The Great Heavy Capping Thread

[Royalty]

I've read some other threads and looked around, and while there has been some discussion about heavy capping, there isn't a dedicated thread for it. So here I go.

Firstly, if you don't agree with what I'm saying then fine. Everyone has their own opinions.

I personally dislike heavy capping. Heavy capping shouldn't be allowed. Why you may ask? Read on.

Consider this:

1. A heavy is hard to kill- Even player who can ping virtually 0 in a server admits it is frigging hard to chase and kill a heavy capper. (Actually the chasing part of it is easy). Even St3lth for example, who pings 0 in the JP servers was complaining about this on TS. And St3lth is a damn good chaser.
2. A heavy not designed for capping- Let's face it. If the main focus of a Sentinel was to grab and cap the flag, the devs would of made a copy of an Outrider, given it a few extra parts so it didn't even resemble an Outrider, and call it a Sentinel. Sents shouldn't be used for capping.
3. Even a heavy can go from one base in Nivosus and back in less than 20 seconds- On a larger map such as Zenith Cauldron, a chaser has time to shoot 15 rockets at a Sent and return the flag. They simply don't have the time to kill a Sent on Nivosus or Moonshine, before he's already capped the flag.

Now do the following-

• Read number one again- And nod in agreement.
• Read number two again- And nod in agreement.
• Read number three again- And nod in agreement.
• Play Legions- And try chasing down a heavy capper on Nivosus, come back to this thread, and post a message of some guy nodding in agreement.

Thanks. Now nod in agreement.

My solution for heavy capping: Don't let Sents grab the flag. Let them pick it up and catch it, just don't let them grab the flag.

 

[Abandoned]

Can we stop with the "The Great ... Thread"? Get your own damn thread title.

You cannot base this thread about chasing heavies from only one person's opinion.

 

[Royalty]

Can we stop with the "The Great ... Thread"? Get your own damn thread title.

lol it's kinda funny

You cannot base this thread about chasing heavies from only one person's opinion.

That's why there is a "reply" and "post" function which you just used, so people can voice their opinion.

 

[ColoredSpades]

Text

1. It's just experienced players who have used Heavy a lot. I for one have not seen very many complaints on this while I played.

2. Well an OR isn't designed for defense. People do use it for that anyways and attempt to BB.

3. Well you can't exactly chase anyone else since it's such a small map, right? I mean chasing on nivo once someone's left the base through the front is virtually impossible unless you have a well placed nade/mortar/rocket/spray of chain bullets

 

[RockeyRex]

Limiting these things should never be the answer.

 

[Royalty]

2. Well an OR isn't designed for defense. People do use it for that anyways and attempt to BB.

That's because the OR is chasing and trying to occupy himself while his flag is home.

 

[Disci]

Oh there are so many things wrong in this thread that I will just throw up in here and move along.

 

[Application-1]

People just don't know how to heavy cap, that is the problem. Everyone just goes to enemy base grabs the flag and goes back and shouts: I AM HEAVYCAPPINGZ. Here a simple vid where I made new routes (frostbyte is old though) just to show everyone how you heavy cap.

Why go in outrider and grab the flag at 250 on zenith if you can do the same with sentinel at 190-200 and have that much more armour and a great weapon to bomb the flag with like mortar/cluster is what I always say.

Now that we got that out of the way, yes the heavy is broken. Something we all already knew. And when looking at heavycapping it is not all about the iOD that it has. It is more about the fact that in this game skiing is annoyingly easy. Imo they need to change the way a heavy skiis. And not by increasing its mass because that will result in less height but more downwards force wich will even eachother out. They should change it so that a heavy is indeed heavy and therefore can only reach a certain altitude above the ground with his jetpack.

A great example for this is the great waterjetpack:

Because it relies on the fact that it needs water/ground underneath it to fly it is limited to a certain height. It can still go above this maximum height if it has enough momentum. But the jetpack would then be useless untill you return within the max height (above max. height you can only lean left and right to make minimal changes in the sky). Imo this max. height would be 3/4 of a tower, considering you have iOD and if you want to be on that tower so badly you will just have to use that.

This system would make heavy capping the way I do it a lot less effective. You would still be able to do front routes for HO. And a HoF will have a bit more of a harder time, because now if they float around with iOD they can stay there for a long time, this will reduce the time a HoF can be there, and make a HoF do what it is supposed to do on a stand off wich is dueling. And yes HoF can do with a nerf. And when we get base assets a heavy would just have to use iOD to get into a base to get up high there.

Imo this would be a great fix for the heavy, it would make it MUCH more interisting. This is basicly just me throwing my opininion on heavy capping so sorry that I did not really respond to the OP. I would really love to hear the opinion by a dev about this system. Because the way I imagine it it just fixes so many problems with the heavy. If any dev thinks something is unclear then please respond and I will try to explain it. I really want to see this atleast tried out. So please devs look into it and give me your opinion.

Egostroke incoming:
And to support this idea, I play as heavy a lot and am good at it.

 

[Abandoned]

heavycappingsoOP

An ourider can bodyblock a sentinel. :s

 

[RiPTaCk]

Maybe kill the heavy when he arrives in your base before he grabs the flag. If someone is heavycapping then you can just stay at home and kill him again and again. He will loose interest soon, ragequit or try a new tactic

But as always it is more exciting to chase with 5 people trying to be the one killing the ennemy flag carrier and returning it first.

People tend to complain about stuff rather than doing the "dirty work", such as LO and StayD, themselves.
I ,once again, can only refer to a post that was made a long time ago. In this case I suggest looking at number 2).

1) Legions is CTF, if you don't know, anytime, where your flag is and where the enemy flag is, you're failing.

2) Legions is Teamplay, if something is missing in your team, LO LD FC or something else, it's your fault, you have to play that role.

3) Legions is fair, every time you win 10 -0 today, you deserve to lose 10 -0 tomorrow. Always balance the teams.

4) If your fc loses the flag in your base it's your fault, you should be there to help him

5) The team that doesn't attack in a standoff is miserably doomed to fail. Always.

6) Noobs are your responsibility, teach them how to play. You were a noob too.

7) There is no lucky shot. There is a good shot.

8) You have to respect other players if you want to be respected.

9) Look around, constantly, there's always a more important target. Both on offence and defence.

10) Doesn't matter your score, doesn't matter if you win or lose. what's important is playing good.

 

[MJ1284]

An ourider can bodyblock a sentinel. :s

A Sentinel can one-shot Outrider with half-assed shot... AND Sentinel can iOD after getting BB'ed and act like nothing happened.

Derp?

 

[prometheus11]

Riptack, great quotation. I agree completely.

Something I would say about heavy capping (and the mortar) is if you've got a problem...learn a tactic that will work against heavy capping. How about sent chasing? Removes the issue of "half-ass instant kills" and "iOD" making BBing useless right? Since if you're also a sent then you have the same capabilities? Learn to chase as a sent. Not saying I can, simply pointing out that since everyone is given the same tools, aka classes, weapons...then what is done by some must be able to be countered by another given the right skill and tactics correct?

Granted there's the problem of fattie 200 capping right? But surely there's a way to get around that? BBing? Timed mortars? Overdrive blocking? Since everyone has the same capabilities, the game is completely fair. Use the tools to learn new tactics to beat the ones that are frustrating. That's the beauty of a game like this. New capabilities = new challenges and new victories.

 

[Karnage]

A Sentinel can one-shot Outrider with half-assed shot... AND Sentinel can iOD after getting BB'ed and act like nothing happened.

Derp?

If the HoF sees a sent trying to cap he can drag him down with his own iOD thereby rendering him unable to cap. It works, I know.

Great posts Prometheus and RipTack. I would just like to add though that although what you say is true it still doesn't stop the Heavy Offence people who just go over to the enemy base, hide somewhere and drop random mortars. As a HoF there is little I can do about them. I am forced to leave my stand and the LD usually doesn't take care of them either because it is too time-consuming to kill them. This is the main problem I have with Heavy O at the moment. One I can handle but when there are two or even up to four heavies doing that there is a big problem.

 

[Disci]

One I can handle but when there are two or even up to four heavies doing that there is a big problem.

This is not a problem really. If you go on any other game which is like Legions(Tribes mainly) you will see the same stuff happening on pubs. It's because people have freedom to choose what ever class they want. It's not about what is effective and what is not, they play a class they find interesting and atm sentinel with mortar lets most kill people the easisest.

Most of the time on PT server there are way too many people and it's a total mess every time. Expect many HO's, llamas, team killers etc roaming around. When it's about competition class choices are limited to what is effective and there are no 4 HO's spamming the flag. Don't play pub game like you would play compeitive match, play to have fun. If standing on the flag is getting on your nerves because you get *danced* by enemy HO's then go spam their flag. Return the favor, like some would say.

 

[Abandoned]

This is not a problem really. If you go on any other game which is like Legions(Tribes mainly) you will see the same stuff happening on pubs. It's because people have freedom to choose what ever class they want. It's not about what is effective and what is not, they play a class they find interesting and atm sentinel with mortar lets most kill people the easisest.

Most of the time on PT server there are way too many people and it's a total mess every time. Expect many HO's, llamas, team killers etc roaming around. When it's about competition class choices are limited to what is effective and there are no 4 HO's spamming the flag. Don't play pub game like you would play compeitive match, play to have fun. If standing on the flag is getting on your nerves because you get *danced* by enemy HO's then go spam their flag. Return the favor, like some would say.

Do whatever you want in pubs...

Err, no. That's the attitude which makes this game not appealing for most of the people I've talked to. You *chocolate cookies* heads don't understand this but keep it on your mind when you realise pubs are empty and the game is dead. You don't do what ever you want on pubs, periord. HO and Heavy capping is ok in my books. Spamming the flag stand when there is your own team mates standing next to the flag isn't. There are clear rules what you can do and what not and team killing/damaging on purpose has always been banned. It's banned even if you're able to pull the capper kills 100% of times.

Sometimes I wish I could lecture you guys so hard that you would think of your actions for the next 5 days.

I'm confused here, Disci. What are you trying to say?

 

[bethal]

just like to *nod* completely as I dis-agree with the amount of fatties I see in the game now, 2 in a small game is a fun challange for me playing my outrider I love.

fatty vs outrider though I started to play like an outrider and danced around the base, I don't care how accurate they hit them mortars, there very slow and I can hide behind stuff where they find it hard to reach. so they can't fully defend. as for capping, a sent just can't cap as fast as a outrider. chasing isn't much of an issue as it is a lamma with full heath. you just chase and hope for the best. and defence can easily see a fatty comeing so it's easyer to get some shots in. snipeing a fatty is like shooting a brick wall, hard to miss. so get a good 40% more down with 2 shots I think. personally I think the sniper should be very good against a sent if the sent can 1 shot the outrider. makes sence no?

the sent capping is not overpowerd personally. it's always been like this where the sent can cap. sent capping is very different, a chaser on it's tail will just as evenly kill the sent as good, difference being the sent can quickly iOD to another direction to shake it off for abit. the amount of damage a sent takes trying to cap and keep up to speed is funny though. just want to point out whats wrong, the sent capping or the mortar 1 shotting people, and the morter love getting high there is a higher number of people playing them?

 

[MJ1284]

This is not a problem really. If you go on any other game which is like Legions(Tribes mainly) you will see the same stuff happening on pubs. It's because people have freedom to choose what ever class they want. It's not about what is effective and what is not, they play a class they find interesting and atm sentinel with mortar lets most kill people the easisest.

Most of the time on PT server there are way too many people and it's a total mess every time. Expect many HO's, llamas, team killers etc roaming around. When it's about competition class choices are limited to what is effective and there are no 4 HO's spamming the flag. Don't play pub game like you would play compeitive match, play to have fun. If standing on the flag is getting on your nerves because you get *danced* by enemy HO's then go spam their flag. Return the favor, like some would say.

HO's & llamas & TK's sure sound like fun...

 

[Disci]

HO's & llamas & TK's sure sound like fun...

What you want to do about it? It's imo not a broken game, it's just how people play it. In competitive matches there are pretty much none of them because it's not effective. I'd love to hear some suggestions how you would fix something that isn't really broken.

I'm confused here, Disci. What are you trying to say?

You sure are dumb, aren't you?

 

[Immanent]

This is not a problem really. If you go on any other game which is like Legions(Tribes mainly) you will see the same stuff happening on pubs. It's because people have freedom to choose what ever class they want. It's not about what is effective and what is not, they play a class they find interesting and atm sentinel with mortar lets most kill people the easisest.​

Most of the time on PT server there are way too many people and it's a total mess every time. Expect many HO's, llamas, team killers etc roaming around. When it's about competition class choices are limited to what is effective and there are no 4 HO's spamming the flag. Don't play pub game like you would play compeitive match, play to have fun. If standing on the flag is getting on your nerves because you get *danced* by enemy HO's then go spam their flag. Return the favor, like some would say.​

​

Do whatever you want in pubs...​

​

Err, no. That's the attitude which makes this game not appealing for most of the people I've talked to. You *chocolate cookies* heads don't understand this but keep it on your mind when you realise pubs are empty and the game is dead. You don't do what ever you want on pubs, periord. HO and Heavy capping is ok in my books. Spamming the flag stand when there is your own team mates standing next to the flag isn't. There are clear rules what you can do and what not and team killing/damaging on purpose has always been banned. It's banned even if you're able to pull the capper kills 100% of times.​

Sometimes I wish I could lecture you guys so hard that you would think of your actions for the next 5 days.​

Abandoned does seem to have a point here Disci, but you are contradicting yourself. From reading the excerpts abandoned has provided, it does seem that you are saying "do whatever you want", and he says that too.
To be honest, I don't think it should be a bannable offense, because think about the new people trying to learn how to mortar and end up getting banned. Now that's not fair, because using mortar effectively in the enemies base while not dying is not so easy.
Because mortar's are sentinels only, it should make sense that the person who is defending with them is playing Heavy Defense or HoF, hence, everyother player should get the crap off the flagstand, as it is not their job and they are just putting themselves in danger.

If the HoF sees a sent trying to cap he can drag him down with his own iOD thereby rendering him unable to cap. It works, I know.

Great posts Prometheus and RipTack. I would just like to add though that although what you say is true it still doesn't stop the Heavy Offence people who just go over to the enemy base, hide somewhere and drop random mortars. As a HoF there is little I can do about them. I am forced to leave my stand and the LD usually doesn't take care of them either because it is too time-consuming to kill them. This is the main problem I have with Heavy O at the moment. One I can handle but when there are two or even up to four heavies doing that there is a big problem.

You need more people to play SaH, rather than LD, because the LD I've seen like to chase at any whims of llamas grabbing the flag. SaH is unappealing to many people because it's *dancing* boring. Actually it's not and they just need to learn to duel or engage the LO or Chasers at least.

I've read some other threads and looked around, and while there has been some discussion about heavy capping, there isn't a dedicated thread for it. So here I go.

Firstly, if you don't agree with what I'm saying then fine. Everyone has their own opinions.

I personally dislike heavy capping. Heavy capping shouldn't be allowed. Why you may ask? Read on.

Consider this:

1. A heavy is hard to kill- Even player who can ping virtually 0 in a server admits it is frigging hard to chase and kill a heavy capper. (Actually the chasing part of it is easy). Even St3lth for example, who pings 0 in the JP servers was complaining about this on TS. And St3lth is a damn good chaser.

HAH. You must have forgotten the miracles that <15 ping can achieve my friend. It is child's play. St3lth is a very good chaser, no question about it. But maybe the skill of killing heavy cappers depends on the individual chasing, not the heavy user itself (although that plays a large role). I for one have no trouble chasing them on smaller maps (frost, nivo, moonshine) for they cannot build up enough speed. But I do understand the trouble he may have on larger maps when experienced Senti's can very well achieve over 200m/s (holy tits) and exit the base quickly (fallout).

 

[Disci]

When I said you are not suppose to be able to do what ever you want on pubs, I ment team killing, bad mannered behaviour and other kind of griefing. Must be really difficult to figure that out, huh?