Clearing The Only Limitation To Character Movement Physics.

Mahidhar

Member
Hey guys, it's Maxter again, with another one of his crazy ideas. All of us here, know why we love to play Legions, and choose to play it, over many other FPS games out there. There's barely any depth to the game, except for decent looking maps, but what really makes it fun, is the player physics we've all been accustomed to. The combination of friction-less jets, and the basic jump, run and strafe, made movement in Legions, far flexible compared to any other game we've seen out there so far(atleast for me, it is). Still, there is yet one thing, that seems to be missing, when it comes to character movement physics.

The idea: Have you ever noticed, that when you play the game, your character, is vertically aligned in the game. Meaning, no matter how maneuverable you think your character maybe, you can never really control the character body itself to move freely, i.e. to rotate by itself. When you think about it, you'll notice that the animations of the ski rods impersonate, the movements you make in the game. When you normally jet up, the ski rods actually tilt downwards, notifying you, that they are pushing the body armor upwards. Similarly, when you jet down, they tilt upwards, signifying the downward movement of the character body. Therefore I've always felt, that there should be a method where the character body can be rotated, using the ski rods. I know this sounds a bit strange, but I believe it adds depth and a realistic feel to the movement in Legions. Just for the sake of discussion, I'm naming this "Sky-Axis"(ability to rotate oneself freely in Legions).

Uses: Any idea, especially one, which is based on physics, like this one, needs to be useful, otherwise it would just be, a waste of time, to implement. But first, let me remind you that this is just an idea, and not the actual thing. I've only thought out a few interesting features, this game may have because of Sky-Axis, but I can't really say that they will work out, just as intended, practically. In fact, nothing does.

1. Enhanced Aim: The first and the most basic enhancement, one will notice in Legions, while using Sky-Axis is, the ability to consistently aim at targets. In all our chasing days, we've found ourselves to be chasing the enemy flag carrier, and gaining more speed than he has. We would then be forced to slow down, and try to match his pace, as we just want to stay on his back, and finish him off. There would also be scenarios, where the enemy Capper is floating above us, and we can't aim perfectly, because of the limitation of the vertical free look. Therefore, when you apply the Sky-Axis, you will be able to tilt backwards(all the way, if you want to), without the vertical limit and aim consistently. Meaning, if you turn your head backwards vertically, to a 45 degree angle, you will gain an extra 45 degree aiming angle to the top.

Another, and probably a better example would be, when the enemy Capper is taking the same route as you, and is approaching you. There is a chance that, he will pass you, by floating above you. Therefore, by using the Sky-Axis, you'll be able to turn quite a lot, while still being able to shoot at him consistently.

Now, we all remember the time when we used to Rocket Jump, just by pointing downwards in the IA's build of Legions. But, ever since the net fix was done, it's not as effective as it was back then. The reason to this is because the timing to the Rocket Jump is more appropriate, and instantaneous than it was in the IA build. So, when you point downwards and Rocket Jump, you will gain speed, but not significantly, although noticeable amount of height is gained. This happens because when a person tries to downward RJ, some of the splash will hit the player from the front, giving the situation, a sort of speed bump effect. This loss is inversely proportional to the speed of the character. Therefore, at higher speeds, the loss/speed bump effect, is reduced. That is why, it is effective for any player to make a quick 180 degree turn, shoot a rocket and turn back.

Here, by applying Sky-Axis, the player may shift the axis of the character, 45 degrees forward, therefore gaining an extra 45 degree aiming angle at his feet(note: it doesn't have to be exactly 45 degrees, as it is just an example, although the angle may be used to obtain the optimal balance between height and speed). He may then completely rid himself off of forward splash effect.

There is also an alternative to the hand grenade jump, if the player just requires speed, at the start of his route(or when he needs to get a quick start to the enemy base, without having to put up with the slow initiation of routes). Consider one of the towers, in either base on Zenith Cauldron map. For front routes, most Cappers would jump, and jet down to the slope in front of the base, from the tower. So to attain a quick start, the player would jump from the tower, while staying close to it's wall, and just after that, he will align himself, in parallel to the ground, so his feet are facing the wall of the tower, and rocket jumps.

2. Enhanced Overdrive: Sky-Axis allows for extensive use of Overdrive, in Legions. Players would be able to perform aerobatic maneuvers, with their characters, using the Sky-Axis ability. Now, imagine catching the flag with some of those maneuvers from the link, although, this would require few adjustments, to the current Overdrive physics. Such as; the vertical Overdrive limit, where when a Raider tries to Overdrive, higher than the usual 30 degree angle(maybe even 45, I'm not sure), the Overdrive simply breaks. You may remove the angular limit, and replace it with a time limit. Something similar to the amount of time given, when the player overdrives while pointing upwards. The player would then have time to perform, and complete such maneuvers.

Another adjustment which could prove to be interesting is to let walls be acknowledged as Overdrive initiators, just as any other horizontal surface. This would not make it possible, for the character to simply Overdrive off the wall without using the Sky-Axis. So, for him to do that, the player, before his character hits the wall, must shift his axis in such a way, that the character's feet will touch the wall, when collided, and then he may activate Overdrive. I believe this will give way, to various new and interesting methods of Overdrive Capping(may prove to be useful to Cappers, when defensive deployments are introduced).
 

Mahidhar

Member
3. Enhanced Flight: By now, your mind should have grasped the basic idea of this ability, and if you're guessing it, this is basically the normal skiing, but with the use of Sky-Axis. Sky-Axis will now allow you, to actually dive into a slope, rather than just down jet. Therefore, with the help of the normal movement keys, this will allow you total freedom of flight, where your Up Jet and Down Jet, constantly switch places. This is all in theory, but this should reduce, all that long range parabolic, bunny hops, and let you move in directions without too much speed loss. More like Overdrive maneuverability, but with a much larger required curve, for speed maintainability.

Moving sideways, shifting directions, almost everything is affected with the use of Sky-Axis, or should I say enhanced.

So, these are some of the features, that may take effect, when Sky-Axis is implemented. Having said that, I have my own method of the ability's implementation.

Implementation: I have based my whole thread, and all the examples mentioned in it, on this configuration. Sky-Axis would work on a "Hold button and move mouse" principle. When we normally move the mouse, we only move towards, left and right directions, and not up and down. But with Sky-Axis, the character will be able to move in all four directions freely, and when any two adjacent direction controls are combined, it will result in a diagonal movement(i.e holding down Left button, while moving mouse upwards, will result in a Up-Left movement, therefore allowing the character to turn in 360 degrees with different direction combinations). Let us assume that "alt" key is the button used to activate the Sky-Axis. All your movements will work normally as long as you do not press the Alt key. But when you do, the character will start moving the axis of his whole body, instead of just his reticule and the weapon. While in this mode, the weapon and reticule, face upwards, next to the body. In other words, the weapon stays parallel to the body. But when the Alt key is released, the position/axis of the body does not revert back to vertical alignment, but will allow the weapon to be moved freely. Now, with this in mind, refer to my first example, and replay the situation in your mind, you should get the basic idea of it's working.

So, if you're trying to do that horizontal wall rocket jump, from the tower, you would first need to hold the Alt key and align yourself, parallel to the ground, then leave the key, while quickly looking at the character's feet, and firing. But once, you've successfully performed the wall rocket jump, you would want to revert back to the normal, vertical alignment. So, here's the solution. By double tapping the Alt key(it may be a different key, as key bindings are players' choice), your character would be resettled to the basic vertical alignment. You may also reset yourself manually, but since your character will be able to rotate in a 360 degree axis, getting his feet to the ground in the right time, might be difficult and even inaccurate.

Rules: Obviously, there should be atleast some drawbacks, to this ability.
1. Touching any surface with anything, other than your feet will result in slight but constant damage. Damage is directly proportional to the speed of the character. Similar to fall damage vs speed.
2. Turning to a direction, other than the original traveling direction, will result in the character to face to the turned direction, after reset.
3. Turning more than 90 degrees backward, from the vertical alignment, and resetting the position will result in character facing the backward direction.
4. Normal fall damage is still applied to the character, when performing the wall overdrive. Damage is derived from the speed at which the character, hits the wall, hence forcing the player to slow down and come close to Overdrive requirement speed, before hitting the wall. This makes the wall overdrive difficult to pull off, while attaining minimum damage.

Well, that's all there is to it. Please do post your opinions.
 

Lin

Member
I think the only problem here would be controlling the rotation. I can imagine some really sick moves where you flip sideways and upjet to the side, but we can't exactly just move our mice to the side. Providing another axis of rotation means another set of controls.
 

Mahidhar

Member
Only problem with this idea, is one coding it all, especially seeing as the developers are busy with over stuff, and two, there simply isn't enough keys to control this.

I see that you did not understand, most of what my posts put forth.

Firstly, you don't know how much coding it would require(or are you a coder yourself?), as the application is very simple. The reason I did not mention about the amount of effort it would require, because I have no clue how physics calculations are done and implemented in a game. I know integrating powerful AI into a game would take immense time and effort, but this is a completely different aspect.

Secondly, go read the Implementation part again.

Interesting. I suppose we can now go backwards and turn faster.

Not just backward movement, but pretty much any type you can ever come up with, if it can work, as intended. In a nut shell, movement will be as fluid as it is, for a fish underwater.

Really nice idea Mahidhar!

Thanks. Looking forward to developers' opinions.
 

Mahidhar

Member
I think the only problem here would be controlling the rotation. I can imagine some really sick moves where you flip sideways and upjet to the side, but we can't exactly just move our mice to the side. Providing another axis of rotation means another set of controls.

Again, there is no need for any extra set of controls. While holding down the Alt(Sky-Axis) button, your mouse will represent 4 axis keys, while you use your A and D keys for sideways movement, not to mention S and W will become your upward and downward keys. Pretty much like how jet plane flying is handled in GTA: San Andreas game. Your character may not do side flips(which I think, has no point to, except for show off), but you'll be able to control the character's flight path, way better than you now normally control him.
 

Lin

Member
I don't see how i missed that the first time. :rolleyes: It's a great idea.

on another note, I actually meant that the player would be banking to the side, not flipping. As in he would be sideways in the air, with his feet pointing to the opposite side, allowing him to use upjets to provide sideways motion
 

Mahidhar

Member
I don't see how i missed that the first time. :rolleyes: It's a great idea.

on another note, I actually meant that the player would be banking to the side, not flipping. As in he would be sideways in the air, with his feet pointing to the opposite side, allowing him to use upjets to provide sideways motion

Actually, thank you for the question. I made a small error, about the direction, the weapon should be facing, because that defines, where you're looking at. I've corrected it now.

As for your question, yes, you can still bank sideways(if you're talking about the aero-plane type banking), by pressing the A and D buttons, while in Sky-Axis mode, although there is no reason to use it, in this mode. It's like using A and D buttons, while moving forward in Overdrive, instead of just using the mouse to turn(even though in truth, none of the directional keys work in Overdrive, this was just an example).
 
The alt key seems a bit tricky to press when you have your pointing and ring finger on the A and D keys.

Forgive me if this was in the OP, but is there any way to reset your axis?
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
Still seems a very complex idea, and would make the learning curve of the game go up even higher. I don't know if it is worth the developers even taking a look at this, as it would take time & energy and completely change the way Legions plays. Its a safe bet to assume that the developers are happy with the current movement systen in legions as they haven't changed it even a little bit.
 

Mahidhar

Member
Still seems a very complex idea, and would make the learning curve of the game go up even higher.

Please read your own comments in others' threads, when you make a suggestion next time? It is a small and simple idea. I just laid out various applications to it, to show how it can be used in the game, and how it would affect it(something, I believe everyone must do when putting forth ideas). Therefore, there is more reason for the developers to consider my suggestion. The only reason, it sounds complex to you, is because you haven't understood it yet, and by the sound of it, it seems to me that, you don't even want to. True, the learning curve will become a lot more steeper, than it already is, but that is unavoidable, as depth is added to any game. You will see generators and turrets, added to the game, and they won't be setup with a click of a button. They take time to build, maintain and destroy. They might be at places, in a map, that require the whole team, to work together in taking them out. That itself, adds plenty of depth to the game, making the learning curve go much steeper.

I don't know if it is worth the developers even taking a look at this, as it would take time & energy and completely change the way Legions plays.

Please tell me, what doesn't take time and effort? Should people's ideas be in such a way, that they would be doable in an hour, with a few settings? If so, then they wouldn't be ideas anymore, just requests for small modifications.

Its a safe bet to assume that the developers are happy with the current movement systen in legions as they haven't changed it even a little bit.

With this, I think it's safe to assume too, that you haven't bothered reading my post at all. Movement system in Legions, is, right now, the only reason why this game has ticked, for so long. The developers didn't make any changes to it, because they couldn't see where it required a change, as it is a near-perfect system, making it hard to spot, any changeable areas.

Anyway, for what it's worth, thank you for your feedback.
 

57thKB24

Member
I like this idea, it gives more versatility and interesting features to the classes. Do these things could be applied in a Heavy?
 

Mahidhar

Member
I like this idea, it gives more versatility and interesting features to the classes. Do these things could be applied in a Heavy?

An interesting question, although I've asked this myself, while writing this idea. Let me remind you two things; 1. Sky-Axis provides 360 degree turning capability 2. Heavies have Instant OD. Now, combine the both of them, and the capacity for the HoF to do flag passing, is taken to the next level.

A heavy normally has the most minimal amount of time, to spend in air, without the help of iOD, therefore unlike Raiders and Outriders, heavy cannot do complex in-air maneuvers.

Heavies might have an added advantage to blocking, when on defense, as iOD is dependent on quick turns, but I cannot really say anything more than that. All these things need to be done practically, and observed in person, before we try and discuss the deeper topics of the ability.
 

Xtreme

shaska's bff
I had actually thought of this a long time ago, but never really knew how to put it in words. Good job! It'd be nice to have the keybindings all figured out, or at least have the coding be done in a way that doesn't require extra keybindings. Then it may actually be viable.
 

Mahidhar

Member
I had actually thought of this a long time ago, but never really knew how to put it in words. Good job! It'd be nice to have the keybindings all figured out, or at least have the coding be done in a way that doesn't require extra keybindings. Then it may actually be viable.
You don't. Read the Implementation part in my 2nd post, and thanks.
 

Delpicy

Member
Apart from the fact that Mahidhar rages at everyone who opposes this idea, I do think it has great potential and validity. Great idea Mahidhar (please don't kill me)
 
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