Jump Pads

Status
Not open for further replies.

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
Chasing, when it comes to skiing, is the hardest position you can choose*. As LO you usually want the quickest way from base to base. That doesn't change, it's always the same. A Routecapper's target (the flag) is always at (or around) the stand. You have your set amount of routes, and you're done (and as a Chaser, you have to know all those routes too - after all you want to prevent them). As Chaser, your target (your flag in the hands of a Capper) is a moving one. Usually you can only guess which route the Capper intends to take home, especially when OD gets used. Additionaly, you start your chase at a much lower speed than that pesky Capper. So yes, you have to know the terrain. Better than anyone else. You have to be able to improvise, have to know as much combinations of viable hills and slopes as possible. Drifting around inconsistently won't bring you anywhere. Good Chasers are, first and foremost, good skiers. Shooting comes later, after you've got that down.

Edit, for clarification: A Capper usually has a well thought out return route, and an initial speed advantage. How can a Chaser expect to catch up to him without knowing the terrain? That's simply impossible. And I'm not really talking about Gorge here. That's a general point. As a Chaser, you have to memorize the terrain to be able to catch up to a Capper who memorized the terrain (of his route) himself.

On the note of chasing:

Most chases are only successful if the enemy overdrives out or is partially slowed by the HOF. If they get out with a grab at 200, odds are knowing the terrain will not allow you to catch the capper. Chasing involves trying to stop the enemy carrier before they grab (body block/shots), or to stop them midfield before they get back to their spawn, at all cost. This is usually done with rocket jumps so that the chaser can get from 0 speed to a speed that they can overtake the capper. With two rocket jumps and maybe one down slope most players can cover a map. Chasing doesn't mean "memorizing" the terrain, it means you're smart enough to find the shortest path to the capper so that you can kill them. The idea that you need to memorize a map to chase some one down is preposterous. To be honest the best chasers I see in game are good because they can improvise intercept paths. You don't memorize down slopes, you find them. I'm disappointed that you have such absurd beliefs about how chasing is done, Gheist.

I dunno, to Seymour it sounds like you guys are describing similar skill sets. And, it seems to Seymour, that having a knowledge of the terrain would be an asset to any position. Maybe not a deal breaker for more experienced players (who know what to look for in terrain), but it's certainly an asset nonetheless.

Also, no need for the anger, lets keep the topic civil!
 

Floks

Member
I did not mean to convey anger. I'm sorry for appearing to be so aggressive. I feel that Gheist is saying that if you don't memorize the terrain, you can't/don't understand how to use the terrain to your advantage, and therefore cannot improvise a chase. He also indirectly attacks Hominggun's ability to ski by saying that chasing is the hardest position you can choose when it comes to skiing. Which means that if Hominggun is having issues chasing on Gorge, it must be because he isn't a good at skiing. He goes on to say that if Hominggun, or anyone for that matter, wishes to be a better chaser, he should memorize the map, learn to ski better, and learn to avoid all the rough spots on a map. This shows a severe lack of understanding of how chasing works. You are forced to take different paths then perfectly prepared and memorized hills/routes.

The fact that Hominggun is a very experienced player makes his comments about the terrain on Gorge legitimate. Other experienced players agree that the map is very rough. At some point you have to look at the map as part of the problem, and stop blaming the players that voice their concerns. I don't care if you change Gorge or not, but at least admit that Hominggun is correct about the terrain.

As usual, people have chosen to comment without thinking about the original post. If you read the post, it mainly focuses on the mechanics of the jump pads, not the terrain of Gorge. Hominggun merely states the opinion that it is more difficult to chase without the pads, which justifies having the jump pads in the first place. I believe the intent of this post was to improve the functionality of the jump pads, not analyze the terrain on Gorge. I think that instead of analyzing the position of chaser, and the map, we should be focusing on the intended issue. Calling the chaser's capabilities into question is just an unwarranted insult to the original poster.
 

RiPTaCk

Member
This shows a severe lack of understanding of how chasing works. You are forced to take different paths then perfectly prepared and memorized hills/routes.
I disagree. I think that a good chaser needs to memorize the terrain. If you are following a capper and you know that a bit on your left, for example, there is a slope that can get you out at a better angle or at higher speed, you would certainly try to use it. Of course being able to improvise is necessary but most of us have played all the current maps (except gorge) more than 100 times and know the terrain. So it is a mixture of improvising your chasing route by using the slopes and hills you know, as Mr. Gheist already stated above.

I think that a chaser can easily intercept most of the standard returning routes just by using 4-5 (2-3 on small maps) of his pre-established routes. This routes aren't perfectly adapted to every capper but they use a general combination of slopes and hills. And for the rest you need to improvise to get back your flag.
 
the jump pads get on my nerves when I pass near one I get pushed, even tho Im a good meter away from it. The terrain is VERY rough with a fair few dead spots. Not only is the terrain rough there are a lot of un helpful hill angles where they send my into the side of hills instead of over or into the base of them, certainly for a map with such huge vertical drops Ive found it hard to find many good cap routes so far.

Im not saying it should be changed but it does make me question how much fun Im having on gorge compared to say frost and core, yeh I like a challenge and like the maps vary so much but do I like gorge? hmmm not so sure about that one.....
 

Disci

Old man
Know capping routes and know a chase route for each capping route. This is how it worked in Tribes 1 and works here too. Improvisation comes along when capper changes the route in the middle, but it's too bad that most working chase route is fast base to base atm.

I don't understand this debate. Seems that there is lot of cock polishing going on and some e-peen strocking competition. If you're a good chaser you know what you need to do. Memorize the map, fix your chase routes so that you can run them blindfolded and know all the most common caproutes. Pretty simple isn't it?

Edit: Ty, RiPTaCk. You should listen this guy since he is one of the best chasers around here.
 

Daphinicus

Private Tester
As Floks rightly pointed out, this thread has gotten way off it's original topic. However, it seems like two things came out of it:
  1. The Jump Pads were tested the other way, and proved to be finicky for folks trying to use the jump pads in, as Mabe put it, "non-trivial ways." That's why they are the way they are, and since testing proved the other option bad, it's likely they will stay the way they are.
  2. The terrain on Gorge is unforgiving. Even though it is a very different type of map, dead spots do exist, and they should be addressed. I agree with this completely, and will encourage DeadGuy to go back and tweak things. That was the idea all along anyway -- release the map, get feedback for a few weeks, make changes to improve it.
Given that a discussion about chasers is really a different topic, the original points have been addressed, and there's a tendency to go off-topic in this thread, it's probably for the best if it were locked.

Thanks for your inputs, everybody!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top