have brought other T1 players in (4), though since they're busy with other things, I think they've only played a total of an hour or so. Even so, they're better than ~40% of pub players (e.g- first player hasn't missed a nade jump ever, and with me on euro server, we were outdueling 3-4 others in minutes). I'd rather invest a couple hours in him, and him invest a week, and be at the 25th percentile in PUs, than the equivalent amount of time in AJ3241, and see him ask, "Oh, but hw do u ski?????????"

You are welcome to do the former* if that really appeals to you, more power to you. imo, working on an individual level is the fastest way to burn out; you have to look at a systemic change. As I've suggested in the past, the easiest way to raise average skill level is to expose people to PUs where the threshold for entry is low (no ts3, viewable server to public, obvious and visible info for prior to a pickup).

 

[stefygraff]

your rule is decent, but its yours for keeping.

you cant force anyone to swap teams just because the other team is losing...

 

[Disci]

your rule is decent, but its yours for keeping.

you cant force anyone to swap teams just because the other team is losing...

He can't but I think it's still something that would be nice to see people to do more. Even teams just makes more interesting gaming events, like long standoffs with close returns and e-grabs right before cap etc. It's simply more fun for everyone.

 

[Mahidhar]

I don't know why I should voluntarily change. I never change unless the teams are unbalanced only by numbers, and not because of points or skill. I don't even change, when my friends are playing on the other team, because I know I would disrupt the player numbers. As for how the game went on before me, I don't care. Why should I concern myself with things like balance of skill and points? Most players joining a server, only come for a couple of good games, and leave. They will/should most likely never concern themselves with team balance, unless there's been an alteration in the game, by other players. It is the game's job to to provide balance, not the players'.

In my opinion, there should be a system where, the server itself does all these calculations and provides a slot for the new player. If you are just joining the server, and the game is 7-3, while both the teams are even in number of players, the server itself should decide where the player goes.

This can also be done by combining the total points earned by players in the game of either teams + number of captures of each team, and comparing them. This would yield much better results, I presume, but of course, testing it first is mandatory.

In any case, that's all you can really ask for, because people don't give crap about your rule and your thoughts, unless it's advantageous for them in anyway. As others have said before me, follow your own rules.

 

[Chi-Ro]

yes you should switch, dont expect anything from anyone else tho...its the rule of life basically

As stated before, its great that you want to switch to the losing team, but you can't expect other to follow in your foot steps.

I have to disagree there. You very well can expect people to do the right thing, you just shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't happen.

Also, as far as people not switching, I think a lot of it has to do with the winning team not realizing by how much they're winning. it's 10 times harder to see a team imbalance when you're on the winning side than the losing. So most people (on the winning side) wouldn't even notice until you say something. And on top of that, a lot of people don't read chat even if you do say something.

So yes, it's still their faults, it's just not always intentional.

 

[MJ1284]

@ Mahidhar:

You can keep up with that long as you want, I'm fine with it long as you're not grieving ingame. But don't expect earning much respect with that "Shove it up yer hooter!" attitude.
Player quality > player quantity, if it takes 5vs7 to keep things interesting then I'd rather see that instead of 6vs6.

 

[HellzHere]

your rule is decent, but its yours for keeping.

you cant force anyone to swap teams just because the other team is losing...

Am not trying to, but however again that game, half of them were pros or upcoming pros, and most of them were on the winning team like me, but I was the only one that switched...Again these people are pros or upcoming pros,and they dont switch when clearly the game fails. Sure I was not forcing them to switch, you mis think my words, but I was suprised that they didn't switch. I didn't expect the noobs to switch...but when a pro doesn't switch..it shows so much about people in this game, and tbh they are not pro one single bit even if they can MA be a 100 times

 

[discord]

Player quality > player quantity, if it takes 5vs7 to keep things interesting then I'd rather see that instead of 6vs6.

This is a very good point. One of the best pubs I have played in quite some time was only kept interesting because of a numerical advantage. I was on the underdog team, which fluctuated from 4-6 players (mostly stayed at 4) during the course of the game, while the other team bounced from 7-9. It was actually a close game only due to their warm body advantage, I believe the final score was in the 10-8 area.

Throughout the majority of the game, two of my teammates were whining about teams. Why do people join a server and go to the obviously outnumbering team? The world will never know. I'm glad they did though, because it at least kept things challenging for that map and allowed the two of us that were communicating to pull off a rather amusing win.

 

[Outlawl]

To a certain degree, I'm playing devil's advocate.

In some ways, yes, you are correct and I have to agree with you, however, using the excuse "pubs are bad and will always be bad" as a means to ignore them altogether is one of the large contributors to the problem.

And people are entitled voice their opinions. But wait, it's an opinion how bad pubs are, and yet on the other hand, somehow, you are telling me that every player MUST be trying in a pub? Talk about hypocrisy in imposing your views. I remember screwing around in Tribes all the time, whether it was finding a glitch in the terrain, or doing double/triple passes.

Earlier you said that you use pubs just to "screw around or practice routes," essentially focusing on yourself with a blatant disregard for your team as a whole. Is that not just as bad as griefing or team-killing? The only difference I can think of is that instead of killing your teammates, you're forcing them to play a man down, which not only puts the whole team at a disadvantage but also restricts others players who want to play from joining the server. Not to mention it just pisses everyone off.

Just to rehash, the reason I said all players MUST be trying in pubs is because there is no dial/on-off switch that dictates how much skill a player is putting into the game, it's just logically impossible to retard your skill to a level of your choosing, using the excuse "Eh, I wasn't trying anyway" doesn't benefit anyone, instead it just angers your teammates since they have to play with this guy who is just doing a half-ass job.

The opinion I voiced is one held by the whole legions community, I assume all players are trying in pubs is because thats what I envision the majority of normal legions players to do, since thats how you get a good game. You cannot be expected to account for griefers and those who deteriorate the quality of games, because, as one of the perks of having a small-personal community, our admins can take of them easily and quickly. The only opinion I'm imposing on you is one that will benefit the community and yourself as a whole, it could be worse.

Legions is very much what T1 eventually deteriorated to. 1 usually full public server, and pickup games every night. Even a 30th percentile PU player could get 15+ capper kills in the public server (aptly named, "Shithole"). At 90th percentile, you get 30+. Every Pub-->PU player was 5x better after playing 1/5 the amount of time in PUs than pubs.

I can't speak on this as I don't have any prior experience with T1 nor is there any evidence to really back these claims. Though, it is an opinion that you think pickup players are five-times better than pubs players.

It's simple ROI. I can try home d against the random pubstar (and all the non-stars), or I can try it against Unknown. Now do that for a month. Tell me who is better.

This is assuming Single Cause, there are too many factors that can effect ones progression of skill to make this argument valid. For example, past experience with other video games, abundance of practice time, and/or abnormally high reaction time/reflexes.

Not all of us have the time or burning desire to teach AJ3241 "how to MA". And I have brought other T1 players in (4), though since they're busy with other things, I think they've only played a total of an hour or so. Even so, they're better than ~40% of pub players (e.g- first player hasn't missed a nade jump ever, and with me on euro server, we were outdueling 3-4 others in minutes). I'd rather invest a couple hours in him, and him invest a week, and be at the 25th percentile in PUs, than the equivalent amount of time in AJ3241, and see him ask, "Oh, but hw do u ski?????????"

You are welcome to do the former* if that really appeals to you, more power to you. imo, working on an individual level is the fastest way to burn out;

Nor should you be expected to help out new players every chance you get. But if you're taking enough time out of your day to post on the forums about how much you hate pubs and their inhabitants, you might as well go help AJ3241 since complaining about your problems here sure as hell isn't going to get you anything. You might as well make good use of your time.

you have to look at a systemic change. As I've suggested in the past, the easiest way to raise average skill level is to expose people to PUs where the threshold for entry is low (no ts3, viewable server to public, obvious and visible info for prior to a pickup).

But then that gets rid of exclusivity of pugs that their frequenters enjoy so. You pride yourself so much in separating the skill gap into pug players and pub players that it's created an impenetrable brick-wall between veterans and noobs. Realistically, introducing an easier more accessible pug system would only push the current pug players back into their private games so they don't have to play pugs with noobs, repeating the problem happening now (pub noobs vs pug vets).

 

[Jack]

Holy hyperbole!

Earlier you said that you use pubs just to "screw around or practice routes," essentially focusing on yourself with a blatant disregard for your team as a whole. Is that not just as bad as griefing or team-killing? The only difference I can think of is that instead of killing your teammates, you're forcing them to play a man down, which not only puts the whole team at a disadvantage but also restricts others players who want to play from joining the server. Not to mention it just pisses everyone off.

Just to rehash, the reason I said all players MUST be trying in pubs is because there is no dial/on-off switch that dictates how much skill a player is putting into the game, it's just logically impossible to retard your skill to a level of your choosing, using the excuse "Eh, I wasn't trying anyway" doesn't benefit anyone, instead it just angers your teammates since they have to play with this guy who is just doing a half-ass job.

It depends on what your central objective is in pubs. Mine changes on the temperature and whether I found a lucky penny on the ground. Most of the time it's to have fun, in whatever way that manifests, within certain bounds. If that means only running routes, damn right, I will run routes. If there's a particular person on the other team I dislike, and I feel it's more fun to target him than to play the flag, damn right, I will do that instead of trying to win the game. If I only want to hold down chaingun because I want to practice it, but that leads me to be more inefficient in game, damn right, I will practice chaingun. If I want to switch to the losing team, I'm entitled to that as well. Piss everyone off? Hardly. For the average pickup player to do so, it would still make them more effective than a pub player. Plus, the pub player isn't aware enough to even know that they're doing it.

I have zero qualms with anyone doing something similar in a pub. In a pickup, I can understand some annoyance.

The opinion I voiced is one held by the whole legions community, I assume all players are trying in pubs is because thats what I envision the majority of normal legions players to do, since thats how you get a good game. You cannot be expected to account for griefers and those who deteriorate the quality of games, because, as one of the perks of having a small-personal community, our admins can take of them easily and quickly. The only opinion I'm imposing on you is one that will benefit the community and yourself as a whole, it could be worse.

This just in: you are not allowed to play Legions Overdrive drunk. You are not allowed to play while on the phone or listen to music, because that will deteriorate the quality of games You are not allowed to play the game for yourself; you must do your utmost to win every game; in fact, if you don't, our admins will take care of you easily and quickly.

I can't speak on this as I don't have any prior experience with T1 nor is there any evidence to really back these claims. Though, it is an opinion that you think pickup players are five-times better than pubs players.

ty hyperbole and twist (hint: relative to their earlier selves, they were 5x better in 1/5 the time). This can be backed up by anyone who has competitively played LT in T1 (disci, binswees, sharp, etc). There is plenty of evidence (see: any pub in T1 with a pickup player in it playing against non pickup players). I will guarantee you that unless there is a pickup/decent clan player playing defense on the other side in a pub, unknown, rock, dimitryy, homingun will grab on every route they run.

This is assuming Single Cause, there are too many factors that can effect ones progression of skill to make this argument valid. For example, past experience with other video games, abundance of practice time, and/or abnormally high reaction time/reflexes.

ty twist. You can just say I'm right you know... Obviously with the hypothetical you would hold everything else constant...

Nor should you be expected to help out new players every chance you get. But if you're taking enough time out of your day to post on the forums about how much you hate pubs and their inhabitants, you might as well go help AJ3241 since complaining about your problems here sure as hell isn't going to get you anything. You might as well make good use of your time.

ty hyperbole and twist. More like an initial 2 minute post that simply said they were "bad". The well-being of pubs is more for the game than for myself. I've probably played about 5 hours total of pubs after my first week of playing. I simply avoid them since they aren't worth the time in terms of fun factor or gaining skill factor.

But then that gets rid of exclusivity of pugs that their frequenters enjoy so. You pride yourself so much in separating the skill gap into pug players and pub players that it's created an impenetrable brick-wall between veterans and noobs. Realistically, introducing an easier more accessible pug system would only push the current pug players back into their private games so they don't have to play pugs with noobs, repeating the problem happening now (pub noobs vs pug vets).

ty hyperbole and twist.
So... you advocate not opening PUs, correct? Or you do, and for some reason you are parroting detractors' points and somehow putting me in with them? Remember that guide for pickups? What? A more accessible PU system would most likely have the top players only want to play in A-level pickups, and have the mid-top players willing to play in A and B level pickups. Allowing the mid players to play in B and C level pickups, and allowing noobs to crossover into C and D level pickups. On an individual level, people would obviously jump or play down, but as an overall trend, it would turn out that way. Overall, average skill would go up, and there would be more "social/talent mobility", especially since at a certain point, there are diminishing returns with time spent and "skill" gained. Again, this has already happened in T1, and data from there is pretty portable.

 

[Jack]

See: http://forums.legionsoverdrive.com/threads/pug-experience.1510/

When average people come to that conclusion, you have a systemic change, rather than an individual change. Which one is the better strategy to improving player quality?

 

[skypredator]

It says that the player either doesn't care, is lazy or just wants the map to end.

I've been in pickup games where my team was "failing epicly", despite having teams which were very even.

I think an automated system would work out. Like Combat Arms. This way there would be no more bickering, and at least it would be a slightly more viable solution than having the problem of unbalanced teams as far as size, leaving individual skill level to run the gauntlet and proclaim the winner of each game. For example, if Mabel and Freeman were kicking ass on Team Alpha (even though they always do, no matter what team), and phanny was on Team Alpha also, the next game would place Mabel or Freeman on Team Beta, just to even it out, based on score averages. Just throwing my two cents in. :/

 

[OmniNept]

Jack, you've got Shyamalan on the brain. Outlawl, you're not noticing his interpretation failures (brought on largely by your writing). Ease up. Were you both emotionally disengaged, you might notice that you're debating using different definitions – hence all the (perceived) strawmen and twisted meanings.


Here's an example:

I usually just screw around in pubs or practice routes. I always find it amusing when people take them seriously, and when people seriously use them to gauge others' skills.

Outlawl, you incorrectly interpreted that sentence as Jack screwing over other players in pubs, either by not trying, or by running routes without regard to the flag. You then responded overly aggressively with:

This is just ridiculous, claiming that you "don't try" in pubs is stupid. You play the pubs as you would a pug, since after-all, thats the only way you're going to improve. No one plays a game at 80% OPTIMUM POTENTIAL, you can't tone down your aim or how well you ski to the level of seriousness you want to have, you play the game as you normally would. Albeit, sometimes you concentrate more in pugs than you would pubs, that still doesn't mean you shouldn't take pubs as seriously.

What Outlawl meant, as he later clarified, is that pub players don't typically play poorly, just for kicks. There's no effort switch flicked to 30% upon entering a pub server; people may not play “pug serious”, but they'll typically play somewhat seriously.


Jack, you misinterpreted Outlawl's posts as providing pub players with one option: Try or Get Banned. Understandable, given his writing.


But look! You've also written poorly constructed, ambiguous sentences:

Even a 30th percentile PU player could get 15+ capper kills in the public server (aptly named, "Shithole"). At 90th percentile, you get 30+. Every Pub-->PU player was 5x better after playing 1/5 the amount of time in PUs than pubs.

Alone, the preceding sentence may've been taken as intended – as “relative to their earlier selves” - but combined with the first sentence and its implications (that public servers are shitholes, with *chocolate cookies* players), a different interpretation is suggested.


Ironically (dare I say, hypocritically?!!!1), when the sentence was misinterpreted, you saw twists and responded as passive aggressively as possible!

ty hyperbole and twist (hint: relative to their earlier selves, they were 5x better in 1/5 the time).

The both of you were debating pleasantly, if poorly, a post or two ago. Now, though, it's deteriorating into Buhlitz-style sentences.


Effort in pub play shouldn't be up for debate. It's very simple. Most vet players don't exert maximum effort during pubs, at least not in terms of position play; however, they don't intentionally suck, either – especially when it comes to 1 v 1 fights. Noone wants to lose, after all. This sort of play is fine and expected.
At the same time, if you're intent on contributing nothing, you shouldn't be playing. If you want to run routes, or duel a single adversary, go to an empty server – there are always plenty of those. If you're mindlessly practicing routes in a pub, you're simply hurting your team and being a JackAss.




What is up for debate is whether pugs provide greater opportunity for progression than do pubs. Jack, you're throwing around a lot of useless anecdotal evidence and false precision:

ty hyperbole and twist (hint: relative to their earlier selves, they were 5x better in 1/5 the time). This can be backed up by anyone who has competitively played LT in T1 (disci, binswees, sharp, etc). There is plenty of evidence (see: any pub in T1 with a pickup player in it playing against non pickup players).

Even a 30th percentile PU player could get 15+ capper kills in the public server (aptly named, "Shithole"). At 90th percentile, you get 30+. Every Pub-->PU player was 5x better after playing 1/5 the amount of time in PUs than pubs.

And in case you're unaware:
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/volvofal.html
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/fakeprec.html


You're also oversimplifying skill development by relegating it to the realm of positional play. You know that cg'ing you were practicing in pubs? That's skill development. Those routes? Skill development. Weaponry and dueling skills are better practiced in pubs, as you yourself admitted, because you're not irritating teammates and because you're able to focus/experiment without having to worry about flag play. And I imagine there's not a whole lot of route improvisation happening in pugs, where your team stands to lose.




If we must get into the anecdotal, I, being a top-tier competitive Legions player, am in a better position than yourself. I avoided pugs “like the plague”, as did most of my members. (In fact, I think only Filt3r played them on a regular basis, for only he was able to tolerate the TeamSpeak community with any regularity). I was an excellent player and widely regarded as the top duelist and sniper; I also led the top-ranked NA team.


Amazingly, I managed without pugs. Now, I know – you'll leap immediately to the idea that I would've improved more rapidly with pug play, but no, probably not. I, and my entire team, for that matter, improved rapidly in pubs and in practice – and we improved rapidly because of our opposition: each other.


Because opposition is really what it's about, isn't it? I could call 8 Omni into a server, 4 per team, and have an excellent pub. I could do the same with 2, or 4. And we could do that at any time, irrespective of whether enough people were on TS for pugs.


Pubs, just like pugs, are what you make them. If vets are intent on only screwing around, then pubs'll devolve into skilless messes. All it takes, though, is a handful of people playing properly for a fun, challenging pub to commence.


This [sic] can be backed up by anyone who has played competitively with me (Filt3r, Deskari, Xpress, Ragol, Slyboots, Outlawl, Floks, Shade, Sketch, Zwei, Strife, Detta, Van, Kryst, Ucan, Sid, Roach).

 

[Jack]

For someone who is trying to take the arbiter/holier-than-thou role, you are astoundingly imperceptive and imprecise yourself.

What Outlawl meant, as he later clarified, is that pub players don't typically play poorly, just for kicks. There's no effort switch flicked to 30% upon entering a pub server; people may not play “pug serious”, but they'll typically play somewhat seriously.


Jack, you misinterpreted Outlawl's posts as providing pub players with one option: Try or Get Banned. Understandable, given his writing.

No, it was sarcasm . Please tell me how I could possibly have made that clearer without putting a [/sarcasm] to spell it out.


Alone, the preceding sentence may've been taken as intended – as “relative to their earlier selves” - but combined with the first sentence and its implications (that public servers are shitholes, with *chocolate cookies* players), a different interpretation is suggested.

It was slightly unclear, but common sense ought to have kicked in. (and you mean latter).


At the same time, if you're intent on contributing nothing, you shouldn't be playing. If you want to run routes, or duel a single adversary, go to an empty server – there are always plenty of those. If you're mindlessly practicing routes in a pub, you're simply hurting your team and being a JackAss.

That'd be fine, except one server is Gorge, and the rest are moonshine. I'd be happy to do that otherwise, and I'm sure plenty others would as well.

What is up for debate is whether pugs provide greater opportunity for progression than do pubs. Jack, you're throwing around a lot of useless anecdotal evidence and false precision:

Irony++. Okay, remind me how you think a pub and a pub that has your team (because you called them into the server) on opposite sides are remotely similar? And now you are going to use that latter definition to set up the rest of your argument, rofl. If you noticed, I said, "decent clan member" earlier.



Even a 30th percentile PU player could get 15+ capper kills in the public server (aptly named, "Shithole"). At 90th percentile, you get 30+. Every Pub-->PU player was 5x better after playing 1/5 the amount of time in PUs than pubs.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/fakeprec.html

Wait, so you actually think it wasn't remarkably obvious that those were made up statistics? Really?

Really?

Now that you realize how obvious that is, think about the intent of them. As I said, you can talk to any T1 LT pickup player, and they'll have the same exact story. And it's incredibly obvious - night and day. People who've been terrible for years (literally), get much much better after playing pickups for a month.

You're also oversimplifying skill development by relegating it to the realm of positional play. You know that cg'ing you were practicing in pubs? That's skill development. Those routes? Skill development. Weaponry and dueling skills are better practiced in pubs, as you yourself admitted, because you're not irritating teammates and because you're able to focus/experiment without having to worry about flag play. And I imagine there's not a whole lot of route improvisation happening in pugs, where your team stands to lose.

What are you arguing? I completely agree. Why else would I only use a cg in a server? It's a fun way to get better, since playing standard CTF in a pub is not worth full effort. Outlawl's point, which I was making an obviously sarcastic remark to, was that unless you're playing completely seriously about CTF, you shouldn't be playing a pub. That's ridiculous.

If we must get into the anecdotal, I, being a top-tier competitive Legions player, am in a better position than yourself. I avoided pugs “like the plague”, as did most of my members. (In fact, I think only Filt3r played them on a regular basis, for only he was able to tolerate the TeamSpeak community with any regularity). I was an excellent player and widely regarded as the top duelist and sniper; I also led the top-ranked NA team.


Pubs, just like pugs, are what you make them. If vets are intent on only screwing around, then pubs'll devolve into skilless messes. All it takes, though, is a handful of people playing properly for a fun, challenging pub to commence.

So, essentially you absolutely agree with me, but you just want to make it clear that you are a top player too. That's cool .