Legions: The Community

Do you feel your opinion impacts the development of Legions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 68.8%
  • No

    Votes: 10 31.3%

  • Total voters
    32
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Karnage

Private Tester
That said, I do understand your frustration as well. I feel it too. But I think we must put things in perspective and remember that if not for the dev team we probably wouldn't have a game to feel frustrated about at all. Pretty soon I am sure there are going to be a bunch of people slamming you for not appreciating the dev. team etc. etc. and acting self-righteous (maybe) but that is not what I am doing. I do understand where you are coming from. I think it's just a matter of perspective though. We need to be patient and perhaps a bit more helpful. What could you do to help with advertising for instance? Others in the community are already working on that.

Floks they have an agreement with IA. They can't for legal reasons. At least, that is the way I understand it. I personally, would hate to see it be released to the community. There will be no consistency. Everyone will be playing different versions of the game.
 

Floks

Member
So in conclusion, the development team is tied down by legalities, and cannot allow the community access. Like I said in my first post.
 

Fixious

Test Lead
I personally, would hate to see it be released to the community. There will be no consistency. Everyone will be playing different versions of the game.

wth.jpg
 
Floks, I'll just say this: Read the FAQ and the State of the Empire blog post. The people working on this know that it's vitally important to have player hosted servers and admin control and all that. That's why they are working on it.

However, it's not like they can snap their fingers and have it done. While development for is going on in the background, they can release other changes periodically to keep us entertained and interested in Legions. Hence new maps, nades, weapons. This does not mean that they don't know what they're doing and just adding random weapons and shiny bits. This means that they actually know how to do live development: keep updates coming.

Releasing the game can't be done for legal reasons and shouldn't be done for practical reasons. I've been keeping up with the dev blog and the most of the dev posts on this forum, and the only reason I can think of for the blistering neglect you seem to experience is that you simply haven't informed yourself how the developers work.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
I actually wanted to reply to your posts, Floks, to try to clear up all (or at least some of) the misinformation that you're obviously suffering from. But then I reached this part:
[...] Your whole argument is full of hypocrisy. [...]
Have a nice day! If you want to believe that the Devs are hellbent on hurting the game and your precious feelings, and if you want to be a dick about it at the same time, I won't waste my time and ram my proverbial head against your proverbial wall of ignorance.

On the off chance that you're actually interested in what's really happening (I doubt it, seeing how you just ignore everything people are trying to tell you, if it's not part of how you want to perceive the situation), feel free to ask on IRC. But I won't waste my time on this sad thread.
 

Mahidhar

Member
Release the game to the community. I've been saying this for a long time. If this team of three is so swamped, release the game to the community. O wait, you can't because of some obscure reason that you can't specify. I think it has to do with legal issues? That you say are no longer an issue?

Edit: I bolded it. I mean really GReaper?

Edit2: I wanted it to be bigger.

You know, way back when L:O started, I used to hate the fact that the current development team got hold of the game, I really did. I even thought I knew where this game's gonna head, but slowly my attitude towards this team, changed a lot. The reason behind it, being simply that, when they say an update will be showing up soon, they mean it. As far as I've seen, these guys have been working on the game quite hard, and taking feed back quite well. We've told them the Sentinel class seems very underpowered, and they've made changes to it, so now it actually got some prominence in the game. We said, we're bored with all the maps, and they've launched 5 to 6 maps, to keep us busy. Therefore, I doubt they'd do all that, if they were really throwing us a deaf ear. Heck, this is actually the main reason, I've been quite active in the forums, dropping opinions about some of those interesting ideas, I see in that thread, and making my own Idea threads, no matter how impossible/ridiculous they may seem.

Having said that, about your bolded and super sized sentence. Do you really believe that the community cares about how this game's made? Half of these guys just want the code, and hack the hell out of the bloody game, so they can make everyone else's life tougher. And by the way, when you think people are just abandoning the game, why do you ask these guys to release it? How will releasing the game make it better, if there's no community to develop it?

I am really sick of people thinking they can do better with this game. I'm tired of listening to comments like "They didn't do this right" "They didn't do that right" "These guys don't have a proper schedule" "They got no ambition" etc. And while they're saying that, they're sitting back in their chairs, having a cup of coffee, and playing the game for free. And here's a fun fact; if the game really comes into their hands, I bet 1000$, they aren't going to do crap with it. Just explore, find all the holes, and make hacks, that's all they'll ever do. This is the type of community you're talking about Floks, to whom you want the game to be handed over. But still, I think you can make this dream of yours come true. Just bring 10 more of your friends into the forums, and get to create 10 more threads like this, and see if that doesn't happen. And seriously, I won't be even a little bit surprised if they just stop on everything they've been working on, paste the download link for the game code, and post a big "We're done, eff you" message, on the blog. Also, most of the community took a break from the game, they didn't cut hands, and make any blood promises to never play the game again. I can vouch for my own clan, and the reason they don't want to play the game(or get involved in competition), is because the game's unfinished. But when it's done, they'll definitely come back and give it a try.

In any case, I think all the rage you guys have on the team, will tone down quite a bit, once the vote-map and private hosting are available.

And let me finish this off by saying one last thing; nobody leaves a game. This is not a job we're doing, we don't resign from it. We did not make any contracts with these guys, saying that we'll play and bitch about the game, for "x" number of years. I myself, go back to playing retro games, just because they're fun, and the same goes for Legions if I ever "leave" it.
 

GoodJobDino

Member
I voted yes. The devs aren't just some big brother force that implement things without reviewing our opinion and taking it into account. Also they play with us and participate in the community. This leads me to think they would want the game to remain fun, keep advancing, and build a player base rather than lose it due to some stupid "I DIDN'T GET WHAT I WANTED qq".

I've only seen a few updates and such, but the opinions on them have certainly not been unanimous, and whether they were for or against it the opinions were not all that well thought out either.

Do I feel the game is perfect? Pretty close actually. It is still in beta after all. But I can't imagine handling this on top of other things in life (since this gig isn't bringing home the bacon) is a walk in the park. So yes, I think my opinion matters and that they are doing the best they can to make sure it is put to use.
 

HellzHere

Member
I will address each of your points in order.

Every developer, including yourself, has said that player hosted servers are not an option due to legal issues. In fact, it would be great to have you clear this up, seeing as how I'm not sure what's changed. If nothing has changed, then shouldn't we already have player hosted servers? You would think that giving the community the ability to host and mod would be a high development priority. What's Preventing it? Why has it been put off? Server control also falls under this. What exactly is holding back server control? I've noticed a lot of changes to Legions, none of which relate to these issues. It seems to be a high priority item that has been overlooked.

Modding goes back to player hosting again. What exactly is holding this up? You don't seem to respond to the points I'm making, you merely say, "We're going to do it."

As for advertising, why don't we spread the word about Legions then? Every post in the forums suggesting this has been discouraged. It would seem counterintuitive if we want get new players.

Are you confirming that three people contribute the majority of the changes to Legions? Which then confirms the fact that very few people actually contribute to the development of Legions.

Legions used to be fun, but it's not a community game anymore. Let's be honest, a lot of private testers have given up on the game. Most of the people interested in helping are completely ignored by the development team. Their opinions don't matter.

Currently we receive updates when you make them. I for one would like to hear what you're working on. Not see it as you push it onto the test servers. Our input is an afterthought, not involved in the process at all. What do you want for Legions? Player hosted servers! Well here's a grenade. Thanks for listening to the community dev team.

On the note of adding people to the development team. Most of the community is on the team, why the hell don't you just open the whole project up? Obviously it's not a private matter at this point. Might as well have complete transparency.

Your whole argument is full of hypocrisy. You say player hosted servers are an option, and yet they're no where to be seen. You say that we can advertise, and for some reason we don't. You say that the development team is growing, and yet it really only has three main members. Show me change, or even that you're working on these issues, and I'd have some faith, but all I've seen is simple content changes and a controlling development team.

hmmm i dont know man, maybe the fact hat that the devs have constantly said that the source code is messed up and to make it "clean" etc will take a long time and distract them from actul gameplay features. If they all spent there time cleaning up the source code so we can host servers, which will take a long time we wont have any of the maps or features we have currently

Man floks all your points in this post, but in like every post on the 1st page the devs have already adressed with clear answers and the whole community understands. Just read the forum,read the blog, what i said above bout the player hosted servers the devs already said somewhere.

Oh yea about the advertising bit, ITS UNFINISHED. DOES MICROSOFT GO AN REALEASE AN UNFINSHED HALO?

Tbh i cba to respond to a piece of crap from a guy who clearly knows nothing
 

Sharp

Private Tester
They're doing this pro-bono. I'll give them suggestions/criticism, and I'll leave when I'm busy or the game no longer becomes fun.
 
yea but there not releasing it yet, they are realising it next year AS A FINSHED PRODUCT. Currently this game is not finshed, and advertising an unfinished product that has been released is stupid
Ever heard of an open beta? And oh yeah, you can still play legions, while it's unfinished. Huh?
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
I completely understand where you are coming from Floks. I'll try to give some imput to the best of my ability.
Maps: We need variety.
In my opinion, the dev team has been doing a good job pumping out new maps. Sure some of them have variety issues but we have priviously given them imput which resulted in changes. I'm sure that further changes and maps will be made in the future.
Server control
I think I remember reading the State of the Empire address telling us of future updates concerning votekick and server control in the hands of the players. While not much has been done concerning this, I still have faith the it is on the dev's list.
Advertising: We have no money, and legally cannot advertise to attract more players. Moot.
We can advertise the game all we want, the devs just feel insecure about releasing any advertisement campaigns for this game yet. My perspective of it was: What if people see an advertisement of the game, and come to an unfinished product? They would either be frustrated by the steep learning curve or the lack of depth as it is at the moment. I have to agree with the devs in this point, because I would rather advertise a game full of depth and variety than an unfinished shell. Yeah, we're losing players, but I hope that the players who have taken a hiatus from the game are willing to come back once all of the issues are fixed.

From what I can see, three people implement changes in Legions. DeadGuy decides on content, Mabeline codes these changes, and Greaper updates the servers. That is your development team, basically.
Yes, I do agree with the fact the the developers have a small community. However, is it necessarily easy to gain these community members? Many of the members of our community aren't very proficient with coding or things that they are looking for, or else they would receive more applications. Where else would they come from?

I will address each of your points in order.Modding goes back to player hosting again. What exactly is holding this up? You don't seem to respond to the points I'm making, you merely say, "We're going to do it."
I would like to see clarification on this topic as well.
Release the game to the community.
Oh no no no....I could imagine so much problems with this. I would prefer the development from the dev community.
 

BugsPray

Legions Developer

I will address each of your points in order.

Every developer, including yourself, has said that player hosted servers are not an option due to legal issues. In fact, it would be great to have youclear this up, seeing as how I'm not sure what's changed. If nothing has changed, then shouldn't we already have player hosted servers? You would think that giving the community the ability to host and mod would be a high development priority. What's Preventing it? Why has it been put off? Server control also falls under this. What exactly is holding back server control? I've noticed a lot of changes to Legions, none of which relate to these issues. It seems to be a high priority item that has been overlooked.
I believe I spoke about player-hosted servers and some of the legality behind it on Legions Overlive and this thread. I also talked about a fundamental shift in the way we approach development and the future of Legions in the State of the Empire Address. How does this answer your question? I'll summarize: Because of the nature of our agreement with IA, we were going to be keeping everyone occupied until IA decided they wanted their game back. After IA went away, there was a grey area as to how everything was going to work. Since March, we decided to open up what we were going to do in order to operate in that grey area - client-side modding and player-hosted servers are prime examples of things that were added to the feature list in March. We also decided to operate more transparently because of user feedback, and based on the comments in this thread from the other users and the votes in this thread, it sounds like we're doing a better job than we were. :)

Modding goes back to player hosting again. What exactly is holding this up? You don't seem to respond to the points I'm making, you merely say, "We're going to do it."
Well, this is the double-edged sword of knowing our plan. If we don't tell you our plans, and it shows up one day, you're mad that you didn't get feedback into its creation. If we tell you our plans as soon as we know them, then you may sit their waiting for certain features that aren't implemented immediately after they're announced, and then you get mad that it's taking so long.

As for advertising, why don't we spread the word about Legions then? Every post in the forums suggesting this has been discouraged. It would seem counterintuitive if we want get new players.
You can spread the word if you'd like. We tend to recommend that if there are lots of features to be added and the game is going to be made a lot better, let's put our best foot forward and give them the works. We receive a lot of feedback from people saying the game doesn't feel finished and there's not a lot to do. We want to remedy those two things and other things in order to make the initial experience for players much better, and to add depth that keeps people around. That is why, as a dev team, we're not going to waste any resources we have to advertise a game that still needs quite a LOT of improvements, features, and polish. If both the team and the community can concentrate their advertising efforts with a unified push and a solid game to back it up, we feel it will be much more effective than the alternative.

Are you confirming that three people contribute the majority of the changes to Legions? Which then confirms the fact that very few peopleactually contribute to the development of Legions.
We all perform different tasks and have different levels of commitment based on our availability. There is no reason to 'rank' people on the team based on that because it's volunteer work and I'm not going to belittle the work they've done, small or large, in order to answer your question.

Legions used to be fun, but it's not a community game anymore. Let's be honest, a lot of private testers have given up on the game. Most of the people interested in helping are completely ignored by the development team. Their opinions don't matter.
I think you still have yet to prove that we are not listening to feedback. Your poll seems to suggest popular opinion is to the contrary.

Currently we receive updates when you make them. I for one would like to hear what you're working on. Not see it as you push it onto the test servers. Our input is an afterthought, not involved in the process at all. What do you want for Legions? Player hosted servers! Well here's a grenade. Thanks for listening to the community dev team.
As I mentioned above, members of the dev team serve different functions. Sometimes this means only one person can do a certain thing. GReaper can't model or texture objects, and Poponfu can't modify the server executable code. If we have someone capable of working on grenades who can't work on player-hosted servers, should we just make them sit around until we have the servers to be done? No. That's why we work on things in parallel, and even though a major feature might not come out before a minor one, it doesn't mean we've dedicated all of our resources toward the minor feature - we're just using the resources we have efficiently.

On the note of adding people to the development team. Most of the community is on the team, why the hell don't you just open the whole project up? Obviously it's not a private matter at this point. Might as well have complete transparency.
Legions is not an open-source game. Given the current license agreement, it never will be an open-source game. Allowing for client and server-side modding does not mean it's open source, so those things we can give to you.

Your whole argument is full of hypocrisy. You say player hosted servers are an option, and yet they're no where to be seen.
They're more than an option - they're going to happen. I never said that they are here now, I said we're working on them. That does not make me a hypocrite, it only makes me correct.

You say that we can advertise, and for some reason we don't.
You can advertise all you'd like. The dev team isn't spending any resources on it right now. Again, that does not make me a hypocrite.

You say that the development team is growing, and yet it really only has three main members.
You claim that you don't know what's going on behind the scenes with the dev team, and that we're not transparent enough about what we're doing, and yet you claim you know exactly who does what and how much work they're doing. I see hypocrisy in that, not in what I've said. Either way, the dev team fluctuates in size and people contribute different amounts at different times. It's the nature of volunteer projects.

Show me change, or even that you're working on these issues, and I'd have some faith, but all I've seen is simple content changes and a controlling development team.
I did ask you before how we can better inform the community. We gave a clear plan of what was coming down the pipe in the State of the Empire Address, and the only blog posts after that have been in support of our progress on it. We've satisfied 3 of the 7 things we've outlined and are publicly testing the 4th, and we've already said we're working on the last 3. We aren't going to give you a timeline because, being a volunteer project, things get done earlier or later than expected.


My points have nothing to do with the games popularity. It has to do with the communities involvement, and how the game is being developed. I've seen very little community impact on this games progress. Asking for opinions does not translate to listening to those opinions. I talk about people dropping out, and no one coming in. The only changes to this game have been content based. There have been zero changes aimed at giving the community more access to this game.
This statement is also completely false. Client-side modifications were added with Legions: Overdrive and were not available on the IA version of Legions. This is one of two things we're doing to open things up to you all - the second being player-hosted dedicated servers, which we're currently working on.

Half of what you say is blatantly untrue. It appears you do not read the blog. It might do you well to do some research on blog and the forum before you make these unsubstantiated claims.
 

HellzHere

Member


Well, this is the double-edged sword of knowing our plan. If we don't tell you our plans, and it shows up one day, you're mad that you didn't get feedback into its creation. If we tell you our plans as soon as we know them, then you may sit their waiting for certain features that aren't implemented immediately after they're announced, and then you get mad that it's taking so long.

You can spread the word if you'd like. We tend to recommend that if there are lots of features to be added and the game is going to be made a lot better, let's put our best foot forward and give them the works. We receive a lot of feedback from people saying the game doesn't feel finished and there's not a lot to do. We want to remedy those two things and other things in order to make the initial experience for players much better, and to add depth that keeps people around. That is why, as a dev team, we're not going to waste any resources we have to advertise a game that still needs quite a LOT of improvements, features,


Tutorials! I have played many shooters, and they were so easy to get used to and learn. I didnt even read the manual, legions has a steep learning curve...
 

Libra

Member
thank the devs for everything they have done, when this game was down everyone wanted it back it's back now just be glad and happy that people are willing to dedicate time out of there lives to work on this game, they are the best group of developers a gamer can ask for thank you for everything
 

Floks

Member
thank the devs for everything they have done, when this game was down everyone wanted it back it's back now just be glad and happy that people are willing to dedicate time out of there lives to work on this game, they are the best group of developers a gamer can ask for thank you for everything
Are you kidding me?
 

Libra

Member
im not kidding you at the end of the day they spend time on this game if u have such a problem why dont u get a group of ppl together who have the knowledge and skills in game development to help the devs out if not then shut up
 
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