Epiclight858
Member
Yeah, some HPS (Health Per Second instead of Damage Per Second [haha]) would be fantastic. IMO, instant healing would be too OP and crazy-like.
Player health recharge
- Thread starter Whitewhale
- Start date
mausgang
Puzzlemaster
By-Tor, there are already choices with the matter. They aren't as developed as "to get health or not get health at all" but that's a silly question. Most of the players except for the chasers want to be able to regenerate health without needing an engineer class-type person around. The idea of teamwork solving issues like that works well in PUGs and in competition, but will not stand up in PUBs. Teamwork largely doesn't happen in PUBs and then nobody wants to be an engineer, and nobody on a team gets health regen. An automatic version, which could be re-worked, I think works better for a game like this. Health packs, while a decent idea, will make players have to look for them and they may not be there. Dead-drop health packs (health packs drop from dead people, how ironic) will easily fall prey to opportunistic people even with other constraints, and while it would be cool if somebody could do a mid-air suicide in front of a carrier in order to get a heal on a carrier, if they're in that close proximity and travelling faster, it makes more sense for a pass back to be picked up by the potentially healthier and definitely faster player. With health packs, not only are the players searching for them, but they may be gone already. Somebody else may have taken it, so then the player has to wait for the health pack to respawn, or get killed in the process. All that time spent looking and possibly waiting could be spent getting the health back. The current system, wait on the ground and your health comes back eventually, is a good system in its most basic form. The details could be rearranged, having an effective enemy base radius where health won't regenerate inside that area, but the rest of the map supports health regeneration. It forces the choice of being active but weak, or becoming more of a sitting duck and regaining health. Gaining one thing for sacrificing another is balance. There is also talk of having an incremental regen, where once you drop below 75%, then your health only regens up to 75% and the same for 50 and 25%. The argument is that this is more gentle on noobs and fall damage. I ask, in what way is this more gentle on the fall damage issue for beginning legionnaires? If anything, by the time the noobs get to the enemy base in CTF or encounter an enemy in DM or TDM, they will find themselves at 25% health and the first rocket to come their way is death. Any health regen system should allow for total regen, not just partial regen once you dip below a certain point. Once the health dips below 25%, that's when players need to have the full regeneration, not just regeneration to 25%.
Please split your wall of text into paragraphs for an easier read.
Disci
Old man
That player is a bigger problem for his own team...
<('.'<)_kirby_(>'.')>
Member
I like the healing system the way it is.
People holding the flag can't heal so they are forced to pass it off. This gives offense a chance to return the flag during the pass off and it involves a team to pull it off. If the person holding the flag can heal then there will be less passing involved.
I like that offense can heal at enemy base because it leaves them open to be killed. You can overwhelm a good player with numbers if you can stay on them long enough making every bullet count. This will force the defense to make priorities on what to do. It was also very fun running around the base while the entire team tried to kill me =P. It gave me a rush because I had to choose when to leave myself vulnerable and when to fight. It also gave me a rush when I had to hunt someone down who was good at it like mable.
I hated when offense would go out into the field to heal because they know they would die if they stood near the base. I had to choose between leaving my base and chasing them like little jack rabbits or just waiting for them to bum rush me when cappers came in. I like the idea of keeping the healing regeneration to an area around the bases. This might help with the rabbits dropping the flag to heal in field, the O snipers, and keep the offense near the base so they can't just go to field for safety when healing.
I dont like the idea of using health packs. The cappers would use it to survive and the good ones are hard enough has it is. The offense would keep even more pressure on the defense because they wouldn't stop to rest. If you made it so health packs would come back with ammo station..... then good bye defense.
People holding the flag can't heal so they are forced to pass it off. This gives offense a chance to return the flag during the pass off and it involves a team to pull it off. If the person holding the flag can heal then there will be less passing involved.
I like that offense can heal at enemy base because it leaves them open to be killed. You can overwhelm a good player with numbers if you can stay on them long enough making every bullet count. This will force the defense to make priorities on what to do. It was also very fun running around the base while the entire team tried to kill me =P. It gave me a rush because I had to choose when to leave myself vulnerable and when to fight. It also gave me a rush when I had to hunt someone down who was good at it like mable.
I hated when offense would go out into the field to heal because they know they would die if they stood near the base. I had to choose between leaving my base and chasing them like little jack rabbits or just waiting for them to bum rush me when cappers came in. I like the idea of keeping the healing regeneration to an area around the bases. This might help with the rabbits dropping the flag to heal in field, the O snipers, and keep the offense near the base so they can't just go to field for safety when healing.
I dont like the idea of using health packs. The cappers would use it to survive and the good ones are hard enough has it is. The offense would keep even more pressure on the defense because they wouldn't stop to rest. If you made it so health packs would come back with ammo station..... then good bye defense.
Gheist
King of all Goblins
[...] Leejunz will change, and there will be tests. Way too many people got too used to a game that shouldn't even have been released in the state it was in. Keep an open mind, look forward to improving the game that we are playing, and stop demonizing theoretical changes that you have not experienced in game yet. So far, there is nothing substantial to talk about. Save your breath for when it matters.
UtadaHikaru
Member
would also make mapubre impossible to kill.
discord
Private Tester
rabbits taste like chicken. also, if im remembering right hes just a pub rabbit. chase him down, the end.
Serket
Member
Just a few things that may work. If the way devs will go is health packs you should be able to get them at the ammo recharge stations, being as they're treated as equipment, even at the stations in the enemy base. They should heal a certain amount of health over a perod of time instead of being instantaneous, and the regen rate should be faster if you're not using energy, as in heal faster if you're walkning instead of skiing. Flag carriers should not be able to use the packs just like in the current form, they would need to drop the flag to be able to heal up. I don't really know about the cores dropping from killed players, maybe they could be like in borderlands, where you can only use 'em right away but can't pick them up, whereas the health packs can be carried.
This is the way I'd imagine the system to be balanced but maybe people will think is almost the same current system just with health packs instead of the current health regen but this is just my way of thinking and suggesting a little bit of stuff that may be interesting to discuss.
This is the way I'd imagine the system to be balanced but maybe people will think is almost the same current system just with health packs instead of the current health regen but this is just my way of thinking and suggesting a little bit of stuff that may be interesting to discuss.
mausgang
Puzzlemaster
Serket, that's a good idea, and if health packs were to be implemented, I'd like it if your method was used in the game. The ammo reload stations are all over the map, so convenience wouldn't be much of an issue. I still am wary of the health cores dropping from dead bodies, as I think it would still be too open to opportunists, and opportunists taking people's health in PUBs leads to rage, and rage isn't a good thing. One more question for you, Serket. If, instead, the health packs were an instantaneous heal, would they heal, eventually, all lost health, or only a certain amount, or a certain percentage of the total? If it was a full heal, I could see that being divisive as well, with some people thinking the game would be broken and some people would be thinking its just right. Also, if it was a set amount of healing, that would mean that sentinels, in a base with easy access to ammo stations, would need more health packs in order to heal than a raider or an outrider in the middle of the map, since Sentinels have way more health, but often don't move so far. A total percentage heal, like healing 25%, would mean equality among the armor classes. Right now, I'm guessing that I would prefer either of the last two for a solution. I really would appreciate the first option, but I know that it would be more prone to complaints.
MJ1284
Member
I'd still like that base defenders have advantage in health regen opposed to enemy offense, that way Light O is actually forced to do more ruthless and co-ordinated attacks in order to bring down flag carrier & Base D.
I think it kinda ruins the game when one Light O can prance around the enemy base, regain all health (and refill ammo in friggin ENEMY BASE!) and keep on harrassing the few who actually bother to play defense (in Public games atleast), why not encourage people to work as a team in offensive gameplay?
I think it kinda ruins the game when one Light O can prance around the enemy base, regain all health (and refill ammo in friggin ENEMY BASE!) and keep on harrassing the few who actually bother to play defense (in Public games atleast), why not encourage people to work as a team in offensive gameplay?
Deskari
Member
I didn't read through the whole thread, but it seems like the two main choices are having a modified regen or health kits. From there you have your little arguments, but nobody is really presenting anything new. How about a hybridized version of the two?
Perhaps a healthkit that is limited based on the units of energy it contains. So let's it holds some arbitrary maximum number like 50 units of energy. Each unit of energy regens a unit of health. So after you use the pack, you have zero units of healthpack energy. However, instead of running around searching for health packs. The healthkit regens it's own energy while you're standing around like the current regen system. There would definitely have to be some limits and tweaks, but you all can figure that out.
Some factors to consider:
-The process of refilling the healthpack could perhaps take away jetpack energy?
-Minimum limit to using the healthpack?
-What rate of healthpack regen that would be acceptable?
-What rate of health regen would be acceptable?
-Should it operate as an offhand item?
-Will it be intuitive to use?
I'm sure you all will figure out some holes in my suggestion, but it's mostly just to lay the option out there and perhaps get some people thinking.
Perhaps a healthkit that is limited based on the units of energy it contains. So let's it holds some arbitrary maximum number like 50 units of energy. Each unit of energy regens a unit of health. So after you use the pack, you have zero units of healthpack energy. However, instead of running around searching for health packs. The healthkit regens it's own energy while you're standing around like the current regen system. There would definitely have to be some limits and tweaks, but you all can figure that out.
Some factors to consider:
-The process of refilling the healthpack could perhaps take away jetpack energy?
-Minimum limit to using the healthpack?
-What rate of healthpack regen that would be acceptable?
-What rate of health regen would be acceptable?
-Should it operate as an offhand item?
-Will it be intuitive to use?
I'm sure you all will figure out some holes in my suggestion, but it's mostly just to lay the option out there and perhaps get some people thinking.
MJ1284
Member
Let me rephrase: Base defenders were a rare sight in Public games, atleast in London servers, while it wasn't completely LO's fault I'd bet it had it's share in dwindling Base D numbers next to nothing (especially if LO was experienced duelist). Tweaking the health & ammo refill in favour of Base D could encourage casual players to go on defense instead of some mindless midfield dueling (in CTF, that is). LO plays it's own vital role, true, but if it only takes one skilled LO to incapacitate other team's defense (those few casual players who actually try to play base D) then defenders should have some sort of "homefield advantage" (which wouldn't tip the scales too much in base D's favour).
Clarified much?
Feel free to bombard my post with your ugly critical comments
Lies! Slander! I would NEVER do such a thing to a fellow legionnaire *insert innocent casual whisling here*
Serket
Member
About the cores that drop from fallen enemies; that's why I said I wasn't soo sure about them, exactly because of opportunist players and in-game rage, but maybe the devs can come up with a solution for it. And about the amount of health regained from health packs I'd think it'd be best if it was a percentage, that way it'd be equal for the players, but of course it would take longer for a guardian to regain that same let's say 35% as opposed to an outrider regainig that same amount, just because they have a different number of overall HP.
Yes I understand your concerns here, I only thought it would be nice if it was kept so you could refiill your ammo even at enemy dispensers, because I used to do it: go to enemy base, defeat the guys that saw me, hide for a bit and regen health, refill my ammo and cover the capper on his way home or take the flag myself. It just made me feel a bit more sure about trying to cap with all my ammo at full. But what I think is that even with the addition of health packs the harrasing at the other base would still continue, even if at a smaller scale but it would still go on, but that's just how I think things are.
As for promoting defensive play, maybe the deployables mentioned in other threads could offer a fun addition or make some base assets that make playing defense a bit more dynamic, because at least in my case I think playing defense is kinda boring, firstly because I just can't snipe for *chocolate cookies*, but when I was in a game and saw there was noone staying at base for defense I took that role.
Quite nice and new approach here, I really like the idea. And yes, I'm sure that the devs and the community can come up with suggestions to make yours a complete one.
BTW, nice seeing you around here Deskari.
And sorry about the wall of text everyone...
Whitewhale
Member
exactly as a HoF specialist to be honest i often rage quit and found legions lame cause of the LO
its really annoying and totally unbalanced
i should have to go careening through the base looking for the healthing up LO? in my own base?
seriously thats just broken gameplay, anyone defending it i just cant understand..and saying "go kill him" is a joke then the flag is wide open
picture this...in comes LO...i almost kill him then he bails, i block capper...then back comes LO from side of base (which noone is watching) on FULL health (despite the fact i almost killed him), while i have little health from fighting/ODing cappers...LO kills me as HoF and scampers around base, waits for me to get back into position and rinse and repeat
awesome balance, that really encourages people to play d
mausgang
Puzzlemaster
Exactly, Deskari. Pub play is always going to be imbalanced. There is a lack of teamwork and an overload of LO messing with the defense. As HoF, I can understand why in this particular situation you would complain about the health regen system, whitewhale. However, you are not taking into account that there could be an LD person there. LD's job is to finish off and mop up the base. I've done LD and the people who are stupid enough to take a breather in base to health regen are the easy people to kill. In competition, there will be LD, and competition with teamwork is where the game really comes full out. CTF in any game requires teamwork, and PUBs just don't offer that. Also, the sarcastic comment at the end isn't accurate in its sarcasm. Most people, when they first start playing, just ski around don't try anything too fancy. Then, they will probably try offense, and in the early stages of play, the current health regen system actually does give them more incentive to play. Then, as they play, they will become frustrated with the flag being gone and a lack of people to help cover the carrier. Then, if they are the types of people who take such matters in their own hands, they will play as either LD or HoF. Beginners almost never start out on defense, so while you play defense, and you naturally see improvements that would benefit the defense, if the defense becomes too powerful, then the beginners will be shunted away from the game as the offensive positions are too hard. Beginners are quitters, and as such, in order to grow the community, there does need to be a balance, but I think your complaints are too specific and narrow without considering the fuller possibilities.
Now, if you would care to read your own thread all the way through, there have been a few good suggestions, like Serket's latest idea where the ammo recharge stations give health back instead. If you could give your thoughts on such possible new regen systems rather than continue to complain about the current system, I think that would aid in the further development of a better system that you would enjoy more than the current methods.
Now, if you would care to read your own thread all the way through, there have been a few good suggestions, like Serket's latest idea where the ammo recharge stations give health back instead. If you could give your thoughts on such possible new regen systems rather than continue to complain about the current system, I think that would aid in the further development of a better system that you would enjoy more than the current methods.
Gheist
King of all Goblins
And if you all could just stop talking now, and wait to test out the announced stuff in game before you get your panties in a twist about it, I'm sure you will be more useful than you're at the moment.
[...] Leejunz will change, and there will be tests. Way too many people got too used to a game that shouldn't even have been released in the state it was in. Keep an open mind, look forward to improving the game that we are playing, and stop demonizing theoretical changes that you have not experienced in game yet. So far, there is nothing substantial to talk about. Save your breath for when it matters.
Fissurez
Puzzlemaster
could still do with a little less "wall" and a bit more "paragraphs"
however, the ammo stations also giving a recharge to health (with a lot more stations in a map) does seem like a nice idea.