Rant - me = troll or them = hypocrites?

MJ1284

Member
I'm really getting tired to debating this ingame so I'll take this on forum.
[RANT INCOMING]

I'm occasionally getting bashed for "ruining" Public matches. How and why I'm doing this? It's complicated.

This scenario has occured to me dozens of times:
My team vs enemy team 0 - 8, Time Remaining 15 minutes. I glance through scoreboard and notice that my team has considerably lower average score (as in 3rd highest score on my team is same as enemy team's lowest score), teams look equally numbered though and hench nobody on enemy team doesn't want to switch because "it would ruin the teambalance" or some *chocolate cookies* like that.
So, I proceed looking through what my teammates are up to: 6 guys staying on defense & showing little to no interest in enemy flag (even if it sits right in front of their noses) and one person randomly skiing around the map. I try to encourage them to go on offense and distract enemy defenders so we might get the flag out of their base some day... no response, everybody is minding their own business.
Enemy keeps llamaing the flag from our base with ease, taking no damage when getting out and of course nobody seems to be interested in chasing the llama. Think this is an interesting match?

One such match ain't bad, but when playing 4th match like that I tend to get frustrated and want to skip such matches ASAP in hopes of getting better team shuffle on next map. I mean it's damn obvious at this point our team ain't gonna win, what's the harm of moving on to more interesting match?
Well, there isn't Change Map -vote, or any other vote option, so only way to make round end before clock reaches zero is to have other team cap 10 times right?
Thing is, if you EVER try to speed up the process by making easy llama grabs & tossing flag at enemy players you'll get yelled at and you get accused for "ruining" the match. How do I know this? Because I've tried it.
And before anybody asks, no I don't resort to such lameness if there's realistic chance my team can get close to tie/maybe even win the match. But no caps & no effort to even distract enemy defenders & no enemy capper chasing, that's not how you score flag captures (if someone wants to correct me I'd want to see some solid proof).

Let's try to recap this situation:
1) My team vs enemy team 0 - 8, Time Remaining 15 minutes.
2) Everybody knows damn well teams aren't fine way they are, but nobody on enemy team has balls to switch if teams are equally numbered (NOTE: Equal numbers != Equal skills).
3) Everybody can see my team isn't doing anything to get their flag and score difference is usually more than noticetable.
4) At this point everybody can determine how this'll end.
5) I decide "Hey, if this map ends now we might get more enjoyable match sooner" and start sabotaging (hell, it's hardly even possible at this situation) my team's play by ensuring enemy has easier time doing necessary caps.
6) I get yelled at for RUINING the match?? What the flying *dance*!?

Seriously, enemy team who has capped EIGHT times within TEN minutes yells at me for making the match boring? After playing seriously up to 8 - 0 I really can't see how I'M the one ruining it.
Sure, under normal circumstances such sabotage is nothing but griefing but come the *dance* on! Reason why it's 8 - 0 in the first place is because teams are totally NOT balanced/one team consist of players that are dumb as bricks and nobody on enemy team bothers to sort this out. Way I see it I'm getting bashed because clearly superior opponent refuses to give handicap in order to make game more interesting, how the hell is it my fault if enemy team is too stubborn to admit there's clear skillgap between two teams?
Is it because enemy team WANTS the match last longer so they can complain later on how bored they got? Someone explain this to me.
[/rant]

Oh, and if you have better approach to such scenario do share, I'll gladly hear how other players would sort this out.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
Well, in my opinion, the only "okay" thing you can do there is leave, or grit your teeth and endure it. Let me try to explain. If you notice that you're on the clearly superior team, it's fine to switch and help the others out. But sabotaging your team is just not right. Yes, the game might not be enjoyable for you, but that doesn't justify griefing. And that's basically what you're doing there. You just have to keep in mind that not everyone is on the same "skill level" (maybe the losing side is actually trying their best, even though it doesn't look like it), and that you can not enforce "good sportmanship". Yes, in situations like this, players from the clearly dominating team could (and maybe should) switch, but they don't have to. If they're not willing to do that it's sad, but well... it's their choice, not yours.

Some games you win, some games you lose. Close games are usually the most enjoyable ones. But sometimes 0-10 pubs (or even PUGs) happen. I'd suggest to either do your best in those situations (and prolong the inevitable), or leave. But sabotaging your team is not a viable option, if you ask me.
 

Sin

Private Tester
I myself (as I'm sure most of you do) know how frustrating it is, many a time I have taken 3 or 4 week breaks from Legions because of the low-quality pubs. I know, play PuGs, but atm I will not play any, because I average 15 FPS, and I simply refuse to lose a game for a team. Yes, getting a new computer within a month. Back on topic: I see where you're coming from, but assisting the enemy team isn't going to do anything except make people made at you. No sense in being mad yourself then bringing other into it, even if they are the cause of your anger. It's just a lose-lose here, nothing much you can do but tough it out.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
Does switching to the enemy team count as sabotaging your team?
If you're switching to the winning team, one could call that sabotaging, yes. There really is no reason to it other than "I don't want to lose". One really shouldn't do that.

If you're switching because it's clear that they're clearly inferior, and because you want to help balancing the game, then the situation is a totally different one.
 
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BugGirl

Wommin of Legions
Ah... well for me it's not "I want to win", it's more "This is frustrating. I want to have fun, and FAST!" Also it's "My team members are brick brains and we have no hope of winning at this point."
... Also I dunno how to quote people.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
There's a little "Reply" button in the lower right corner. That helps with quoting. ;)

And switching to a winning team, no matter how frustrating your current experience is, is not the right thing to do. Like I said: "[...] either do your best in those situations (and prolong the inevitable), or leave [...]".
 
I really understand you MJ that happens to me lots of times and i just switch to cap out the game and clearly the other team know i rage switch
so i don't bother listening to them if they're annoyed because i switched, i just go out there and cap out as soon as possible because these ****************** like to win 10 - 0
i say do whatever you want if your team enjoys playing like that
 

phanakapan

Private Tester
in this situation i have started just switching teams and capping out. sometimes this has the result of actually waking up the competent people on the winning team and they then switch to the losing team and the match becomes much more even and fun. other times the match gets ended quickly and teams get switched up by the server and the next map is a lot more fun. most of the time though, both teams are dominated by 5-7 people who refuse to go offense on standoffs, refuse to chase, and cant escort or play home d for *chocolate cookies* and the map is horrible and boring. I use to rage, but now I just leave and run routes when it becomes clear no one wants to play ctf.
 
I'd like sometimes like to think my brick-brained team mates aren't teamates and just wooden cutouts.
Then it looks epic cuz me and my legion of cut outs are attempting to cap.
 

57thEnryu

Member
I'd like sometimes like to think my brick-brained team mates aren't teamates and just wooden cutouts.
Then it looks epic cuz me and my legion of cut outs are attempting to cap.
I once made a clone cap......took a lot of work, but it happened....

Anyway, if your loosing and you switch you should be ashamed of yourselves. If your winning its normal. Thats the rule I follow, and so should you!
 
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BugGirl

Wommin of Legions
Anyway, if your loosing and you switch you should be ashamed of yourselves. If your winning its normal. Thats the rule I follow, and so should you!
Keh, I refuse to feel bad for switching and capping out a match that's only fun for one side, when there's no longer hope of either winning OR having anything close to a close match, when your team mates aren't helping and you're on your own, and all you can do is charge the base, grab the flag, get shot, respawn, try to chase the dude with your flag, get shot some more, and die repeatedly.
In THAT case, Legions has transformed from something fun into some kind of horrible lesson in futility. The sooner that lesson is over, the better. There's really no need to be a martyr about it. And leaving would probably be the best idea, but then you have to wonder... "What if the next match is better? What if it's actually fun and I miss it? What if the noobs leave and real players join?" and then you look around and there're no other servers with that many people in 'em. So ... I guess that's when you go outside and experience Real Life. Hm.
KEH NO MOAR THINKING
 

MJ1284

Member
If you notice that you're on the clearly superior team, it's fine to switch and help the others out. But sabotaging your team is just not right. Yes, the game might not be enjoyable for you, but that doesn't justify griefing. And that's basically what you're doing there.
I do acknowledge this behaviour counts as griefing, but on hopeless situation such as this I find no reason to put up any effort.
As Disaster & phanakapan said "I switch to winning side and cap it out" I'm practically doing the same thing, only without the teamswitch part, in either case the main goal is to get it over with and move on to (hopefully) more balanced round.

You just have to keep in mind that not everyone is on the same "skill level" (maybe the losing side is actually trying their best, even though it doesn't look like it), and that you can not enforce "good sportmanship". Yes, in situations like this, players from the clearly dominating team could (and maybe should) switch, but they don't have to. If they're not willing to do that it's sad, but well... it's their choice, not yours.
Skillgap is the main reason why games tend to get one sided in the first place and I don't expect everyone to be equally skilled when I join Public server, it would be nice if teams are roughly equal but sometimes you gotta work with what you have.
It's the fact that enemy team makes me the scapegoat in this situation gets to me, if they want to see enjoyable match it's up to them to make it happen. And even then they should react to it way sooner, it doesn't help much if people start looking at scoreboard at 9 - 0 and think "Gee, methinks there's something wrong with teambalance... I'll switch", they should react when they lead by 4-6 caps and my team hasn't even touched the enemy flag.

Some games you win, some games you lose. Close games are usually the most enjoyable ones. But sometimes 0-10 pubs (or even PUGs) happen. I'd suggest to either do your best in those situations (and prolong the inevitable), or leave. But sabotaging your team is not a viable option, if you ask me.

I've been in two PuGs that ended with miserable scores (lost Frostbyte 10 - 0 and won Stygian 10 - 1) but those were caused by poorly implemented team strategies instead of considerable skillgap. We lost Frostbyte because enemy was abusing backroute Sentinel capping and defense didn't counter if effectively and we won Stygian because enemy team had no clue how to run caproutes whereas my side had people who played Dangerous Crossing in one of Tribes -games. Both games were more tolerable than Publics because I knew people were indeed doing their best and both teams got the flag out of enemy base in many occasions (and both games ended before 25 minute mark).

But how does prolonging make the match any better? At that point prolonging feels like rabbiting, useless waste of time that pisses off everybody else. I've seen situations where match is 9 - 0 when everybody on winning side decides to switch and make it intentionally 9 - 9 and oftentimes won't bother balancing teams at that point anymore, I don't see much point in that either.
 

MightySheep

Member
when teams are imba and no one is switching I just switch over to winning side, then it's way more stacked and ppl have got to do something about it

tbh I don't really notice much difference playing on winning or losing team, I just keep capping and killing ppl, the outcome of the game doesnt matter much

getting 4 stacked games in a row is just bad luck, I dont notice it happening very often

Dunno why you would make a big rage thread like this or sabotage the game etc lol just join winning team and then finish the game yourself
 

Propkid

Member
Situation: extremely unfair teams, no effort made in balancing the teams.
If you're on the winning team your options are:
1. Switch
2. Switch
3. Switch

If you're on the losing team your options are:
1. Try hard to make your team win by running a cap monopoly ie. not letting your teammates grab the enemy flag and doing all the flagplay yourself. This is somewhat possible since people who don't try to balance the teams usually suck at the game. (IQ-skill relationship ;p)
2. 'Sabotage' as you've said.
3. Do what I used to do in IA :rolleyes::
-Look around for any admins,​
-Switch to the winning team,​
-Grab the flag​
-RABBIT!/ refuse to cap to gain attention and convey the message to the players (rarely works).​
4. Quit Legions and play another game.
 
I'm really getting tired to debating this ingame so I'll take this on forum.

5) I decide "Hey, if this map ends now we might get more enjoyable match sooner" and start sabotaging (hell, it's hardly even possible at this situation) my team's play by ensuring enemy has easier time doing necessary caps.
6) I get yelled at for RUINING the match?? What the flying *dance*!?

Oh, and if you have better approach to such scenario do share, I'll gladly hear how other players would sort this out.

I am a pub stomper so I know what you are talking about in this situation, though for the most part I cause the problem. We all know most of times, stacked teams come from lazy people like myself who just stay on the team they are on or a clan/butt buddies playing together so I am not going to Make a speech on that part.

You took the "game" into your hands, that is what is pissing people off. If you switched teams to the already stacked teams or just kind of "didn't see" someone grab your flag, they would be less pissed off. The first rule I have for pubs is have fun. The second rule is stop trying to win, fun doesn't always mean winning (que the dramatic music). You have fun by challenging yourself. I tell the people I teach to make rules for themselves when playing. Force limits on yourself so you will naturally adapt: only use cg, only hit people in air with rockets; and my favorite no QQ. Everybody, no matter how good (*cough*we think we are *cough*), can become a little better from limits.

I always have multiple limits on myself unless I am trying something completely new (example is when I was playing with heavy stay at home, not a hof). You will gain 3 things by doing this. You will get naturally better, you will have fun by making the game a challenge, and you will surprise the hell out of people when you release your chains and actually start trying (who will know your real skill level when not even you know it). It will feel so good, you wont want to play without some kind of limit I can almost guarantee it.
 
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