WildFire
Warrior of Linux
I've been pushing for the changes on hand grenade ammo counts for months, good luck getting Jord to open his mind.
Offensive Coordination and Capping
- Thread starter AFireInAsa
- Start date
I've been pushing for the changes on hand grenade ammo counts for months, good luck getting Jord to open his mind.
I didn't even know this was a problem. But assuming it is, if you nerf boost nades and people start using frags, how is that any better? They're just as spammable and do more damage.
Jordahan
World Leader of The 21st Century
That's cause it isn't.
Just cause something irritates you doesn't mean it's broken. Getting chained by someone with like 15 ping bothers me, doesn't mean I think we should nerf chain to do like 2dmg.
WildFire
Warrior of Linux
Of course not, but if something about the game does irritate you and other people, will the game be as fun for them? This is the issue that's currently been struggling with legions. I disagree with many of the design decisions because its made the game not enjoyable. In addition I still think legions is a much as a shell as it was back in the end of the IA days, but now with some boring cores mechanically and weapons that aren't properly balanced with one another, movement that's become stupidly easy to get making cap routes simple. I fact I think legions is much worse of a game now because its such a mess compared back to when it was more LT-like. I dunno, Legions was all I played back in the day and I'm sure I kept coming back to it because I enjoyed the simplicity. I was up for adding more depth but I feel the only depth that has been added to the game is pseudo-depth - more weapons - more cores - allowing you to do the same sort of things that you could already do, just either worse or better than what could already be done. I know more depth is coming in terms of FCNC, but will this community ever be large enough to support that game mode? I just feel the LT approach of the game has been diluted and that was its strongest point and this has ruined the fun for me personally. I know I am a 'vet', and have many opinions that may not conform to everyone's views, least of all the people in charge, but if the game isn't fun for me because of these issues, than that must mean that some new person, or some new group also might not find the game fun, and that is all I am trying to address.
imliterallyshaska
Member
completely agree with *Fireblasto*.
when legions was LT like, it was the most fun imo. you were pressured to force the new weapons and cores into the game and now most of them arent used or are overpowered.
i used to love legions because of how simple it is but i completely agree with *Fireblasto* on how it just ruined the game. i dont find it nearly as fun as it used to be.
mostly the dodge core, its ridiculous.
when legions was LT like, it was the most fun imo. you were pressured to force the new weapons and cores into the game and now most of them arent used or are overpowered.
i used to love legions because of how simple it is but i completely agree with *Fireblasto* on how it just ruined the game. i dont find it nearly as fun as it used to be.
mostly the dodge core, its ridiculous.
Solid
Private Tester
I agree with boost grenades; they do get spammed a lot and this causes the flag and you to bounce everywhere whilst taking damage because everyone is spamming them which is pretty annoying.
One thing i'd like is that the boost nades damage on other people would be removed but the damage on the player using them remains, this would allow the boost nades to do it's purpose of boosting. This will be good because this means that people can't use the boost nades for both duelling and boosting. An alternative of boost nade damage/boosting is that people can use is boost core and frag grenades. Therefore, leaving the frag grenades to be used for combat purposes. This is just what I would like to see change, you all will have a different view/opinion.
Also, imo i don't think the Raider is that underpowered, but it may be underused in America as i mainly see outriders but it's not the same case in EU as it's pretty balanced with Outriders and Raiders and even Sents. The raider is capable of gaining great speed and is great for both capping and chasing, but this is my opinion because a lot of people know i pretty much only use Raider. A lot of players will agree/disagree that the Raider is a versatile class but i'd have to agree that outrider does have certain advantages over it. That's just my opinion! say what you want.
One thing i'd like is that the boost nades damage on other people would be removed but the damage on the player using them remains, this would allow the boost nades to do it's purpose of boosting. This will be good because this means that people can't use the boost nades for both duelling and boosting. An alternative of boost nade damage/boosting is that people can use is boost core and frag grenades. Therefore, leaving the frag grenades to be used for combat purposes. This is just what I would like to see change, you all will have a different view/opinion.
Also, imo i don't think the Raider is that underpowered, but it may be underused in America as i mainly see outriders but it's not the same case in EU as it's pretty balanced with Outriders and Raiders and even Sents. The raider is capable of gaining great speed and is great for both capping and chasing, but this is my opinion because a lot of people know i pretty much only use Raider. A lot of players will agree/disagree that the Raider is a versatile class but i'd have to agree that outrider does have certain advantages over it. That's just my opinion! say what you want.
BugsPray
Legions Developer
Sadly, there is no way to perfectly appeal to everyone's tastes. There are people who do not play Legions because it has horizontal air control, overdrive, and downjet. There are people who do not play it because they don't think there ENOUGH in the game like turrets, vehicles, base assets. I'm glad you are bringing up your concerns with the game. Also, you seem to have a fixation with Jordan's opinion, which is not the final say by any means about what goes into the game. He's got a red name and that's scary, but I remember you and I had a good talk about grenades once and I think we were coming to consensus on some things.
Also, re: Shaska's comment about no one using overpowered cores (wut?): The last time I played there was a pretty even spread and I saw almost every core being used for almost every role. I haven't played in about half a week but did things change in the last few days?
asdfghaaaaMUK
Member
everyone used shield on both offense and defense pre-nerf. now everyone uses dodge on both offense and defense with the exception of a few people using shield. turrets, vechiles and base assets are all gay and i hope are never implemented in this game. i dont understand why the red named people wont listen to what we give them back as feedback. everyone is telling you that 5 boosts is too much, everyone also told you that shield after flag grab was dumb and it still is. you make the game for your players, not for yourself. im so happy this game is extinct now.
WildFire
Warrior of Linux
I totally appreciate this statement, I really do, but I've come to form the opinion that maybe legions should just stick to its roots in its LT approach, with a few minor additions that are beneficial to the gameplay and simplicity of it.
BugsPray
Legions Developer
I think I found the reason why you may feel like your feedback is falling on deaf ears. Hint: It's not because you don't like turrets, "vechiles," and base assets.
I agree with you on the shield.
Which players are those? The ones that want base assets or the ones that don't? What about current players or players we WANT to bring in. Do you think everyone wants LT? Do you remember when Legions was on IA? It was pretty common knowledge that the game was EARLY beta and they were intending to implement many more game features (including base assets), and most people left because the game just didn't have enough to it. Have you ever noticed how a move to LT is a response by the community against dwindling numbers? It was true in T1 and T2. LT takes over when it becomes hard to field a larger team and players become lazy (which is a common theme already brought up in this thread). Players tend to force other players to their personal play styles when they can, but games should support many play styles otherwise they'll doom themselves to appeal to a smaller subset of the total potential community.
See, now my personal opinion is (having played Tribes and pretty much every related game/project since 98), Legions is pretty simple overall compared to those games. There's no sensor network, there's no power grid, no base assets/deployables, there are no vehicles, and there's no money/currency. There is incredible complexity around movement in the game (which to me is its hallmark), and that is contributed to by horizontal movement and some of the cores, but beyond that, it's a piss-simple game compared to other Tribes games.
I would love to hear your suggestions on how you would modify stock Legions to appeal to a broader set of players while keeping the current ones happy, because this has, and always will be the mindset behind the red names.
asdfghaaaaMUK
Member
who would ever want assets and ai turret in any game? ta pubs are *chocolate cookies* because of them, tf2 pubs are *chocolate cookies* because of them, firefall pubs are *chocolate cookies* because of them. i understand you want to make the game ezpz compared to what it was on ia, but if you're going to add base assets and turret, atleast have people be required to mount them to shoot. legions in ia was never in any time very croweded at all.
Armageddon
Teapot
Honestly i don't think thats possible without making 2 versions of the game or some gametype to strip legions back to it's old LT state. The players from IA became to use too how the game played out and since the first weapon update we have lost a lot of players from that time. We have also gained some aswell. I look at it like a generation gap, neither side will be 100% happy with the game because Old timers want the IA legions model back and the new gen want more items and things added. I really don't envy the devs, they are in a tough spot trying to make this game appeal to everyone and doing so as free labor... and then dealing with our *chocolate cookies* as well. Myself i use to love how simple leejunz was but i've grown to enjoy legions just as much. You gotta take the game for what it's becoming and be thankful that it's still around to play.
Fixious
Test Lead
I did. Setting up a base defense was one my favorite things about Tribes, along with attacking a well defended base and finding out how to get around it. Mind you this was mainly on Annihilation servers, where capping the flag wasn't really a huge focus, but instead building and attacking defenses was. It was a huge amount of fun for me and a lot of people, and I still go back every once in a while and play on those servers because I miss it. I was hoping with the inclusion of Engineer and assets, we could have something that at least partially brought back that gameplay. I tested quite a bit of the Engineer system, and am sad that it'll probably be a long time till we see if back (if ever).
Turrets and assets don't 'dumb' down gameplay. I really wish you could have been around for T1's heyday, or at least a few years ago when Annihilation was fairly populated. It introduced many new ideas to the game, and required you to think how you'd get past a different kind of defense. I don't see them dumbing down other games like Firefall either, but then again I've only stuck to the PVE aspect. Setting down a few turrets around a Thumper helps, but they certainly can't do they job just by themselves (especially when you set down larger Thumpers). In an ideal world we'd have enough players to populate several servers throughout the day, with one or two of them supporting the engineer core. That way if you weren't a fan of it, you could simply play on normal CTF servers.
As for Cores ruining Legions, I don't agree with that either. I'm fine with all of them, but would like to see some changes made. Pop has already nerfed Dodge's damage reduction, and is working on putting in some energy drain. I'm ok with Shield being used with flag, but I also wouldn't mind seeing it also drain energy upon activation (how it originally worked). I think each core should have some sort of trade-off, and the Shield has none. The chaingun thing should also be fixed if it hasn't already, and maybe an increase in cool-down. As for Regen, I agree that the amount Sents receive through its AOE is pretty tiny. That and the radius could get a buff. Warp is warp. Sadly I haven't seen any kind of coordination with someone setting up a warp scar for their capper now that they can go through them while holding the flag, but other techniques have come about. Boost seems ok, even if people rage when I use it on Nivo. And OD is...OD.
AFireInAsa
#1
Boost grenades have less of a tradeoff and are primarily used. That is why. The extra mobility is invaluable and the (from what I remember) larger splash radius make it used more than frags.
I don't think this is a good idea. Boost grenades are probably the most valuable weapon to stop people regening behind obstacles which I believe is good for gameplay.
Here are the three fixes I think can be done to boost grenades (not all of which at the same time have to be done, in fact just one of these would probably work):
1. Drop limit to 3
2. Decrease damage (I believe the splash radius should stay for the reasons mentioned above)
3. Increase fuse time. This might be a good option because it wouldn't effect comboing, just combat uses.
I think EMPS should definitely be dropped to 2 so they're primarily used by cappers trying to hit the HoF and would really need a well timed nade from someone on LO to stop him from stopping the capper.