Player health recharge

[Mahidhar]

I don't really think health packs are gonna make this game more "exciting" for me. Sure, they'll make you think twice, before you use the health packs, and give camping snipers more trouble, but I doubt it's any better than Health Regeneration. And the more restrictions you add to this system, the less people will care about replenishing, or using health packs.

I myself, would rather respawn, than waste time, looking for "enemy area", "friendly area" or "pack restorative points", which some of you have spoken about. Basing on my experience in Legions, I'd say that, Health Regeneration has been a trusty friend at one time, and an arch enemy at another. Because, the only way you're able to heal, is to stay on the ground, with the jets turned off. Not only, has this created a height advantage against the one healing(using the present system), but also makes him vulnerable to lose more health than gain. You 'right click' even once, and your armor healing will stop, and the timer resets. As I said, it's neither a true friend, nor a true foe, and I think, it's fine the way it is. Also, it's not spammable, nor it alone had given any player position, a notable advantage. The pace at which the health regenerates, and the time it takes to initiate the health regeneration(doubtful), have already been nerfed to the minimum. Health Regeneration has also been unique to the game, and It would be sad to see it removed. So, if you really want to replace it, I'd suggest you do that with something which is significantly effective, than Health Regeneration system, unlike the health packs.

I know people are trying to eradicate some annoyances in the game, but this path is not the right one. Not only that, but the word "health pack", just seems lame and old. It seems to me, people just want to have the various aspects of other games, especially Tribes(no offense), to be in this one, now that the IA community heads control it. It's like, a mad scientist wants to create a hybrid of various animals, but instead creates an abomination. To think that I have once believed that, Legions was going to approach a new direction in the gaming franchise, how naive of me.

P.S. Whatever I wrote above, is just my opinion, my 2 cents.

 

[SeymourGore]

I dunno, seems like 'health regeneration' is the most common health mechanic in popular FPS's now (Halo and COD springing immediately to mind). Health regeneration, in its current iteration, needs a revamp. It's been on the drawing board to be changed since the MungeParty days (not just after the "community heads" took over).

And like what has previously been said, we're going to test out different implementations of health restoration. What sounds great on paper may not play out so well ingame.

Personally, my favorite suggestions for personal restoration have been the 'notched health regeneration' (I believe it was Serket's idea) and a enemy dropped health kit. My reasoning for this is that notched health regeneration allows the game to be more forgiving for new players (who need to adjust themselves to skiing, etc), allowing them to heal back a minor amount of health between 'notches' (think a bump or two whilst skiing). The enemy dropped health kit rewards both defensive and offensive players, while not promoting the 'running and hiding' that full health regeneration did.

 

[Disci]

Face it, Legions will not be the same game you played before IA went down. There will be changes and this is probably going to be in the game because regeneration of health was more an annoyance than a good thing to have. Too bad you don't like this fact. Truth is that most of us doesn't care.

 

[Mahidhar]

The only rule other games with health regeneration aspects follow is, don't get hit for X amount of time and Y amount of health regenerates. I still stand on my point that Health Regeneration in Legions is unique. Because, you don't have the ability to ski in COD or Halo, let alone have the rule of regenerating with jets turned off. But, I really don't understand what's so flawed about it, that needs changing. And , as far as your idea goes, can those enemy health packs be stacked? or will they just be dropped by the enemy and can only be used at the place where the enemy died?

EDIT: @Disci, I did face it, which is why I haven't committed a mistake of having an argument here. I never meant that I wanted the same old Legions, it's just that, it's sad that it's just following the ways of old and dead games and nothing new.

 

[SeymourGore]

The only rule other games with health regeneration aspects follow is, don't get hit for X amount of time and Y amount of health regenerates. I still stand on my point that Health Regeneration in Legions is unique. Because, you don't have the ability to ski in COD or Halo, let alone have the rule of regenerating with jets turned off. But, I really don't understand what's so flawed about it, that needs changing. And , as far as your idea goes, can those enemy health packs be stacked? or will they just be dropped by the enemy and can only be used at the place where the enemy died?

EDIT: @Disci, I did face it, which is why I haven't committed a mistake of having an argument here. I never meant that I wanted the same old Legions, it's just that, it's sad that it's just following the ways of old and dead games and nothing new.

I wouldn't want to see the item 'stack', as, y'know, a player could just collect a bunch of them and be invincible. As for being able to be used later on, I kinda like the idea of it being used as soon as a player crosses over it. This way, new players won't 'forget' to use their health kit.

 

[Disci]

Forget? How about they learn to use it?

 

[SeymourGore]

Forget? How about they learn to use it?

Hohoho, that's true. The nice thing about an itemized health kit, is that you could save it for later use. ie: Trick a player into playing more aggressive because they think you're almost out of health.

Seymour sees Disci at low health, and goes on the attack (instead of his usual duck and hide technique). Seymour is horrified when he notices Disci activate his health kit and restores a moderate percentage of his health. What will Seymour do now?!

 

[NightHawk043]

When you say crosses over it seymour, would you be referring to it being used the moment you pick it up (like in T:V for instance)? Or do you mean that each player has one health kit included in their armor, and the moment when their health drops past the point where one health kit could heal you, it activates?

Personally, I'd like to mix a few of the ideas we've had so far together.

Imagine, each person's health is divided into 6 or so segments. Health regeneration would work only to the top of the current segment (unless player is near some kind of repair structure, mentioned further down).
Upon killing an opponent, they drop a health pack, which when you run over, will heal you over the course of 5 or so seconds to the value of one segment. (note this would mean that if a player has just over one of the segments filled, it will heal up to the same point, one segment up, so manual health regen could then take place.
Each health pack would lay on the ground for say 10 to 15 seconds before disappearing.
Now, combining both the manual regen and the health pack would result in both happening at once, i.e. regen at a faster rate. However, picking up 2 health packs in quick succession would result 2 segments of healing over the course of 10 seconds or so (i.e. as if one pack was used after the other). This would be to prevent in a crowded server a player running over large numbers of health packs at once and becoming virtually invincible for a few seconds.
(manual regen can't really be done well in the heat of battle, and can't be stacked, so would not be such an issue.)

Bringing in the Regen stations and deployable stations, Players standing near an intact one of these would be able to regen at the normal rate, but all the way up to 100%.
The number of deployable Regen stations would have to be limited either on a map size, or map by map basis, and be limited to only being placed within a certain distance of the enemy base. (somewhere outside of the range of a sniper from the regen station to the base or vice-versa, for example).
On small maps deployable stations would probably not be necessary, as you're rarely a long distance away from you're own base (due to the map size).

The main regen station in each base would have much stronger health and a larger healing range than the deployables.
It might also be an option to make the main base regen you at slightly above the normal regen rate, but deployable regen stations only At the normal regen rate.
The regeneration from the aforementioned stations would not stack with your standard suit regeneration.

Just as I was coming to the end of my argument there, I came across one flaw that I hadn't noticed, and I haven't seen anyone else point out.
The Flaw is that the mentioned main regen station could be destroyed.
Now to repair said station what would we be using?
If we went by tribes for example, we would be using a repair pack.

The flaw, as I see it, is if we are capable of carrying these repair lasers (may take place of a weapon, rather than being a pack), why wouldn't we simply use said lasers to heal Eachother or ourselves?
The only suggestion I can currently think of would be that the lasers are only capable of repairing machinery, and so would be unable to heal any injuries we may attain. (Though that still wouldn't explain why it couldn't repair suit damage.)
Any ideas for my little dilemma?
I might post some if I come up with them later.

 

[Pushi]

Instant health gain while moving ? that would kinda change caping strategies.Might make more sense if its jus a pickup and when you cross over it you gain some health.If you can "store" it and use it when ever you like, capers are gonna be really hard to kill since they can just replenish their health whilst going back to cap the flag.. Unless you make it impossible to use a health pack while you're holding the flag.

 

[SeymourGore]

Instant health gain while moving ? that would kinda change caping strategies.Might make more sense if its jus a pickup and when you cross over it you gain some health.If you can "store" it and use it when ever you like, capers are gonna be really hard to kill since they can just replenish their health whilst going back to cap the flag.. Unless you make it impossible to use a health pack while you're holding the flag.

One way to address this is to have the health kit not restore 100% life, say 35% or 45%. I've never been a big fan of using numbers (mostly because I'm not good with them). The health restoration doesn't have to be immediate either, it might say regenerate to it's capped amount.

Just as I was coming to the end of my argument there, I came across one flaw that I hadn't noticed, and I haven't seen anyone else point out.
The Flaw is that the mentioned main regen station could be destroyed.
Now to repair said station what would we be using?
If we went by tribes for example, we would be using a repair pack.

Hohoho, that's the thing, isn't it? It's hard to delve deep into a specific mechanic without spilling into another area (ie: different Cores, repairing structures, etc). This is the reason that I was such a big fan of DeadSketch's 'Comprehensive Legions Outline' thread from way back when.

 

[Fissurez]

i know this sounds kind of noobish, but i really like the current health system. maybe regenerative health should be toggled by the host?

 

[Whitewhale]

i think the current system is fine just dont allow it at the nme base!

encouraging irritating camping doesnt help the game in any way...just makes it frustrating and encourages llamnation

btw i love the t1 style health pack with no regen but maybe current legions players dont like it

 

[Disci]

Idk, they have already stated that there will be ammo pick ups from a dead bodies, so why not rep kits.

 

[Disci]

Their has to be some way of healing in the enemy base or LO would be terribad.

Nah, just played differently. Rep kits help you a bit but you're in danger of getting blasted when you go loot the body. Kill *chocolate cookies* loads of people and you're rewarded to continue your fighting against infidels!

 

[Whitewhale]

Their has to be some way of healing in the enemy base or LO would be terribad.

if u need auto health up's at the nme base then u aint much of a LO!

 

[3lionz]

Should there be a choice in the load-out?
ie. You can choose

• Health kit (Requires standstill)
• Regenerative (Cap at 50%, Slow Healing unless stationary)
• Regenerative (Cap at 25% Slow, unless stationary/Repair Kit (To repair base healer)

• Why wouldn't we simply use said lasers to heal Eachother or ourselves?

 

[Voltz]

so this is when legions comes to puberty and will bear a striking resemblance to tribes....sad...I hope that health kits won't be put in the game at least in the first few weeks...it would just spoil all the excitment for me at least

Agreed.

 

[Disci]

I hope they will be put in the game right from the beginning, just to spoil the excitement of Alex.

C'mon guys... Do you really expect that Legions is going to be the same game forever? The one you played before IA went down. It's not going to be that very long. There will be changes and I'm sure you don't like them, but belive me, it's going to be the best thing that has happend to this game since forever.

 

[SeymourGore]

Hohohoho, well, if it's any condolences any major changes (like a new health system) won't be ready for the public launch. The first iteration will be more or less the version that was included with Instant Action (before things were taken down).

But don't get too comfortable, things will be changing and, hopefully, you guys will like what's instore for Legions: Overdrive.

 

[Voltz]

I strongly dislike the idea of any changes in the health recharging system. One thing I always appreciated in Legions was the way health was managed. I can understand, though, why some people think otherwise.

Hohohoho, well, if it's any condolences any major changes (like a new health system) won't be ready for the public launch. The first iteration will be more or less the version that was included with Instant Action (before things were taken down).

But don't get too comfortable, things will be changing and, hopefully, you guys will like what's instore for Legions: Overdrive.

Ok Seymour, what do I do to get that idea outta your mind??.....candy?...beer?...women?...lol