DKnight556
Member
I've read your syntax guide many times but I'm still not able to actually script fluidly. Any other help out there to teach me how to put the syntax into actual script that works?
Question About Game Development
- Thread starter GameDevMich
- Start date
JF_097
Member
Thanks for the speedy reply.
And I got some more Qs if you don't mind:
-What's the use of CSS? (my uncle says that I should start learning HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Which brings us to...)
-Which is better: Javascript or Flash?
-What do you think about GameSalad? It says it requires no coding. Do you recommend it for beginners? http://gamesalad.com/
I
IzRaPiDz
Guest
Lmao, cheers matey :L
Dacil
Member
awesome! thanks for encouraging me! will probably have more Q's in the future
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
All kinds of new material has been showing up on GG.com. One of my favorite community members, who is also a GG Associate, has posted three really awesome tutorials that show really great script:
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/T3D/Tutorials/Tactics-Action_GameType_Tutorial
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/T3D/Tutorials/Fake_Aircraft_Real_Airstrikes
http://www.garagegames.com/community/resources/view/20995
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets. You use it in web development. A lot of people do not give the system a lot of credit for learning code, but it actually closely resembles a core fundamental of C programming: data structures. You need to learn a syntax, data enclosing, assignment, etc.
There is no better between the two. It's a matter of picking the right language/tool for the right job. Flash is a full system you can use to develop games, which includes a visual tool and scripting. If you were to compare the two, you would actually compare Javascript vs ActionScript. You will see Javascript used more often with other game engines. If you are using ActionScript, you are most likely making an entire game in Flash or you are creating special interfaces for games using something like ScaleForm. ScaleForm is a really sick 3rd party software used to make amazing GUIs (graphical user interfaces). Examples include Borderlands and Arkham Asylum.
GameSalad is a solid beginner's tool. If you do not know programming and have no desire to learn it, it's a great choice. You still learn logic, math, tool usage and design. Serious developers will shun it due to the glass ceiling being about 12 inches from the ground, but it cannot be discredited when it comes to intuitive game authoring. It's funny, because it is a direct competitor to my product: iTorque 2D. Both have their merits, but I can guarantee you can get a lot more done with iT2D. If you team up with a programmer who writes behaviors, you can replicate what GameSalad does + more.
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "takes away a lot of the art aspect." If you can explain that, I can probably put you on the right track.
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
Since it is related to topic of learning about game development, I will also post links to two new blog series I will be starting. One will be on AltDevBlogADay (http://altdevblogaday.com/). This is a great site to get more information about game development, straight from the mouths of people making it happen. The articles are frequent and cover a wide range of topics. I will be sending an e-mail to the owner to see if he is interested in me posting about documentation, which is an extremely important topic that does not see much coverage.
The other series will chronicle the game I am making. It's my first serious attempt to make create a game, start to finish, and publish it. It will be very raw and specific to my processes.
The other series will chronicle the game I am making. It's my first serious attempt to make create a game, start to finish, and publish it. It will be very raw and specific to my processes.
Dacil
Member
cool! +bookmarked
RedInk
Member
Well it's my fault for not correctly quoting it. This post, quoted:
"Yeah 3d art isn't for everyone, especially game art. It can be so technical with so many moving parts, it can be hard to just focus on the actual art part of it sometimes."
http://forums.legionsoverdrive.com/threads/portfolio-shots-of-legions-weapons.1505/#post-25511
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
Ahhh. This is funny. I read your post and before I clicked on the link to see who said that I immediately started thinking about our current art team at GG. We have a creative director, a mesh modeler, a rigger and animator, a texture artist and a technical artist. Essentially, we do not have an artist who does everything. Each person is specialized. Guess who our technical artist is? Yup, it's Dr. Flail (the one and only Matt Ostgard). I was going to use him as a reference for this post.
He's pretty much correct. Creating 3D are these days can be very technical. Our creative director, who was also the CCO (chief creative officer at IA) has a massive amount of experience from the games industry. He worked on Command & Conquer, Star Wars galaxies and many other games. He will fully agree with the statement. The guys who spend a lot more time on the art side are typically your concept artists, sketch artists and 2D folks. 3DS Max and Maya are very much tech tools. Zbrush, which is used to create high poly models, tends to be more focused on the art side. However, it's mainly used to create the normal maps for a lower poly version of the model.
Really, you can't avoid the technical side. The game engine will have feature specs for a model. Specific nodes, model hierarchy, naming conventions, etc. The artist needs to be creative, but they also have to work within the constraints of what the game is capable of loading.
Now, let's get specific. Torque has always supported at least one file format: DTS. That stands for Dynamix Three Space, which was developed way back in the Tribes days. It has survived all the way up to Torque 3D. It is very rigid about tech requirements, but very optimized due to its binary nature. You need a specialized plug-in, such as MaxDTS or MayaDTS.
However, Torque 3D also supports a second format: COLLADA. This format is the closest thing you will find to an industry wide model format. It is human-readable, not binary. Exporters are built right into 3DS Max and Maya. For other tools, such as Blender, you can use OpenCOLLADA exporters. This is a drag and drop format for Torque 3D. Behind the scenes, it gets converted to a DTS for the sake of speed and size (COLLADA is very bloated). If you are creating static models, like props and buildings, COLLADA is the way to go. Most veteran Torque users favor DTS over COLLADA, because that's what they know. We have been pushing the COLLADA standard for a while now, so you can create fully animated 3DS characters, weapons and vehicles using it. It's much simpler and reduces the tech requirements.
However, you will still need to make sure you have all the right nodes in place. The news gets better, though. Again, specifically to Torque 3D, there is a built-in tool called Shape Editor. If you forget a node, it will provide you with hints. You can create a node inside of that editor, then bind it to the hierarchy. Torque will pick up on this automatically and make use of it. Examples in include eye (first person camera rendering), cam (3rd person camera rendering), mountx (weapon mounting), muzzle (projectile placement) and so on.
Good lord that's a long post. I do not subscribe to the TLDR mentality, but I will sum up. Yes, Dr. Flail is correct. Tech knowledge is needed in today's development, but you still need to have an artist's mind if you want to create something new.
Btw, he never posted but I thought I'd reiterate the point. Matt was looking for a job after the IA shutdown. GarageGames picked him up, along with a couple others from the game studio at IA (old GG).
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
Hmm, since this thread has lost a little steam, I will post some pretty screenshots of a few demos I'm working on for GarageGames. Our art team is providing the images, while I write the code for it:
Since they are big, I'll create a separate post for each. This one is called Deathball Desert
Since they are big, I'll create a separate post for each. This one is called Deathball Desert
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
This one is Deathball Shooter:
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
Feel free to ask any questions about the demos, the process, the art, the code, the design or anything not related to the demos. This actually reminds me that I once created a rough design draft of a 2D Legions game for the iPhone/iPad. I though it would be a cool tie-in that could drive people to the full 3D version, maybe even share some data between the two.
That would have been fun =(
That would have been fun =(
Gheist
King of all Goblins
What's your opinion on modern voxel engines like Atomontage, GameDevMich?
Armageddon
Teapot
Since 3d Modeling was brought up and i don't know much about it i'd like to ask your opinion of the NetImmerse File format used in games like Oblivion/Fallout3-NV.
Like i said i have no modeling skills or knowledge but making models in nifscope is a breeze for me unlike trying to make models for my old tribes mods using Hammer, old i know but it been a long time since i've made a mod on an engine that uses the DTS format.
I guess i'll throw a second question in here for shits and giggles, will Torque ever branch out to other formats like nifs?
Like i said i have no modeling skills or knowledge but making models in nifscope is a breeze for me unlike trying to make models for my old tribes mods using Hammer, old i know but it been a long time since i've made a mod on an engine that uses the DTS format.
I guess i'll throw a second question in here for shits and giggles, will Torque ever branch out to other formats like nifs?
I am currently in college or 6th form we uk people call it, anyway am not 100% sure yet but I am very much looking towards something game related at uni, and over this summer I have started learning the basics of C++.
Q1: Out of the "C" languages is C++ the most useful language?
Q2: Do you happen to know any good free compliers I can use to pratice my skills, and maybe C++ tutorials? I already know a couple of tutroials but I was wondeirng if you recommand any.
Q1: Out of the "C" languages is C++ the most useful language?
Q2: Do you happen to know any good free compliers I can use to pratice my skills, and maybe C++ tutorials? I already know a couple of tutroials but I was wondeirng if you recommand any.
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
Now this is what I'm talking about. Questions are getting harder =)
Engine analysis is always a fun topic, considering my current job. I have to walk a fine line here and it's going to be difficult to not let my bias get in the way. In my opinion, Voxel technology is pretty nice. Atom tech is very impressive. When a system boasts the equivalent of billions of polygons in the form of atoms, people pay attention. The scenes you can generate will no doubt be impressive to look at. However, there are two an underlying problems:
1. Game play
2. Tools
A video was circulating two weeks ago talking about an atom-based engine that was converted from medical imaging technology to game engine. The videos were very attractive, but completely static. No physics, no interaction, no apparent tools. Atomontage is actually in a better place with actual physics and interaction taking place. However, I didn't see anything in the way of tools.
These days, you need to make the artists, designers and level builders happy first. Good programmers can work around a problem, if you provide the source code. If they run into a limitation, they should be able to engineer a solution. However, if your tools are lacking the artists and designers can't do anything about it. Let's face it, great graphics sell engines. I showed an artist that video and he was immediately put off. Why? Because he saw a brown terrain with splotches and an oddly textured car that was clunky. He wanted to know how he can bring his high rez model from Max into the system. With no details on tools, he said "no." As a programmer, I can't find any information on the code base, language or anything else.
Where am I going with this? It's new technology. Outside of simulation, it has not been proven yet. Would I like to get my hands on it. Sure, but purely from a research perspective. If I want to make a game, it's just not ready for me yet. As a general developer, I would like to see the Atomontage guys succeed. They are small and super talented team. They got something going on. As a tools developer, they can be competition and I have to keep my eye on them. Right now they are not a threat due to the lack of tools and source availability. Then again, my target market may not be their target market, so the point can be moot.
Engine analysis is always a fun topic, considering my current job. I have to walk a fine line here and it's going to be difficult to not let my bias get in the way. In my opinion, Voxel technology is pretty nice. Atom tech is very impressive. When a system boasts the equivalent of billions of polygons in the form of atoms, people pay attention. The scenes you can generate will no doubt be impressive to look at. However, there are two an underlying problems:
1. Game play
2. Tools
A video was circulating two weeks ago talking about an atom-based engine that was converted from medical imaging technology to game engine. The videos were very attractive, but completely static. No physics, no interaction, no apparent tools. Atomontage is actually in a better place with actual physics and interaction taking place. However, I didn't see anything in the way of tools.
These days, you need to make the artists, designers and level builders happy first. Good programmers can work around a problem, if you provide the source code. If they run into a limitation, they should be able to engineer a solution. However, if your tools are lacking the artists and designers can't do anything about it. Let's face it, great graphics sell engines. I showed an artist that video and he was immediately put off. Why? Because he saw a brown terrain with splotches and an oddly textured car that was clunky. He wanted to know how he can bring his high rez model from Max into the system. With no details on tools, he said "no." As a programmer, I can't find any information on the code base, language or anything else.
Where am I going with this? It's new technology. Outside of simulation, it has not been proven yet. Would I like to get my hands on it. Sure, but purely from a research perspective. If I want to make a game, it's just not ready for me yet. As a general developer, I would like to see the Atomontage guys succeed. They are small and super talented team. They got something going on. As a tools developer, they can be competition and I have to keep my eye on them. Right now they are not a threat due to the lack of tools and source availability. Then again, my target market may not be their target market, so the point can be moot.
GameDevMich
Honored Hero
Ah, my weak point. Armageddon uses "art". It's super effective! =)
OK, on to the reply. As I mentioned in my last post, it is my opinion that art and design rule the industry. There is a noticeable wave of required specialists throughout the history of game development. The first round of pro developers were one-man shows. They did all the programming and art themselves. This was the C64 and Atari era. As technology improved, more artists were needed. Eventually, the balanced shifted where you needed more artists than programmers. It's not uncommon to see the art team outnumber the programmers in a game's credits. These days, smaller budget teams cannot fund this kind of art labor. If they can get their hands on a talented artist, they need to make sure the art pipeline is smooth enough to not block them.
I say all this to lead up to DTS (Dynamix Three Space) format. It is a proprietary format with a very rigid export process. Every time a new version of Maya, Blender or 3DS Max shows up, someone has to compile a new version of the DTS exporters. Additionally, previous versions of Torque did not have much to help artists visualize their content. They had to script their art into the game. Showtool Pro came along and acted as the "middle man", allowing artists to view their DTS models without having to script.
Knowing artists were struggling with our engine and finding alternatives, Torque 3D decided to provide support for another format: COLLADA. This is a lot of repeating from another post, but it's worth bringing up for your comment. If you can get something into 3DS Max, Maya or Blender, you can export it to COLLADA. If you can do that, you can drag and drop it into Torque 3D. There are plenty of tools that "unwrap" models from other engines like Source (Valve) and Fallout 3D (Bethesda). I'm not familiar with nifscope, but I can guarantee you someone has a loader for one of the modeling tools I mentioned. Is it worth it? Well, that depends on your requirements.
As an example from one of my student projects, we wanted to clone Doom 3. At the time, it was the height of rendering tech and the models looked amazing. We found a tool that would bring a .pak into Maya. I wrote an exporter using C++ and Maya's SDK to spit it all out to a vertex format our custom game engine supported. We wrote it all from scratch and used LUA to replicate the weapon system.
Artists could care less about any of the tech that performs this. They want to make their art, but they always have to adhere to a tech spec. Every engine has a requirement for art formats. Some make it easy, like Torque 3D if you use COLLADA. The engine will bring in a COLLADA file and convert it to DTS in the background, making it easier for artists to mod something and show off their work in an advanced rendering system.
All of this boils down to picking the engine and format that works best for your current project. I'm not really at liberty to talk about the future plans for Torque 3D. Giving away our roadmap would put us at a strategic disadvantage if a competitor read this post. I can tell you that we do have discussions about supporting more formats, as we are always trying to improve the content pipeline for the sake of artists.