The Great Mortar Debate Thread
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PureWhoopAss
Legions Developer
Sorry if you can't outrun a mortar then maybe you deserve to die... the only issue with mortar is the overuse of more then one fatty. Specially when they send them on offense..
anak
VIP
the mortar is fine. the sentinel needs some work. here's what i would do:
He's supposed to be able to fend off cappers with his iOD, but when he collides in OD with an outrider who's also ODing, he gets batted away a large majority of the time. And if he OD's without spinning a 180 to get the full force or reach the full distance of the Overdrive, his momentum carries him far away from the flagstand and also dilutes the effect of any subsequent OD's (this effect, combined with badness, often results in the player ODing in circles around a flag or flagstand).
Rescaling the OD into a powerful but short burst would allow him to make surgical block maneuvers without sacrificing his positioning. Increasing his mass would make it harder to gain momentum or be pushed away, and increasing the strength of his vertical jets would allow him to maintain his defensive positions on maps with elevated flagstands without having to OD
too tired to write more. note: these are objective suggestions, i'm not complaining. and yes. these changes would make heavy O A LOT harder. that was on purpose.
- increase mass
- decrease OD time
- increase OD impulse strength
- increase strength of upjet/downjet
He's supposed to be able to fend off cappers with his iOD, but when he collides in OD with an outrider who's also ODing, he gets batted away a large majority of the time. And if he OD's without spinning a 180 to get the full force or reach the full distance of the Overdrive, his momentum carries him far away from the flagstand and also dilutes the effect of any subsequent OD's (this effect, combined with badness, often results in the player ODing in circles around a flag or flagstand).
Rescaling the OD into a powerful but short burst would allow him to make surgical block maneuvers without sacrificing his positioning. Increasing his mass would make it harder to gain momentum or be pushed away, and increasing the strength of his vertical jets would allow him to maintain his defensive positions on maps with elevated flagstands without having to OD
too tired to write more. note: these are objective suggestions, i'm not complaining. and yes. these changes would make heavy O A LOT harder. that was on purpose.
Mortar spam? Damn, here I was thinking that the mortar had the longest reload time. And do people consider not being able to outrun a mortar capping now?
Mortars have been an issue mainly due to their huge splash and damage. They catch anything that is on the ground in an un-dodgeable damage cloud that seriously damages/kills players who are unaware or predictable. And before people go off saying "u just need to be less predictable or more aware", consider how many times you've had to react to being hit. Then realize that even if you are aware or unpredictable, the huge splash will still catch you. Legions is a reactive game that rewards skill; hence why we don't have 1 hit snipers like in COD.
And since people seem to be discussing iOD here, I'll go ahead and put this here as well.
The sent could've had an ability that promoted its own attributes (like how overdrive promotes extreme mobility at the cost of health for OR); something like a shield that was tied into their energy so they could hold on to the flag or do sustained damage. Or an energy burst device that projected energy to repel in-game objects such as flags, players, and rockets. Interestingly, I've noticed that the combination of mortar and iOD have created a hit and run "heavy" class (lulz).
Also, I feel that the heavy has been given too much health and too little mobility to compensate for the iOD.
Um, isn't what you are suggesting make him more ez-mode than before?
Mortars have been an issue mainly due to their huge splash and damage. They catch anything that is on the ground in an un-dodgeable damage cloud that seriously damages/kills players who are unaware or predictable. And before people go off saying "u just need to be less predictable or more aware", consider how many times you've had to react to being hit. Then realize that even if you are aware or unpredictable, the huge splash will still catch you. Legions is a reactive game that rewards skill; hence why we don't have 1 hit snipers like in COD.
And since people seem to be discussing iOD here, I'll go ahead and put this here as well.
The sent could've had an ability that promoted its own attributes (like how overdrive promotes extreme mobility at the cost of health for OR); something like a shield that was tied into their energy so they could hold on to the flag or do sustained damage. Or an energy burst device that projected energy to repel in-game objects such as flags, players, and rockets. Interestingly, I've noticed that the combination of mortar and iOD have created a hit and run "heavy" class (lulz).
Also, I feel that the heavy has been given too much health and too little mobility to compensate for the iOD.
Um, isn't what you are suggesting make him more ez-mode than before?
Strife
Moderator
By reactive I hope you`re referring to shifting tactics; reflexively, it`s one of the least demanding games out there. You want skill-based, go play UT or something else that demands quickness
Legions doesn't have 1 hit snipers like in COD because its poor maneuverability (i.e., directional shifts) and open maps make for sniper bait.
-Nept
stefygraff
Private Tester
mortar is more of a close (and not fun) weapon than it should be, no skill needed to use it(really none). imo, if you make it blow over 100m, it would be perfect, just stop the close range "skill" killing with the "big vomit". As further as you shoot it, the damage gets bigger, so if u spam the stand, you wont be that successful
Karnage
Private Tester
The reload time has nothing to do with it. When you are on Frosty for instance and you have one enemy heavy on the hill behind you, another on the tower in front of you and a third on a hill to your right, all throwing mortars at the flag stand while your own team has two heavies also throwing mortars at the flag stand, then add to the mix another heavy having a bowl party in front of your base and yes, I would call that spamming. The mortars kill incoming cappers, the HoF, and all defence players thereby rendering any defence besides the mortar, useless. It also then breaks the flow of the game.
Anaklu, for once I actually like a post you made. Wow. His suggestions would take some adjusting to but right now I am pretty much pro anything that makes the heavy want to stay on defence where he should be IMO. I don't even mind the tactical HO who distracts with mortars when his cappers are coming in. I can accept that but when you have 3 heavies all hiding on high ground and throwing mortars randomly at the flag stand from a distance I think the game is pretty much dead.
Disci
Old man
Problem is that it's too easy to suit up heavy armor and head back to O and lob your mortars like a maniac. I don't mind about having 3 mortar throwing *chocolate cookies* faces near my base destroying everything if I knew it's my(teams) fault if they are there. I don't mean I should hunt them down one by one, I mean there should be destroyable inventories where every heavy would need to use to suit up. One objective more = a game I could enjoy slightly more.
This is not what you pro heavy players want, I know that, also I know most of the peeps in here don't want the pace nerfed, but keeping this game as a mindless cluster *dance* as it is now is just *dancing* stupid and you all suck cocks. That's all I want to say. Now carry on, faggots.
Disci
Old man
That would be silly. So, are you ready to play Raider or OR if someone has picked the sent before you? You're pissing in your own bowl right there, you know?
prometheus11
New Member
What if there's a special ammo station in the center of the map in which contains a single mortar launcher?
It can only be used by one player at a time. Once that player dies it returns to that ammo station for anyone (who is a sentinel) from either team to pick up and use. Or maybe two launchers?
The team that had them would have a significant advantage but could easily lose that advantage by being destroyed and the advantage could be turned around.
Or maybe the launchers could drop like a flag does and return to the ammo station after a certain number of seconds of not being picked up?
EDIT:
I don't think the mortar should be nerfed or the Sent's abilities changed. It's a unique class that really adds a lot of depth to the game-play. The above solution could satisfy the annoyance of mortar spamming (teammates could easily destroy idiots and thus get it into the hands of someone who will use it correctly) while at the same time *adding* game-play value rather than removing it.
It can only be used by one player at a time. Once that player dies it returns to that ammo station for anyone (who is a sentinel) from either team to pick up and use. Or maybe two launchers?
The team that had them would have a significant advantage but could easily lose that advantage by being destroyed and the advantage could be turned around.
Or maybe the launchers could drop like a flag does and return to the ammo station after a certain number of seconds of not being picked up?
EDIT:
I don't think the mortar should be nerfed or the Sent's abilities changed. It's a unique class that really adds a lot of depth to the game-play. The above solution could satisfy the annoyance of mortar spamming (teammates could easily destroy idiots and thus get it into the hands of someone who will use it correctly) while at the same time *adding* game-play value rather than removing it.
Propkid
Member
That solution is actually used in many competetive mods that I've heard of (in CoD for example). A limit to 1 sentinel per 4 players on a team would be a good one.
anak
VIP
xtreme, i suggest you leave these forums until you mature a bit.
homing - the best way to balance classes is by adjusting their numbers, not by giving them things. it wouldn't make sent ez mode - it would make it harder to accomplish the annoying tactics (heavy O) and easier to accomplish the task it was (imo) created to do.
karnage - 57th is the ONLY reason besides jago that pubs have a problem with sentinels. you have no idea how irritating and destructive your 'tactics' are to pubs.
homing - the best way to balance classes is by adjusting their numbers, not by giving them things. it wouldn't make sent ez mode - it would make it harder to accomplish the annoying tactics (heavy O) and easier to accomplish the task it was (imo) created to do.
karnage - 57th is the ONLY reason besides jago that pubs have a problem with sentinels. you have no idea how irritating and destructive your 'tactics' are to pubs.
SeymourGore
Flatulent Cherub
Good conversation, but lets keep the rude comments out!
That would be 3 enemy players (a majority of the offense) clearing the stand. Spam would be 1 player using the previous iteration of the grenade launcher to sit on the back hill and clear stand. As I said, the issue is with the huge splash and damage and how it makes outriders and raiders useless after just one good hit.
Building classes around tasks to be done is like working a math problem backwards. Once an initial variable changes, the previous answer becomes obsolete. Heavy Offense by itself isn't ez-mode; it's the bowl/stand mortar/iOD that makes it ez-mod.
By reactive, I was referring to reacting to someone shooting at you. There were very few instances where a player could get killed without having time to react (unlike COD). Skill isn't just about being twitchy and having a fast pace. There's more to it than that.
I find it harder to hit players as sniper in Legions than in COD. This is probably due to the 6 directional movement and the server side game.
Mahidhar
Member
I speak for myself and the rest of my clan members who DON'T play Sentinels. Stop pointing your finger at us, it's annoying.
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