A big post which was off-topic, but had some good points
- Thread starter Strife
- Start date
Daphinicus
Private Tester
Really? I don't. Darn all you smurfers!
Mabeline
God-Tier
Unfortunately I can't do that kind of analysis right now. I'll see what I can find out, but don't expect it instantly.
Heartsong
Member
Redvan
Private Tester
yeah, i was gonna say this, but, beat me to it
I have 4 accounts total, smurf and regular.
Chi-Ro
Private Tester
yeah, i was gonna say this, but, beat me to it
I have 4 accounts total, smurf and regular.
Between that and MJ's question about how many actually keep playing this very hard unforgiving game to become regulars, it pretty much drives that stat into dust. Just sayin...
Pointless stats are pointless. No one expects Legions to be growing right now, the point was aimed at the future.
RainPilot
stinky bear
I only have about 3 but I've had around 10 names. All of them simple and non-offensive, I've seen a number of accounts with uhh some nasty names.yeah, i was gonna say this, but, beat me to it
I have 4 accounts total, smurf and regular.
57thRomance
Member
I AM MY OWN SMURF
*cuts himself*
*cuts himself*
Simply put, before you go marketing and advertising, you need to make the barrier to entry MUCH lower.
Relative to 99% of games, Legions has a high skill curve before it becomes "fun". However, there are a number of ways to lower the barrier of entry for random people. All these ideas for new reticles, new maps, random new features, are not going to make the slightest difference in number of people who join and number of people the game retains. No one joins or quits a game because of no-fog, so why worry about it now?
First of all, I'd write a troubleshooting FAQ for installation. It should be pretty easy, since there aren't many errors, but it shouldn't be a requirement for someone who wants to play to have to install mIRC or TS3. I recall that I was launching the wrong launcher, so whenever I tried to join a server, it would give me an error message. Hell, just telling someone how to open the console would already be a step up.
Second, the ratio of vets to newbies is too high. Right now, it might be 1:2, meaning, on average, newbies in a pub server have a high interaction rate with vets. If you bring in a ton of randoms, and change the ratio to 1:20, there'll be less negative interaction, and create a more conducive learning environment. Of course, if that's the route you take, you need to have the capacity to host all these people, and be aware of the natural skill progression people are going to take and be ready to accommodate (honestly, I'm talking about PUs).
That leads me to what I see as the fundamental problem of the competition scene. There needs to be a "tournament mode" on servers that can be voted, and some sort of admin power that is held by more people. The idea of 16 people waiting in TeamSpeak for 2 hours for one of the devs to come start up a server that can't even be accessed from the server list is absurd. And regardless of how much advertising you do, there's no way that can fly for long at all.
There's ZERO reason someone should have to join mIRC and/or TS3 to get involved in PUs.
Marketing: Find some way for Legions to go viral. Whether it's finding people like this: http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=621322, or doing paid advertising, or writing a series of well-targeted articles hailing a new release and timing them in conjunction with gameplay videos. Opening up the game to modding (if possible) would also invite independent ideas and effort.
Relative to 99% of games, Legions has a high skill curve before it becomes "fun". However, there are a number of ways to lower the barrier of entry for random people. All these ideas for new reticles, new maps, random new features, are not going to make the slightest difference in number of people who join and number of people the game retains. No one joins or quits a game because of no-fog, so why worry about it now?
First of all, I'd write a troubleshooting FAQ for installation. It should be pretty easy, since there aren't many errors, but it shouldn't be a requirement for someone who wants to play to have to install mIRC or TS3. I recall that I was launching the wrong launcher, so whenever I tried to join a server, it would give me an error message. Hell, just telling someone how to open the console would already be a step up.
Second, the ratio of vets to newbies is too high. Right now, it might be 1:2, meaning, on average, newbies in a pub server have a high interaction rate with vets. If you bring in a ton of randoms, and change the ratio to 1:20, there'll be less negative interaction, and create a more conducive learning environment. Of course, if that's the route you take, you need to have the capacity to host all these people, and be aware of the natural skill progression people are going to take and be ready to accommodate (honestly, I'm talking about PUs).
That leads me to what I see as the fundamental problem of the competition scene. There needs to be a "tournament mode" on servers that can be voted, and some sort of admin power that is held by more people. The idea of 16 people waiting in TeamSpeak for 2 hours for one of the devs to come start up a server that can't even be accessed from the server list is absurd. And regardless of how much advertising you do, there's no way that can fly for long at all.
There's ZERO reason someone should have to join mIRC and/or TS3 to get involved in PUs.
Marketing: Find some way for Legions to go viral. Whether it's finding people like this: http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=621322, or doing paid advertising, or writing a series of well-targeted articles hailing a new release and timing them in conjunction with gameplay videos. Opening up the game to modding (if possible) would also invite independent ideas and effort.
GReaper
Grumpy
First impressions of the game are absolutely vital. If something goes wrong with the users experience during their sign up, game installation or first gameplay experience then they're highly unlikely to stick around or come back.
We know there are issues. We don't want to start promoting this game until the vast majority of people can play the game without the various known issues which are listed throughout the bug reports forum are solved.
Just remember that we're a limited team. Those of you who think "how could they have released the game without X feature?!", or telling us what we're missing - we already know. All this stuff takes time, and software development isn't as easy as clicking your fingers for instant results.
We know there are issues. We don't want to start promoting this game until the vast majority of people can play the game without the various known issues which are listed throughout the bug reports forum are solved.
Just remember that we're a limited team. Those of you who think "how could they have released the game without X feature?!", or telling us what we're missing - we already know. All this stuff takes time, and software development isn't as easy as clicking your fingers for instant results.
Mabeline
God-Tier
I only have so much time to do things, and unfortunately public (ie non-pickup player) facing problems take priority over ones on the PUG servers only. I know it's a problem, unfortunately everything gets thrown on the "todo" list (though that stuff is coming to the top very soon! LEEK LEEK).
And theres zero reason a person needs to be on TS3 to be in a pickup? The requirement of pickups has, in Legions, always been you need to have voice communication to play at all, skilled players have always gotten picked up from pubs regularly (hell, I remember when almost everybody who plays PUGs was a newbie that just started playing pickups, and I've seen more pugging newbies than I did in the last 2 months on IA).
I'm well aware of the resource difficulties so if I came across as overly critical, my apologies . I guess the point I was trying to get across was the need for accessibility and room for growth.
I'm going to liken T1 LT to this only for the purpose of how to keep something alive (or less dead, rather).
For a pub player in Legions, it's very easy once you have the game downloaded. You just join a server and go. The problem is, that probably gets old pretty fast. I was bored by 5 days in (binswees had the same experience). There's no appeal however, to the casual gamer who still wants his dose of competition, which is in my mind, probably the lower end of mainstream (pub = mainstream, matches/PU w/TS and mic = "hardcore").
There's no in between. Now, contrast this to T1, which makes it remarkably easy to choose your experience, and thus appeals to a much wider range of people.
There's pub, pickup, pickup w/vent, match. Games are no doubt higher quality with TS3. But the more requirements you ask, the more select your market.
In T1, randoms can actually see pickup servers. They're actually aware that they're going on. Some of them require ventrilo, and some of them don't. They don't need to get on IRC. They don't need to download TS3. They don't need to wait for certain people. If there are any 10 people waiting around, a game can start. And by getting a taste of a pickup (regardless of quality) without significant initial investment, it piques their interest in joining the higher quality ones. There's a gradation of skill arenas, rather than a quantum jump from pub to "intense pu with full TS communication".
Personally, I think pub play is pretty complete in terms of bugs (minus lack of votekick). Just an opinion. It just seems to me that things like "no fog" (which are really a matter of preference; liken to HUDbot in T1) are pretty minor in terms of bringing in and retaining players, relative to "do we have a macro-oriented PU system?"
Anyway, just some thoughts!
. I guess the point I was trying to get across was the need for accessibility and room for growth.I'm going to liken T1 LT to this only for the purpose of how to keep something alive (or less dead, rather).
For a pub player in Legions, it's very easy once you have the game downloaded. You just join a server and go. The problem is, that probably gets old pretty fast. I was bored by 5 days in (binswees had the same experience). There's no appeal however, to the casual gamer who still wants his dose of competition, which is in my mind, probably the lower end of mainstream (pub = mainstream, matches/PU w/TS and mic = "hardcore").
There's no in between. Now, contrast this to T1, which makes it remarkably easy to choose your experience, and thus appeals to a much wider range of people.
There's pub, pickup, pickup w/vent, match. Games are no doubt higher quality with TS3. But the more requirements you ask, the more select your market.
In T1, randoms can actually see pickup servers. They're actually aware that they're going on. Some of them require ventrilo, and some of them don't. They don't need to get on IRC. They don't need to download TS3. They don't need to wait for certain people. If there are any 10 people waiting around, a game can start. And by getting a taste of a pickup (regardless of quality) without significant initial investment, it piques their interest in joining the higher quality ones. There's a gradation of skill arenas, rather than a quantum jump from pub to "intense pu with full TS communication".
Personally, I think pub play is pretty complete in terms of bugs (minus lack of votekick). Just an opinion. It just seems to me that things like "no fog" (which are really a matter of preference; liken to HUDbot in T1) are pretty minor in terms of bringing in and retaining players, relative to "do we have a macro-oriented PU system?"
Anyway, just some thoughts!
BugsPray
Legions Developer
It's already been brought up in this thread a couple times, but it's important to keep things in perspective.
First and foremost, we wouldn't have picked up this project if it weren't for you guys. After months of broken promises from IA and little or no progress, the community still stuck around and weathered the storm. It shows the world that you're just as committed as we are to making Legions a kickass game. It's really not a matter of 'us' or 'you' - it's all of us. We have big things in mind for Legions - things that make us excited to both develop AND play - and you as a community member are right in the core of it (pun intended). We're driven by your passion for the game, and we hope you all get some enjoyment out of the changes and additions we're making. Over time, Legions will become a full featured game. It's not going to happen this month, or even next month, but over time the pieces will fall into place and the experiences will get richer. It will happen over a lot of blood, sweat and tears from both the community and the development team.
A note on things like mapping, modding, player hosted servers, etc:
The entire dev team is one borne of community control. We're modders, artists, writers, programmers, and players who have benefited from open modification and creation in games. It's on our minds constantly and we're always talking about how we can better give you all control over the game. Some things we can do and some things we cant, and those things change over time. There's a perception that we just want to control everything and that there's a divide between devs and players. This is a perception that is utterly false, and we take steps daily to ensure the community is well represented during the development process.
There are cool things coming to Legions. We're excited, and you should be too.
@Jack: Completely agree. Pickups should be easily accessible, and hopefully we will have some features soon that will accommodate that need.
First and foremost, we wouldn't have picked up this project if it weren't for you guys. After months of broken promises from IA and little or no progress, the community still stuck around and weathered the storm. It shows the world that you're just as committed as we are to making Legions a kickass game. It's really not a matter of 'us' or 'you' - it's all of us. We have big things in mind for Legions - things that make us excited to both develop AND play - and you as a community member are right in the core of it (pun intended). We're driven by your passion for the game, and we hope you all get some enjoyment out of the changes and additions we're making. Over time, Legions will become a full featured game. It's not going to happen this month, or even next month, but over time the pieces will fall into place and the experiences will get richer. It will happen over a lot of blood, sweat and tears from both the community and the development team.
A note on things like mapping, modding, player hosted servers, etc:
The entire dev team is one borne of community control. We're modders, artists, writers, programmers, and players who have benefited from open modification and creation in games. It's on our minds constantly and we're always talking about how we can better give you all control over the game. Some things we can do and some things we cant, and those things change over time. There's a perception that we just want to control everything and that there's a divide between devs and players. This is a perception that is utterly false, and we take steps daily to ensure the community is well represented during the development process.
There are cool things coming to Legions. We're excited, and you should be too.
@Jack: Completely agree. Pickups should be easily accessible, and hopefully we will have some features soon that will accommodate that need.
Floks
Member
I thought this was the important part. Stop spamming taunts in game, stop trolling games and forum posts, and stop being a prick to anyone and everyone in the game. Anonymously trolling in games doesn't make you cool. Telling other players they suck, when they're in PUGs, trying to get better, doesn't make you cool. If you think you're the best player out there, you probably aren't. If you want people to actually enjoy this game, you might want to try and "play nice."
There are a lot of players that continuously suggest we do more to help newer players, but do nothing about it. If you really want to help them, take them to an empty server and show someone the basics of the game. Tell them about Teamspeak, and PUGs. This community is one of the least friendly I've ever seen, and honestly it's not going to last much longer with the way everyone acts toward each other. That's the reality, and I don't see anyone trying to change how they behave.
I think the devs have done a great job in updating this game. Though I might not agree with some of the changes (or the quality of them), a quick look at the blog posts shows that we have gotten a patch at least once a week. Considering that Legions Overdrive has been out for little over a month, I ask that people refrain from questioning the actual development cycle of the game. At this point, it isn't going to help much.
I feel the development team could use some expansion though. Looking at some of the art and scripting in the mods section of the forums, I wonder what these people could do with full access to the game and why they don't have it already. This would also bring a wider range of people into the loop and could promote a more creative, balanced, and fun game.
Also, I wanted to point out that the members count in the forums might give a better representation of the amount of active players in this game since they are separate registrations (I haven't noticed any smurfs in the forums yet). The players who have gone inactive could be off-set by the amount of players that haven't registered for various reasons.
I feel the development team could use some expansion though. Looking at some of the art and scripting in the mods section of the forums, I wonder what these people could do with full access to the game and why they don't have it already. This would also bring a wider range of people into the loop and could promote a more creative, balanced, and fun game.
Also, I wanted to point out that the members count in the forums might give a better representation of the amount of active players in this game since they are separate registrations (I haven't noticed any smurfs in the forums yet). The players who have gone inactive could be off-set by the amount of players that haven't registered for various reasons.
Vinzyboy23
Member
Sounds good about the map, and it is really good to grow the Dev team and rehire some old IA staffs that worked in Legions in IA.
Propkid
Member
Hope this doesn't mean that someone will start making vlogs again...