Why Tribes?

Calimo

Member
First off... as many old Tribes player may already feel... That new tribes... will probably NOT feel like Tribes. It may share the same title, but it will not be the same game. Many of us have been let down enough times since the originals release. so we will not quickly... all rush out the door.... to it.

There are not many games out there like Tribes or Legions.... except.... Tribes and Legions. I personally have never found a game just like them.

So when you have ONE game... that can only be truly compared to ONE game... its hard not to compare them.

I personally believe the players coming from Tribes have more experience about what can or can not work in Legions... or at least a better basic understanding.

Legions was even called "The Spiritual successor" of tribes. Now a Successor (Legions) is a person "Who takes over the obligations and/or rights of another (the predecessor(Tribes)). So many people coming from Tribes, can find it hard to swallow that the "Spiritual successor" is not succeeding much more than the basics of tribes.(personal preference of different players... I am not speaking for the entire tribes community that migrated here over time at all!)

I do not believe many old Tribes players want a "rinse and repeat" of Tribes. It will not realistically work, Tribes has been done already. But that does not mean some of the ideas that worked EXTREMELY well in tribes cannot work in legions. Maybe some of the people who have a problem with this should do as what others are suggesting.. instead of posting... go play tribes for more than a day. it takes more than 5 hours of game play to fully appreciate the game's "simple complexity".

Legions is good as it is right now. It's a lot of fun, and I enjoy it very much. But I believe if we fuse it with some of the more popular ideas from Tribes... We could make it an even greater game.

DISCLAIMER: to any devs that may read this. I am not saying you're not doing hard enough work or anything like that, I fully understand that the game is in beta and you plan to add more things as time goes on, and it can take a lot of time for these changes to take effect. And honestly I feel all of you are doing a terrific job. Many props to you.
 

Shanks

Private Tester
I'm not comparing Tribes with Legions, I'm comparing Tribes to other, more widely-known games. Of course Legions is at the bottom of the food chain. All I said before was that you can't add features from a game that wasn't a great success in the first place (don't confuse success with the emotionally blinding experience you had when playing tribes).

As for suggestions, I'm actually a creative person. I could come up with something if I tried and had the time to do so. I am currently trying to offer all I can. It seems as if I am eliminating all suggestions that have been made so far. But that's not true. For instance I would definitely like to see the health pack being implemented (and that's from Tribes). Duel mod also sounds great. And there's more I'm willing to listen to.

But in the end it's not me who makes the decisions, so why bother calling me "ignorant" or "raging" in the first place? Because I made a few noisy posts on the forums? Big deal! It's just my opinion, if you don't like it, don't read it ;)


Tribes 1 was a fairly good success if you take into account how underground it was. There was no huge advertising campaign for the game. You also have to keep in mind that any sales figures for t1 are skewed by the fact that t1 got the *chocolate cookies* pirated out of it.
 

Hell Phoenix

New Member
As Shanks said, you can't look at success with regards to sales numbers.

Tribes came out in 1998 and didn't sell all too well. Like Shanks said though, the game was heavily pirated and got a huge following. The game had thousands of players at its peak and eventually led to over three sequels [one obviously currently being developed]. Tribes 2 alone had over 1 million copies sold. So how could Tribes not have been a success? It spawned a series of games that had huge followings and at its peak, had thousands of players online at any given time. Given that [as Shanks stated], it really had no advertising campaign to promote it the word-of-mouth praise this game got was successful enough to make the game huge enough for developers to pick it up and develop a series of sequels.
 

Fixious

Test Lead
All I said before was that you can't add features from a game that wasn't a great success in the first place

How does this make any sense?

I'm going to assume you're basing your stance on Tribes not being a 'success' because it didn't sell well, correct? This is largely because of the game's DRM, or lack there-of. It has literally NO DRM to speak of. If I remember correctly, Dynamix stated they sold roughly 210k copies of the game, yet had around a million players thanks to pirating and such. Hell even I took advantage of the lack of DRM...

DRM+games like Half-Life are what prevented Tribes from being a huge financial success. Not turrets, mines, deployables, ect. If they were universally hated, then you'd have something to stand on.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
Correct, only the nice ones that fit in, make sense, add more depth, and are generally good for the game.
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
What I was trying to say with this thread is that many of the suggestions come from Tribes and not other sources. I understand that there is only one game Legions is comparable to and I agree that Legions is in need of improvement. However, just because there is one game that is comparable, that doesn't mean that the ideas need to come from there. New ideas, or taking ideas from a game and then giving them such a twist that they aren't recognizable as the originals is what innovation is, and most truly great games have innovation, and take their inspirations from a wide variety of sources. Also, saying that because there isn't any downjet or overdrive in Tribes, that Legions is thus nothing like tribes. Using those two examples alone isn't sufficient. Those are two movement changes. They may have completely changed the playing of the game, but since I can't play Tribes (I'm mac only for now) and don't know the difference without those, I can't say that its a valid argument that those are the only two differences with the addition of deployables, generators and health packs.
Also, saying that Legions is the 'Spiritual Succesor' of Tribes does not actually make it that. If there was a contract that Legions was bounded by law to become the 'spiritual successor' of Tribes, then there would already be these other things, and there wouldn't be so many suggestions sprouting from Tribes. To keep legions as the successor of Tribes is ridiculous. Let the game become something new, and break free of the Tribes suggestions.
I've heard a lot about going off with the "If it makes the game better, we should use it, no matter where it came from." That's fine. I agree with that, but so many ideas are previously used things that could break a faster games like Legions, or be too slow for a game like Legions. I'm against any form of small recon or assault vehicle in Legions because the mobility in Legions is dictated by skill, and any player worth something would be able to outrun a car, and out-maneuver a plane, thus making the points of either quite moot. I am, however, for mobile bases (one of Seymour's pets) and capturable bases (whether that idea came from tribes, I don't know.) Regardless, we need more sources of ideas for suggestions rather than just Tribes. There are suggestions for new content that are far more original, and I like those ideas better right off the bat with less need for convincing. I like them AND they are new. Newer content makes the game seem newer and more innovative, so I'm just calling on people to be less lazy and come up with new things. Of course we can bring some things in from Tribes, but we need new ideas to spruce everything up.

I'm sorry, but it seems Mad King Aerys has already claimed the throne.
On a different note, Mahidhar, I get the reference, but I fail to see how it is relevant.
 

Disci

Old man
Pretty sad that you are not wanting ideas brougt to Legions from a game you have no idea about. Doesn't that sound weird?

It would be really nice if you guys could give out your ideas how Legions should be developed and show that you have thought about things outside of Tribes box. So far I haven't heard anything except from SeymourGore and few of the Omni guys in the old forums and you atleast are the most noisy ones in these forums. Atm the way I see all the text you guys have wrote screams "leave Legions as it is. Add weapons and maps and that's it", which just is not going to be enough to make this game a final product.
 

theGOAT

Member
I believe upgrading the game to make it better its okay no matter where it comes from as long as it keeps the flow of the game nice. If it comes from tribes its okay as long if it fits with legions. But as already said before things such as cars are not necessary.
 

BugsPray

Legions Developer
Most, if not all, of the Legions: Overdrive developers have played Tribes (1, 2, V) on various levels including both casual and competitive. We'll definitely be drawing from our experiences with Tribes and using them to improve Legions, but Legions is not Tribes and will never be Tribes.
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
Pretty sad that you are not wanting ideas brougt to Legions from a game you have no idea about. Doesn't that sound weird?

It would be really nice if you guys could give out your ideas how Legions should be developed and show that you have thought about things outside of Tribes box. So far I haven't heard anything except from SeymourGore and few of the Omni guys in the old forums and you atleast are the most noisy ones in these forums. Atm the way I see all the text you guys have wrote screams "leave Legions as it is. Add weapons and maps and that's it", which just is not going to be enough to make this game a final product.
I haven't played tribes and I don't know much about it, but I have come up with some suggestions and supported others that came from tribes and others that are new ideas. I'm not a "New weapons and new maps and that's it" type of person. I have my opinions on what should be changed and what should be the same. However, I'd like to see more fresher Ideas.

SeymourGore has asked the question "What do people mean by Tribes is Tribes and Legions is Legions?" I may not be the proper person to answer this question as I haven't played Tribes. I will need some time to answer this question for you, Seymour. I'd start right now, but I don't think I have everything yet. I will eventually post my answer to your question.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
*cough* Tethers *cough*

Enough of that, Tribes yielded Legions, which I believe can really revolutionize the genre. If you think of Tribes as the prototype, Legions is the production model (well, sort of :p ). I've never played tribes, but the thing is, Tribes left a huge mark on games like this, and since Legions is the same general type of game, it would make sense for you to take inspiration from it. Sure, copying is bad, but learn from Tribes' success and failures.
 

Disci

Old man
*cough* Tethers *cough*

Enough of that, Tribes yielded Legions, which I believe can really revolutionize the genre. If you think of Tribes as the prototype, Legions is the production model (well, sort of :p ). I've never played tribes, but the thing is, Tribes left a huge mark on games like this, and since Legions is the same general type of game, it would make sense for you to take inspiration from it. Sure, copying is bad, but learn from Tribes' success and failures.

Tis is true but Tribes left its mark on pretty much every fps game there is at the moment. :)
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
Disci, is there any way you can back that statement up? Also, Volt, tethers are one of those things I'm talking about with the new ideas, and there are some awesome additions to your initial design, which I love seeing. Something I've noticed with most suggestions, and this is only to be expected since there are the staunch defenders of the original Legions, the Tribes suggestions people and the moderates and 'other' categories, there's a lot of argument about all the suggestions, and perhaps this comes from so many suggestions being things that were used in tribes (not to say that they aren't used in other games, but that's where the people who make these suggestions cite their inspiration) but the tribes import suggestions seem to draw in more controversy. Again, maybe this is me just wanting to see it this way, or perhaps its just because those suggestions are higher in concentration, so simple probability dictates that there are going to be more cases period, but that's just something I myself have noticed.
 
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