Poll: Respawn times

Respawn times should be...

  • Longer

    Votes: 27 45.8%
  • Same

    Votes: 24 40.7%
  • Shorter

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • Total voters
    59

Outlawl

Macabre
The issue is, it takes less time to respawn than to sit and regen health. As a result there is really _no_ consequences for dying.


don't think increasing that number across the board is a solution with some flag to flag routes already taking about as long as respawning.

When it takes a player 3 seconds to travel flag to flag it's probably the result of poor map design, something which this argument hasn't acknowledged yet.





Could respawn times be made relative to the size of the map? Frostbite = 5 seconds, Bladerun = 8, etc? You know, because respawn rates would affect an LO more depending on how quickly he could get back to the enemy base.

I like this. I like this a lot.
 

Homingun

Member
Ugh, I can't believe I liked what you posted.

I agree two Sentinels flag passing during standoff is over powered, although I don't think the problem is respawn times as a whole, but how you spawn in as your selected class.

Anyway, I just wanted to add that heavy passing is not the source of the problem, it is just the extreme case of it. It can easily be done with other classes. There have been many times where I have tried to damage the rest of the defense to narrow the carrier's options just for the players to suicide and be ready for the pass a couple seconds later.

Dedicated chase defense, cappers and LO cannot afford to lose a second on maps like Frost just to curb Sent passing.

Also, LOs biggest problem right now is that the time windows they create for cappers are extremely short and easily misplaced, not respawn times. Hence front OD routes are becoming all the rage (that and IFFs). For cappers, I don't find having a longer respawn time annoying at all considering I spend far more time setting up a route.

As Outlawl already posted, there is really no penalty for suiciding or getting killed. Hence why snipers suicide when you waste your time and go after them. They will be instantly affective after the short spawn with their long range weapon.

I ask that people keep in mind that inventory stations is going to change the speed and dynamics of this game a lot. Currently, I don't find one class much more powerful than the other (except the sniper for one of the reasons stated above). So why should some players waste their time to get into their role? It might seem like adding depth, but if the player spawns with the items, it's really not.

We need to stop balancing the game so that certain roles can be affective.

Edit: grammer
 
I feel like if it's EASIER to kill yourself and respawn than to regenerate life while in your own base, something is wrong.
Agreed with emphasis on the "while in your own base" part. How about making respawn time relative to both the amount of health you have left and the distance between you and the nearest spawning point in your base? Of course, the distance also takes map sizes into account, and so could be mixed in with DOS’s suggestion of relative respawn times based on map size.
 

fatboy

New Member
Self passing, or ridiculously fast team passing was used very much in Tribes 1/2/V LT, and it never felt over powered, although thinking about it now I can't think of why (in comparison to Legions).

I personally don't find the passing between medium/outrider too much of a problem (niv and moon more so with the pass up to the tower leaving chasers below), but the Sent passing in a recent pickup game (my first in about a year) was just silly. No matter where they were located, at about half health, a few overdrives and suicide put the flag in the hands of another defender - respawn, rinse repeat.

Once the flag was returned the instant overdrive would be used to instantly cap the flag. I know this is getting a little off topic, but I think this may be part of the problem leading you to look at respawn times.

I personally don't think dynamic respawn times are a solution. Feels like kludge and a band-aid, not address the root of the problem.
 
Maybe a countdown timer that starts when you die and increases your respawn time by 1 sec everytime you die before the timer runs out? Stackable up to a certain amount, with the timer refreshing after every death. Sure, some people might stay and just heal, costing them precious time that could be spent defending/chasing, but for most, 1-5 secs extra really isn't that much when you have to respawn. Or maybe it could increase by .5 sec when you respawn and 1 sec when you are killed.
Just tossing some ideas around.
 

skypredator

Member
Maybe a countdown timer that starts when you die and increases your respawn time by 1 sec everytime you die before the timer runs out? Stackable up to a certain amount, with the timer refreshing after every death. Sure, some people might stay and just heal, costing them precious time that could be spent defending/chasing, but for most, 1-5 secs extra really isn't that much when you have to respawn. Or maybe it could increase by .5 sec when you respawn and 1 sec when you are killed.
Just tossing some ideas around.

Nice idea. I think respawn times should increase by .5 seconds for each time you suicide. This would keep away people like Mapubare and Luisf. Meh. Outlawl, are you suggesting that the map Frostbyte is severly flawed?
 

Redvan

Private Tester
The fast respawn times wouldn't bother me at all (well, they already dont bother me too much) if they reduce the invulnerability.
 

Aki

Member
I could stand to have an extra second or 3/4 tacked on. Or make a scale with OR staying as is and sent being twice the current time with raider in between.
 

Outlawl

Macabre
Outlawl, are you suggesting that the map Frostbyte is severly flawed?

Yes, Yes I am. With the fast speed present in legions and the small area of some maps, it's no coincidence that it is extremely hard - if not impossible, to chase on maps such as moonshine, nivosus, or frostbyte. We can't cater the respawn timer to the needs of chasers when the maps we play on don't support the position.
 

Homingun

Member
Again, Outlawl, again. I think people like frostbyte because of the quick gameplay.

Once the flag was returned the instant overdrive would be used to instantly cap the flag. I know this is getting a little off topic, but I think this may be part of the problem leading you to look at respawn times.

Maybe instant ODs are part of the problem. Giving extreme agility to a heavy class is counter-intuitive. But I don't think this will be removed since so many people are used to the easy button (aka R). If they could somehow use the heavy's toughness to stop cappers instead of the instant OD. Maybe if heavies have a shield (inceasing their body model size) that doesn't take impulse and absorbs damage based on energy. That way they would have to use their bigger model to body block cappers on stand. This would also make them used in other areas.
 

Outlawl

Macabre
Again, Outlawl, again. I think people like frostbyte because of the quick gameplay

Right, but I think you and I know that just because it's fun to play on doesn't mean it works.

The way I see it this whole issue is derived from map design. We can't have a single set of values that work on both large and small maps as both play quite differently. While small maps may encourage cluster-spamming the flag (due to the small size and short respawn times) large maps require precision and coordination down to the second. As a result when you start tweaking the respawn timer to affect one type of gameplay the latter receives the inverse effect.
 

Daphinicus

Private Tester
Some astute and valuable observations going on here. A couple points to consider:
  1. As Homingun has pointed out, inventory stations should change up the dynamics of stay-at-home play quite a bit, regardless of map size. Once those changes are in place, revisiting respawn timers may well be a necessity, but until they are -- and until we have more maps against which to judge our hypotheses (for, as Outlawl mentioned, given the current Legions gameplay mechanics size can make all the difference in the world) -- falling into speculation is inevitable. As such, we may have to voluntarily put this conversation on hold until a week or so after inventory stations are in, when we've gotten used to the new gameplay dynamics and have identified the inevitable problems that will have arisen.
  2. While the specifics are going to have to wait, the dev team is working on other means by which players can find their niches within the game. This, too, will change things up considerably.
Homingun, I actually really like your thoughts on a body-block-enhancing replacement for iOD. The question comes to my mind, though: Which would be more fun? iOD's a pretty fun aspect of the game and is fairly core to current Sentinel gameplay. We risk turning people off of playing Sent altogether by removing what is, for some, the defining aspect of the armor class. Perhaps nerfing it slightly, but providing a more effective body-block alternative, would encourage HoFers to pick one or the other -- the ability to easily grab the flag when it's being tossed around like a hot potato, or the ability to effectively stop incoming cappers with a be-all, end-all body block.

It's definitely food for thought.
 

Buhlitz

Member
does anyone remember playing sentinel without iOD? Chew on that one :p

I think in order to place value on life, we must severely punish death.

10 second re spawns anyone?
 

skypredator

Member
My idea exactly, Blitz. Cowards have no place in Legions. Which is why I try to chain anyone rocket spamming me when I snipe. My *bumm* gets blown to *hellgates*, but at least I don't suicide. :D
 

sugardemon

Member
Wow, I can honestly say no, i don't remember. sure that was ever a live build? I would definitely feel odd, but it would make capping easier.

I can't wait to see some changes come through, even if I'm nervous about how they might affect my fat-suit. Just to see the different ways the gameplay will shift will be fun, even if things need to be tweaked later.
Legions growing as a game? Very nice trend.
 

snapplefish

New Member
I do think that Outlaw has brought up a very valid point (multiple times, both in L:OD and FE:L) which hasn't been addressed or even considered; flaws in map design. Is there any reason that people are ignoring this and are instead focusing on "fixes" which wouldn't resolve the overarching issues?

does anyone remember playing sentinel without iOD? Chew on that one :p

I think in order to place value on life, we must severely punish death.

10 second re spawns anyone?
  • Doesn't bother to read the thread or any of the arguments
  • Proposes something which would be obviously detrimental to gameplay without any sort of justification sans a floaty bit about life and death
  • Passsive-aggressive emoticon following a "when-I-was-your-age" irrelevant anecdote
Way to contribute to the thread.
 

Daphinicus

Private Tester
Hey Snapple! Welcome back.

The thoughts regarding troubles with map design are very much at the forefront of the developers' minds. We're trying to address them by working on new maps; since we have comparatively limited resources, we figure it makes more sense to build new maps with designs that take into consideration the future direction of Legions and the issues y'all are raising, rather than spend our time trying to jury rig evolving Legions concepts into aging maps.

Also, being obnoxious to someone else doesn't contribute to the thread either, bud. Try to practice what you preach. As far as the mods are concerned, trolling and being an ass are basically the same thing.
 

Buhlitz

Member
I do think that Outlaw has brought up a very valid point (multiple times, both in L:OD and FE:L) which hasn't been addressed or even considered; flaws in map design. Is there any reason that people are ignoring this and are instead focusing on "fixes" which wouldn't resolve the overarching issues?


  • Doesn't bother to read the thread or any of the arguments
  • Proposes something which would be obviously detrimental to gameplay without any sort of justification sans a floaty bit about life and death
  • Passsive-aggressive emoticon following a "when-I-was-your-age" irrelevant anecdote
Way to contribute to the thread.


Oh look, another angsty follower. I could write an essay on the idea, but I didn't have time as I was on my way to work at the time. (reply being typed from work)

The smily wasn't anecdotal, or passive aggressive. It was to add to the conversation concerning what else you could do with sentinel without the iOD, which IF YOU CAN REMEMBER (hence the statement) it was very difficult to play and very underpowered.

Punish the loss of life to value keeping it should have been all I needed to say for you to understand the point, which you've clearly misplaced with anger, jealousy, envy, or some other sort of unnecessary drama. You've completely misunderstood my post and in the process contributed even LESS than I did.

and I whole heartedly agree in the map design being a huge contributor to the problem. Early physics were played on maps that weren't designed for current physics, it's as simple as that.
 
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