Clearing The Only Limitation To Character Movement Physics.

+1
tl;dr (I'm on holidays, gimme a break) but as far as I understand this will allow me to lay down on the flagstand/ anywhere near which opens up a bunchload of gamepl- modding capabilities. Now all I'll need in game is a cigarette. That's how my d-sniping will look like :D
 
Mahidhar said:
I'm not here to solve the problem of the learning curve, neither is my concept. That is totally up to the developers, how they would approach it. All elements already present, and the ones, about to be added, will make the game more complex, deep and hard. It's all about how it's implemented.
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Hypocrite here? You think up off a new idea, you try and make sure it would and could fit perfectly in the game, which includes balance options.
 
How does the learning curve of the game, come into the area of balance? Surely, you're not talking about balance between newcomers and experienced players, because that would just be silly.
 
i sorta like this idea, but can also see that it would make the game much more complicated, with an increased learning curve.
the lack of keyboard keys that could be used would also be an issue, even if there were only two keys (example Q and E) to just tilt the legionairre to a maximum of 90 degrees one way or another.
i also see this being more of an annoyance in the future rather than a cool feature, as getting back to a position where your feet touch the ground would be a pain as well as there being few places in the game where this would be incredibly useful, to the point where it would be worth making the game that much more complicated.

really nice idea, but i dont see how it would be an improvement due to the increase in complexity of movement.
 
Mahidhar said:
How does the learning curve of the game, come into the area of balance? Surely, you're not talking about balance between newcomers and experienced players, because that would just be silly.
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If newcomers get completely owned by experienced players easily by this new system, more than they do now, what motivation is there for them to keep playing?
 
7 Fissurez said:
i also see this being more of an annoyance in the future rather than a cool feature, as getting back to a position where your feet touch the ground would be a pain.
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Mahidhar said:
But once, you've successfully performed the wall rocket jump, you would want to revert back to the normal, vertical alignment. So, here's the solution. By double tapping the Alt key(it may be a different key, as key bindings are players' choice), your character would be resettled to the basic vertical alignment.
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Fireblasto said:
If newcomers get completely owned by experienced players easily by this new system, more than they do now, what motivation is there for them to keep playing?
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What game actually allows new comers to to play against the experienced ones, on a level field? If what I add brings imbalance(your kind of imbalance) to the game, then same goes for content made by the developers.
 
The system, while fantastic, just seems too complex to me and I'm still left wondering what the benefit of it is. Yes, adding new dynamics is good, but is it really worth the dev team to completely redesign the game for little gain.
 
Mahidhar said:
What game actually allows new comers to to play against the experienced ones, on a level field? If what I add brings imbalance(your kind of imbalance) to the game, then same goes for content made by the developers.
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I still like the idea of a 'trick' system. Maybe not the full rotation capability listed in the OP (which I still don't fully understand), but just something to add extra pizazz and style to the game. Who knows, perhaps we'll hear less global taunts and see more 360' twists or something.

As for the gap between new and experienced players, there will always be a gap, but I like to think that the best way to bridge this gap is by intuitive mechanics/content. There's content that adds depth and is also intuitive, but there's also content that adds depth but may not be entirely intuitive. By that, I mean something like 'protecting base assets' or new weapon properties are probably more intuitive to learn than adding a rotation mechanic to movement (already Legions most 'steep' skill to learn) that allows you to fall on your head. Won't say it would be impossible to make such a system intuitive, but it would be difficult.

Don't get me wrong, Seymour's all for increased agility, but I think I would prefer it in the form of a double tap-style 'Dash, Dodge or double jump' mechanic.
 
SeymourGore said:
Don't get me wrong, Seymour's all for increased agility, but I think I would prefer it in the form of a double tap-style 'Dash, Dodge or double jump' mechanic.
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I'd like something along these lines too, I know when sniping i often jet up to be on level with someone incoming, a double jump or something in the air (with a flip for style) would be a lot more convenient. Dashes left/Right would make duels less one sided since instead of just getting pounded you'd only receive splash damage. If it could be done while flying that could be pretty interesting too. With the mortar and 3 snipers + 3 bodyblockers per team, cappers could use a way to dodge things in the air. If you look at dogfight style games they usually have maneuvers like side-rolls or looping back and such. Some clearly wouldn't be appropriate for legions but something like a double jump and a jump/flip to the side could add another level of depth to the game.
 
I think seymour is dead-on. There are things that are intuitive and those that are not, and I don't think this would be. I know you said just double-tap the skalt button to return to normal vertical. I don't know why people keep missing that...

Anyways, another thing to consider is what happens when you land upside down? When you land on your feet, that's easy enough to code. But landing at any angle? You know what that would mean? rag doll physics. I'm pretty confident the devs don't want to stick that much realism into this game. I mean, if this game were real, you could land on your feet if you stopped your jets while still going forward. You'd do a sort of run/skip thing like the game does. If you landed on your head (which people WILL do), you'll go tumbling across the landscape and then have to pick yourself back up.

My two year old computer is already struggling with 20+ player maps. Sure, I just ordered a new one with about three times the processing power, but still... This will suck up more calculations and more graphics. I'm just giving a warning...
 
Mahidhar:
When posting a suggestion that is mean to improve the game, its your responsibility to defend the improvements your suggestion will make, to every player that might encounter it if it were to go live. You can't just say that it isn't your problem if this mechanism will make the game suck balls for noobs, because even noobs are part of the player base, and yes it does matter if they have fun.

Another thing, how are we supposed to aim while holding down alt? if moving the mouse to the side will make us roll left, and the left key will still apply leftwards momentum, what moves the reticle to the left?
 
Volt Cruelerz said:
Anyways, another thing to consider is what happens when you land upside down? When you land on your feet, that's easy enough to code. But landing at any angle? You know what that would mean? rag doll physics. I'm pretty confident the devs don't want to stick that much realism into this game. I mean, if this game were real, you could land on your feet if you stopped your jets while still going forward. You'd do a sort of run/skip thing like the game does. If you landed on your head (which people WILL do), you'll go tumbling across the landscape and then have to pick yourself back up.
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Mahidhar said:
1. Touching any surface with anything, other than your feet will result in slight but constant damage. Damage is directly proportional to the speed of the character. Similar to fall damage vs speed.
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Let me describe how this is going to be. If the character is standing still, and is made to turn upside down, he will be on his head, taking constant damage. Meaning, if he stays like that, he'll die. As for a moving character, it's already in my quote. The intensity of this constant damage will depend on the traveling speed of the character.

Although, I'd very much love to see some rag doll physics in the game, it would be too much to do. The game might require total overhaul, which would be a waste of time, for sure.

As for how the current physics will cope with the concept, it's rather simple. As one person posted here, Sky-Axis allows you to "lay down" on the surface. But in truth, the character will look like he's levitating.
10i85xe.png

This is how, it will look, during stand still. This just looks like he's floating, but he's actually touching the ground. Character will take continual damage, until he reverts to vertical alignment position. So, if the character is moving, and did not align himself properly(meaning, the player did not double tap the Sky-Axis), his speed will reduce, and he would move just as he does while running. Because of this, there will not be any rag doll physics needed.

Lin said:
Mahidhar:
When posting a suggestion that is mean to improve the game, its your responsibility to defend the improvements your suggestion will make, to every player that might encounter it if it were to go live. You can't just say that it isn't your problem if this mechanism will make the game suck balls for noobs, because even noobs are part of the player base, and yes it does matter if they have fun.
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I know it is my responsibility, and this is why I'm replying to all the posts, here. Let me give you an example. There are some people who play in 250+ ping, in the servers, and you sometimes see them posting about how unfair it is for them, to lose a certain weapon or game element, as it's really hard to play in that ping, and that weapon is the only thing, helping them make any difference. Now, while this is true, we just cannot take into account, ping issues while creating a game. All games out there, including Legions are meant to be played in less than 50 ping.

This would also be the position of newcomers. If you don't want them to "get owned" all the time, and want them to have a chance against the experienced, you have to give them a bigger stick, which is not going to happen in Legions. The best approach would be, by creating some kind of system, like special servers, single player simulations, target practice areas etc. Restricting content for the game, is not the way to go.

Lin said:
Another thing, how are we supposed to aim while holding down alt? if moving the mouse to the side will make us roll left, and the left key will still apply leftwards momentum, what moves the reticle to the left?
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Moving the mouse sideways, in Sky-Axis, will not let you roll sideways, you will turn sideways(along with your reticule). But when you hold down A/D, you will bank sideways. When you hold down the Sky-Axis key, your reticule will be fixed to your body, in upward direction(like how it is in Overdrive). You will still be able to aim and more, you'll be able to aim in any direction. But while doing this, your body will just be moving with your reticule, therefore you have to re-align yourself back to the normal position, once you are done.
 
I still think this will make the learning curve too steep, but that seems to be a matter of opinion now...

As for the physics, I meant, what happens if someone turns on their jets and starts skiing but flips upside down when a few meters off the ground when about to go down a hill and promptly turns their jets off? Are you saying they'll just float there like your picture? They turned their jets off. They need to fall. It makes no sense to have your jets off and be floating. My point isn't whether or not they will take damage (though you shouldn't take damage by just laying on your back or stomach, sliding, yes, but not laying). My point is what does the game do when someone does not have their feet downward?

And what do you mean in your picture by he's actually touching the ground?
 
OK, first of all, I have to tell you, that this is a bit hard to explain. Now, Let us say that the Character is enveloped in a circle like this
2yz9y6h.png


I didn't do it perfectly, but the head(or armor, whatever is the topmost) and the feet of the Character, will be touching the circle. You also see a yellow line below, which denotes the ground level. The Character in this picture is actually in Overdrive, so his body is tilted forward, with his feet floating just above the ground. So, what you need to know here, is that no matter how hard you try, you can never touch the ground with your feet(in that Overdrive position, you see in the picture), in Overdrive. This is because the circle acts as the Character's "space". Space which only let's the Character and it's parts, move around in.

Now, the same principle applies to the Character, when using Sky-Axis. You will not see the chest of the Character, touch the ground, because of this invisible sphere. That's why I said, even though your character is ground, with his feet parallel to it, he will not look like he's on the ground, but will look like he's floating. Hope that cleared up, some of the confusion.
 
but doesn't that make it seem really wrong to you? "I know the laws of physics say I should fall, but I'm magic and can float on my chest :D " is what I see happening. It won't make sense to look at. When in overdrive or using your jets, it makes sense. You are actively using some sort of energy requiring tech to keep yourself afloat. It's obvious. In this case, you are just floating there...
 
Mahidhar said:
Moving the mouse sideways, in Sky-Axis, will not let you roll sideways, you will turn sideways(along with your reticule). But when you hold down A/D, you will bank sideways. When you hold down the Sky-Axis key, your reticule will be fixed to your body, in upward direction(like how it is in Overdrive). You will still be able to aim and more, you'll be able to aim in any direction. But while doing this, your body will just be moving with your reticule, therefore you have to re-align yourself back to the normal position, once you are done.
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so then how do you apply sideways momentum? Does the process of banking sideways also apply a sideways push force, as pressing a/d normally do?
 
to solve the keys issue, and although this might defeat the purpose, but you could always be fixed looking forward, but ur body tilts where you move your mouse. You could still move in all directions while shooting, but it would be harder to control movement direction. so if you move your mouse forward, you face upwards. then to continue on your previous forward path, you would have to do a Shift-Right click, which to your character would normally be down, but in this sense, forward with reference to the way it is now. the only problem would be people that play on low mouse sensitivities, they would run out of space to move their mouse. This differs currently because ur character just aims and looks in the vertical directions, but rotating in the horizontal directions. this would make him rotate in both directions, removing the final constraint.
 
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