Backward camera.
- Thread starter WildFire
- Start date
Propkid
Member
^Too many people are missing the point...
If you have a backward camera HUD element:
If you have a backward camera HUD element:
- you can ski backwards without continuously turning around and ending up spinning 2000 degrees during one cap-route.
- you can see your chase much more easily, allowing you to make the best decision regarding a rocket jump/ flag pass etc.
- if you don't like spinning around you lose less speed with this feat
- you can ski backwards and continuously fire at your chase without turning around to see if you aren't about to fall on a hill, bumping into a tower or, like a complete *dance*tard, skiing away from your base. Cappers will be able to fight back during with this feat and a bit of skill.
Disci
Old man
Eh I did get it. I just used this to express that this is rather dumb idea and they should add radarhud instead. If you suck at skiing while going backwards, then why they should add something just because you're too lazy to learn to do it without it?
Imo I can't chain as well as others, can I haz aim assist?
Imo I can't chain as well as others, can I haz aim assist?
Piggeh
Puzzlemaster
This is a superior idea, as it limits your FOV to what makes actual sense (if this was a driving game, I could see the point, but it seems rather difficult to turn your head in those mechanized suits). With a radarhud, you could see enemies approaching you, but not their exact location (in space).
At first I considered this idea as plausible, but after realizing how little sense it makes, I say no. The only way it could be cool would be for cinematography's sake, imo.
NightHawk043
Member
ah skiing backwards isn't that hard. For mere glances it's even easier. Advice: it's easier to do when you're in MA. Figure out your jetting and line yourself up where you want to go, jets off, quick mouse turn, switch to s, check for players, mouse back, switch to w, land on downslope.
The hard part is running entire routes backwards. That requires skill and good memory.
Ah, fun times. I used to know my nivo and frostbyte basic routes so well i could do the return parts of my routes entirely backwards, shooting at the chasers the whole time. (this is technically true, but just because i Could do it without looking, doesn't mean i was stupid enough not to watch where i'm going... enemies aren't always just coming at you from the direction of the enemy base.
If you really suck at backwards glances, just practice them for an hour or two... and when i say practice, do them when you don't even need to, so long as it doesn't jeopardise your flightpath. You want to get it to the point where you don't have to think about it to get it right. Same as for driving a car.
The hard part is running entire routes backwards. That requires skill and good memory.
Ah, fun times. I used to know my nivo and frostbyte basic routes so well i could do the return parts of my routes entirely backwards, shooting at the chasers the whole time. (this is technically true, but just because i Could do it without looking, doesn't mean i was stupid enough not to watch where i'm going... enemies aren't always just coming at you from the direction of the enemy base.
If you really suck at backwards glances, just practice them for an hour or two... and when i say practice, do them when you don't even need to, so long as it doesn't jeopardise your flightpath. You want to get it to the point where you don't have to think about it to get it right. Same as for driving a car.
moronval
Private Tester
Then you're doing it horribly horribly wrong. Stop it. Stop it now.
Propkid
Member
WildFire
Warrior of Linux
Ucantry2run
Private Tester
If you need to continuously turn around while you're capping, you're not going fast enough. And firing at your opponent while switching between the two is stupid.
l2cap
l2cap
WildFire
Warrior of Linux
Mod please lock thread, as the pros and cons have been discussed and I'm sick of people moaning about how it would suck, while not saying why.
Pros -
Decreased learning curve
Advantage of capper being able to fight back
Cons -
Could be overpowered
Could not be used at all.
Looks more like a mod idea rather than an actual core gameplay idea.
Pros -
Decreased learning curve
Advantage of capper being able to fight back
Cons -
Could be overpowered
Could not be used at all.
Looks more like a mod idea rather than an actual core gameplay idea.
Disci
Old man
I request that you read what others have wrote and not totaly ignore the points they have made. As Fireblasto already admited it would probably end up being a OP feature. I'm 99.99999999999% sure about that.
I see this discussion pretty much the same as chasing with the new LR in old IA boards. People talking out of their asses thinking it's impossible to do. Everyone knows by know how it is and, again, LR needs to be nerfed!
If you blame others ignoring your posts then you should 100% sure you don't do it too. Would love to see your replys to those posts and explain why they are not related to the topic in hand.
Point you complitely ignored.
My style is rougher but means the same thing.
Propkid
Member
Fine. I hate answering every single point brought up when a moment of extra thought could render the point invalid, but fine here you go:
) we could eliminate the whole HUD and learn to remember our ammo, hp, reticule position etc. The point of a HUD in FPS games is to make things simpler, thats why in some shooters like CoD the Hardcore mode doesn't have any HUD at all. Decreased learning curve, or to better word it making the game easier, is basically the role of all HUD in L:O. Think how long would it take for a newblood to figure out overdrive by himself without the sound indication (could count as interface) and VELOCITY WARNING.
Now off topic: do you like it when people consider every single tiny point you mention, especially when later you regret making it? Sometimes I do ignore a post, I admit it, but that's just because I want to give people time to realize their mistakes/ because I don't feel like 'flaming' someone for a silly mistake just as I don't always want to be flamed for my mistakes when I make them.
Kinda related to why don't the devs reply to all of the threads, even though they read them all.
Can be answered with:
Just like we have the IFF that draws red rectangles around our enemies and their HP, we could get the backwards cam. If we followed the above logic (or what Disci thinks the above logic is, because to me NightHawk simply had a short off-topic moment of nostalgia and show-off
) we could eliminate the whole HUD and learn to remember our ammo, hp, reticule position etc. The point of a HUD in FPS games is to make things simpler, thats why in some shooters like CoD the Hardcore mode doesn't have any HUD at all. Decreased learning curve, or to better word it making the game easier, is basically the role of all HUD in L:O. Think how long would it take for a newblood to figure out overdrive by himself without the sound indication (could count as interface) and VELOCITY WARNING.^self-contradicting. Also, if a feature is granted to all classes and has nothing to be compared to (eg. pineapples being compared to normal weapons/frag jumps to rocket jumps). Yes, it could not be used at all, but I don't see how can it be overpowered (OP is a relative term).
ATM there's quite a bit of small tactics in the game that are about the enemy not seeing you. Think of all the LO and several duel situations. Radarhud just gives the player way too much and eliminates some minor but still fun gameplay mechanics
Are you implying we should all learn to ski backwards? OFC we can try, but just as I said above we can just as well try and learn to remember where our reticule is, how much ammo and hp do we have and which player has the flag (if the IFF was removed).
Look skiing backwards does require skill I admit. The thing is that it's simply impossible on the long-run if you haven't memorized your route. But what about not being on the route? Memorizing all of the map to ski backwards on it is just a little bit too much.
Now off topic: do you like it when people consider every single tiny point you mention, especially when later you regret making it? Sometimes I do ignore a post, I admit it, but that's just because I want to give people time to realize their mistakes/ because I don't feel like 'flaming' someone for a silly mistake just as I don't always want to be flamed for my mistakes when I make them.
Kinda related to why don't the devs reply to all of the threads, even though they read them all.
Disci
Old man
Just like we have the IFF that draws red rectangles around our enemies and their HP, we could get the backwards cam. If we followed the above logic (or what Disci thinks the above logic is, because to me NightHawk simply had a short off-topic moment of nostalgia and show-off
Don't exaggerate. Some games do have useless stuff just like velocity warning you mentioned. They have no idea what OD is if no one is telling them about it. If they are truly new to this game. There are no instructions atm off forums ofcos. Once they know how to use it the whole warning becomes pretty much useless. You still keep missing the whole point, which is that the whole damn thing would be abused to the max when chasing is still being pretty hard part of the game even when you have frag jumps and whatever to ease the job. If you see Nighthawks comment as a nostalgia show-off, then what makes it so nostalgic when you're still able to pull off that kind of stuff today? What makes that statement count less now?
My opinion on about decreasing learning curve is known. Let me name few people who had never played any fps+z games before Legions, Dimitryy, RiPTaCK and many others. I think Nvidia and Elder are in this group too. Top players who have beaten the learning curve just because they wanted to. They wanted to learn and now they rape anything that moves doing insane stunts while they are on it. Awesome stuff.
I think it would be OP. This is why I suggested radarhud which would give you some information but you would still have to pull off the insanely hard legendary ski backwards to take care of the people chasing you.
Not sure if you truly understand how radarhud works. It would show you the same IFF you would normaly see. Since you can't tell what is their altitude it would be more balanced. Mainly what I would love to use it is for capping and LO timing. Seeing if someone from your team is following you etc. Ofcos this could be considered being useless with the logic I've been using, but the tactical choices that can be made based on the information in the radar makes it differ from the suggestion in OP.
No I don't. You can do it tho. It's not neccesery and I rarely have to do that when I'm capping. I always expect they are after my lucky charms and try to avoid being hit by snipers/chaingunners and ground pounders. Note: some people play without reticle. It's not a new thing and some are really good at it too.
^^see? I used your method that you can stop for a moment and think what you did there.
Is this what you mean?
Very effective way to point out how dumb people are. Yet another opinion of yours without much contribution to conversation in hand.
NightHawk043
Member
Hate to point this out to you, but if you were referring to my bit which you classed as off topic nostalgia, it's only off topic if you skim read it.
I just have a very round about way of saying that it's not impossible. It's like learning to MA at high ping, before you learn it at low ping. (note, this is not intended to "show off". I'm using me as an example but I'm definitely not the only one who has experienced this) When I first started playing on the American servers (talking back in Tribes days), I couldn't even MA when i was at low ping. I worked at it, and got moderately good at it over a long period of time (finished each game with a few ma's). I then went to an Australian server. Now sure, it took me a few games to adjust to the low ping, but once I did, I was finishing most games with 20+ mas, because In Comparison, it was rediculously easy.
I've moved slightly off topic now, but all I was saying is that, you just have to try. Who cares if you have to move your mouse a bit, does your hand Really get that sore?
Firstly, I wasn't suggesting it would be practical to ski an entire route backwards, just possible. Secondly, in reality what i'm more likely to do if i'm trying to ski backwards, is occasionally check for a reference fowards, then switch back, remembering what I'm going to face in the next 3 or 4 seconds. (Just like if you're playing music you read the bars ahead of where you're playing)
Finally, I forgot to say something I meant to say earlier.
I agree with Disci.
We Need a RadarHUD.
far more important than a mirror.
ripperthedipper
Member
I don't really see this included in the game. Maybe in a moded server in the future...
Propkid
Member
Let's get back on topic, I'm losing the flow of this convo
As far as I understand you don't want the 'mirror' because you think that:
- Decreasing the learning curve isn't so necessary
- It would be OP.
- RadarHUD is just a way better idea.
+ in the post you had some off-topic stuff on OD and reticule specifically (which I only used as an example) and something regarding posting style. But let's be back on topic.
Summing up my points pro mirrorHUD:
- Enables long-run backward skiing, giving the chaser the ability to fight back and ski simultaneously. Gives much more potential to a capper, especially on a long side return-route (I'm thinking of Zenith here).
- Increases general battlefield awareness.
- Decreases the amount of spins you need to do to see if someone is chasing you which makes some people lose less speed.
Now: [POST]
Now I kinda like the RadarHUD, though I think that the way IFF is working right now is it shows only the enemies you see/ the ones that are REALLY close. Chase distances can get quite long.
Regarding your opinion on the learning curve, yes, some people learn. Add me to that list of yours, but not everyone is so *dancing* amazing that they can manage by themselves. You might think 'too bad', but the deal here is about the game gaining up on popularity while maintaining its... hmm, 'level'? The game is good enough for us; the point of changing/developing is to make it good enough for more people.
Once again, regarding the OverPowered. Either you didn't understand what did I mean with the whole " if a feature is granted to all classes and has nothing to be compared to " and relative talk, or you meant that it'll empower the cappers too much when compared to chasers (I tried to guess it myself, couldn't figure out from your post).
SO, in order for a game feature to be OP it needs to be too strong when compared to something else that plays the same or a similar role. Eg. the old laser rifle being OP when compared to the new one, or your RadarHUD being OP when compared to the MirrorHUD (lets call it like that). Currently the MirrorHUD can't be compared to anything else, hence it can't be OP. I really don't see how do you think it will be OP since everyone will have it...
About the chase/capper thing I guessed: I doubt that on a short route the mirror would make much of a difference, but ATM the capper could use some extra defence on a side route. At the moment front return routes >>>> side return routes on maps such as Zenith. MirrorHUD would change that. RadarHUD wouldn't change it as much due to distance limit and it'd also give the player the information 'on a plate', meaning there's no effort/skill needed to see the enemy. Everything is clear on a radar, while looking at a mirror would require some more 'skill', especially that the IFF wouldn't be displayer for players shown on it (I think)
[/POST]
Disci
Old man
I think we can strongly assume what would be OP and what not.
Think about this: Ok so this mirrorhud would get implemented. Already good players start using it and picking it up quite briefly giving chasers hard time to take the killing shot and they would have to strafe and avoid getting ground pounded. Now think about how much skill it would require to ski backwards looking at the hud to navigate(maintaining speed as you guys pointed out earlier) and shooting at the same time.
Now bring in the idea of decreasing the skill gap. Think how a new player trying to chase someone who has more experience(at the moment we have many players with years of experience) would fare doing so? My guess is that he would get his ass handed to himself before mid-map. Now put that new guy in the cappers shoes. How do you think he would be able to maintain his speed while trying to aim at the same time? He will probably never use this feature like stated above and if he does he would just *dance* up everything thinking this is a damn hard game. One more thing that is hard to master which they would have to learn to use because everyone else are using it perpetually.
I can see this to be OP at certain level and make the skill gap even higher. What do you think?
Think about this: Ok so this mirrorhud would get implemented. Already good players start using it and picking it up quite briefly giving chasers hard time to take the killing shot and they would have to strafe and avoid getting ground pounded. Now think about how much skill it would require to ski backwards looking at the hud to navigate(maintaining speed as you guys pointed out earlier) and shooting at the same time.
Now bring in the idea of decreasing the skill gap. Think how a new player trying to chase someone who has more experience(at the moment we have many players with years of experience) would fare doing so? My guess is that he would get his ass handed to himself before mid-map. Now put that new guy in the cappers shoes. How do you think he would be able to maintain his speed while trying to aim at the same time? He will probably never use this feature like stated above and if he does he would just *dance* up everything thinking this is a damn hard game. One more thing that is hard to master which they would have to learn to use because everyone else are using it perpetually.
I can see this to be OP at certain level and make the skill gap even higher. What do you think?
