phanakapan
Private Tester
I feel like weighing in, but I am basically going to ramble...
There are a lot of problems with capping right now, from an offense and defensive point of view (infinite IFFs, llamas, OD front routes, etc.) The IFF issue is apparently being fixed so I won't go into that. Llamas will always be a part of the game, and are sometimes an important part (egrabs), but good defenses seem to counter it pretty well so I wont go into that. The front OD routes are my main issue with the game currently.
In a game like tribes, fast and sneaky routes were a must. running front routes was either prevented by base assets, or required the capper to go behind the base with the flag and use the terrain to turn around, making the return take much longer than a side or back cap. sure you had exceptions, like beacon jumping and grenade jumps, but those took quite a bit of precision and skill to pull off.
generally speaking, the point of running routes is to maximize the potential to cap. Side routes are much faster (and after the IFFs are fixed, also sneakier) meaning that if you do grab you have a much higher chance of making it home to your base than with a slow route. they are harder to chase, harder to snipe, and generally have faster return routes to your flag. It's a given that side routes generally take about twice as long to get to the flag and they require teamwork and timing as well, but in legions what are the benefits?
The problem in legions is the addition of OD and the map design. I think OD has some great aspects, like OD blocking in the field or when people use it on gorge or core to run routes through the bases, but every map seems to promote the idea of a wide open flag stand and big bowls right in between the bases that make OD front routes a must. The current maps/bases combined with OD just make the game so linear. With the addition of OD, spamming front routes has basically become the only viable strategy. why waste twice as much time and require a few people to play LO, when you can just send your whole offense on chain front caps where there really isn't any downside. Sure they are easy to see coming, sure OD hurts the capper, but no defense is going to be able to hold up to 4 competent OD cappers forever. Even if they grab and die, the flag is always on the same basic linear path, so the next capper can get a pickup or force a return without deviating off their route. Not to mention, with 3 or 4 cappers there will be a capper coming in every few seconds. It's a matter of quantity vs. quality and without the hard limitations present in tribes.
I know its sort of just bitching, but I really liked the fact that in tribes the offense had to coordinate and even grabbing the flag was a big deal. capouts were much more rare than they are in legions, often games were 1-0 or 2-1. standoffs (without turtling) really didn't happen that often relatively speaking. It seems like grabbing the flag in legions is altogether too easy, and capping most of the time comes at the end of a standoff. its all chaos instead of timing and teamwork.
I would love to see bases and maps that made front OD spam next to impossible and make OD more of a niche move (something tricky or used to block people). I would love to see the action get spread out more across the map. Longer returns means more time to chase/cutoff a capper (i know i hate double rocket jumping on zenith and barely being able to catch a relatively average speed OD capper before theyre at their base). I would love to see the flag become more of a choke point where offenses really have to work together to clear everything out for a capper to grab.
Anyway, tldr; i know...flame away.
There are a lot of problems with capping right now, from an offense and defensive point of view (infinite IFFs, llamas, OD front routes, etc.) The IFF issue is apparently being fixed so I won't go into that. Llamas will always be a part of the game, and are sometimes an important part (egrabs), but good defenses seem to counter it pretty well so I wont go into that. The front OD routes are my main issue with the game currently.
In a game like tribes, fast and sneaky routes were a must. running front routes was either prevented by base assets, or required the capper to go behind the base with the flag and use the terrain to turn around, making the return take much longer than a side or back cap. sure you had exceptions, like beacon jumping and grenade jumps, but those took quite a bit of precision and skill to pull off.
generally speaking, the point of running routes is to maximize the potential to cap. Side routes are much faster (and after the IFFs are fixed, also sneakier) meaning that if you do grab you have a much higher chance of making it home to your base than with a slow route. they are harder to chase, harder to snipe, and generally have faster return routes to your flag. It's a given that side routes generally take about twice as long to get to the flag and they require teamwork and timing as well, but in legions what are the benefits?
The problem in legions is the addition of OD and the map design. I think OD has some great aspects, like OD blocking in the field or when people use it on gorge or core to run routes through the bases, but every map seems to promote the idea of a wide open flag stand and big bowls right in between the bases that make OD front routes a must. The current maps/bases combined with OD just make the game so linear. With the addition of OD, spamming front routes has basically become the only viable strategy. why waste twice as much time and require a few people to play LO, when you can just send your whole offense on chain front caps where there really isn't any downside. Sure they are easy to see coming, sure OD hurts the capper, but no defense is going to be able to hold up to 4 competent OD cappers forever. Even if they grab and die, the flag is always on the same basic linear path, so the next capper can get a pickup or force a return without deviating off their route. Not to mention, with 3 or 4 cappers there will be a capper coming in every few seconds. It's a matter of quantity vs. quality and without the hard limitations present in tribes.
I know its sort of just bitching, but I really liked the fact that in tribes the offense had to coordinate and even grabbing the flag was a big deal. capouts were much more rare than they are in legions, often games were 1-0 or 2-1. standoffs (without turtling) really didn't happen that often relatively speaking. It seems like grabbing the flag in legions is altogether too easy, and capping most of the time comes at the end of a standoff. its all chaos instead of timing and teamwork.
I would love to see bases and maps that made front OD spam next to impossible and make OD more of a niche move (something tricky or used to block people). I would love to see the action get spread out more across the map. Longer returns means more time to chase/cutoff a capper (i know i hate double rocket jumping on zenith and barely being able to catch a relatively average speed OD capper before theyre at their base). I would love to see the flag become more of a choke point where offenses really have to work together to clear everything out for a capper to grab.
Anyway, tldr; i know...flame away.
What a shame! Good stuff, phan, and I agree totaly.
