Ucantry2run
Private Tester
Thats not how I think about it at all... But I'm sorry to hear that you don't care anymore. I wasn't trying to belittle your opinion or anything.
Lower or remove the damage reduction while dodging
- Thread starter scoot
- Start date
Glad it took you 3 years to realize that...
Still, some fixes I would like to see eventually:
- dmg taken from boost should be % (not defined value across all classes)
- shield should have nice round 30% dmg reduction for both self/normal dmg
- dodge should take 1/4 from energy and also take full dmg if hit during its use
- disable use of cores if energy is under 25%
- disable use of cores when holding the flag (even i/OD)
Maxter
Member
Alright Xtreme, I'll humour you, but first, let me tell you this; before you drop your opinion on how something should be, also mention why. Very important.
Boost core: I disagree, and it should be a definite value, not % based. The reason for this is very simple. Consider Boost core's alternative, the boost grenade. Let's say an Outrider gets an average of 4 uses out of the boost grenade before he dies, a Raider gets 5 because of his +25 health. Per boost, the velocity acquired by Outrider is greater than what the Raider gets, but since the Raider is able to squeeze in another boost after the 4 uses, the traits balance each other out. The balance here is between acquired speed Vs resilience.
But, as per your suggestion, if we keep it % based(let's say 20% as an example), both Raider and Outrider will get same number of boosts. What you need to observe here is that the gap in the gain in velocity is too large while the price is the same(percentage-wise of course). In a nutshell, keep it % based, and the Raider is screwed(that's how it is right now actually, both classes take 21% damage when boost core is used).
Shield core: Elaborate Xtreme. I personally don't have a problem with the current iteration of the Shield, with the core being immune to CG fire, 50% damage absorption from external fire, 20% absorption from self-inflicted(I'm unsure about this actually, so let me know if I'm wrong). Don't understand why you'd want it toned down to 30%, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on that before I say anything.
Dodge core: Agreed on the zero damage absorption part at least. If somebody uses Dodge to evade a rocket but gets hit on the head by a grenade, he should take full damage from that. All perks to this core unrelated to dodging, need to be scrapped immediately. I can provide suggestions to how Dodge can be improved, with a couple of abilities added to it, which are actually relevant to it's primary function.
Cores usage conditions:
25% energy requirement: I like this one. Something that's actually worth debating about. Maybe even add something like a handicap gamemode with this sort of thing.
Core Vs Flag Carrier: Alright, I tested this. The cores that work with flag in hand are OD, iOD, Shield and Dodge(what, is this like the 10th thing the Dodge can do? sigh...). Dodge definitely needs to be toned down on a lot of levels here, this keeps getting ridiculous by the minute, especially when it comes to being usable while holding the flag. Both Shield and Dodge need to be made unusable while holding the flag, no argument there. I'm unsure about OD, I don't think there's any need to do that, but I also think it won't make a difference either way.
No to iOD being unusable. Are you serious, Xtreme? Imagine a Sentinel not able to iOD because he has the flag, as if the already existing handicaps aren't enough.
Boost core: I disagree, and it should be a definite value, not % based. The reason for this is very simple. Consider Boost core's alternative, the boost grenade. Let's say an Outrider gets an average of 4 uses out of the boost grenade before he dies, a Raider gets 5 because of his +25 health. Per boost, the velocity acquired by Outrider is greater than what the Raider gets, but since the Raider is able to squeeze in another boost after the 4 uses, the traits balance each other out. The balance here is between acquired speed Vs resilience.
But, as per your suggestion, if we keep it % based(let's say 20% as an example), both Raider and Outrider will get same number of boosts. What you need to observe here is that the gap in the gain in velocity is too large while the price is the same(percentage-wise of course). In a nutshell, keep it % based, and the Raider is screwed(that's how it is right now actually, both classes take 21% damage when boost core is used).
Shield core: Elaborate Xtreme. I personally don't have a problem with the current iteration of the Shield, with the core being immune to CG fire, 50% damage absorption from external fire, 20% absorption from self-inflicted(I'm unsure about this actually, so let me know if I'm wrong). Don't understand why you'd want it toned down to 30%, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on that before I say anything.
Dodge core: Agreed on the zero damage absorption part at least. If somebody uses Dodge to evade a rocket but gets hit on the head by a grenade, he should take full damage from that. All perks to this core unrelated to dodging, need to be scrapped immediately. I can provide suggestions to how Dodge can be improved, with a couple of abilities added to it, which are actually relevant to it's primary function.
Cores usage conditions:
25% energy requirement: I like this one. Something that's actually worth debating about. Maybe even add something like a handicap gamemode with this sort of thing.
Core Vs Flag Carrier: Alright, I tested this. The cores that work with flag in hand are OD, iOD, Shield and Dodge(what, is this like the 10th thing the Dodge can do? sigh...). Dodge definitely needs to be toned down on a lot of levels here, this keeps getting ridiculous by the minute, especially when it comes to being usable while holding the flag. Both Shield and Dodge need to be made unusable while holding the flag, no argument there. I'm unsure about OD, I don't think there's any need to do that, but I also think it won't make a difference either way.
No to iOD being unusable. Are you serious, Xtreme? Imagine a Sentinel not able to iOD because he has the flag, as if the already existing handicaps aren't enough.
It's quite self explanatory, seeing as cores atm are irritating anyone with at least some common sense.
yeah I was confused before, in fact I think I mean exactly the opposite (namely absolute value across all classes) so this way it's proportional (eg. momentum difference from boost core is compensated by difference in dmg taken)
Just seems unreasonable to take half dmg even though there is no cost atm. So either 30% global dmg absorption or make it use energy. Also I noticed now that warp takes more hp the faster you go. I never use it but seems a bit unfair for those who do
Just like regen and warp, it's only fair that all cores should be disabled when you have the flag. Yes, even iOD - maybe try dueling for a change!
Maxter
Member
You're forgetting the Shield core's got only 2 secs before it disappears, it's not unreasonable at all. There are multiple ways to deal with it if you think someone's being especially annoying with it, one of them being the Blaster Rifle. Other ways are to just wait, use EMP etc. I like the self damage absorption rate at 20% too. It's not too low to be irrelevant and not too high to be abusive. And I hope it's 20% absorption not some set value. If that's the case, it'll be more effective the heavier your class.
Unfortunately, iOD is like the spine of Sentinel movement, until something can be done so that Sentinels are actually usable on D without the iOD, it's stuck with that. I've been playing Sentinel and HoF a lot lately, and I have to tell you, just trying to levitate slightly above the ground is very taxing, not to mention the super slow regeneration of energy.
Unfortunately, iOD is like the spine of Sentinel movement, until something can be done so that Sentinels are actually usable on D without the iOD, it's stuck with that. I've been playing Sentinel and HoF a lot lately, and I have to tell you, just trying to levitate slightly above the ground is very taxing, not to mention the super slow regeneration of energy.
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WildFire
Warrior of Linux
Every one of xtremes ideas is dead on right. Well, to at least fix the game superficially. The biggest problem I think with the game at the moment is the Sentinel and bloody iOD. Seriously, just reduce health by 50 but give the sentinel more movement and get rid of iOD and replace it with dodge to block in coming cappers effectively.
ContingencyPl4n
Elite Pro Mapmaker
So make it a raider with less movement?
Armageddon
Teapot
Next to saying "We should remove frostbyte from rotation" that is possibly the dumbest thing anyone could say is "The biggest problem with the game".
Gheist may have been right about you this whole time...
Maxter
Member
How so? Are you talking about just making the Sentinel lighter? If so, It's just going to turn into a mockery of Raider with slightly more health. And replace it with Dodge? Really? Have you been reading any of the posts on this thread at all?
Stop looking towards Dodge to solve all the problems in this game, that core is not meant to do anything more than what it was made for, and what it was made for is to assist players with dodging, not to bulldoze kill other players, not to hitscan return flags, not to absorb damage and act like the Shield core.
Damn guys, no need to be so snarky.
Ucantry2run
Private Tester
WE DON'T NEED PERSONAL ATTACKS OR HOSTILITY GUYS
I actually don't think that the dodge core should replace iOD. Then it would have to be buffed to actually be able to block players consistently because right now it is pretty difficult to hit anyone with dodge in the first place. We don't need it being overpowered in every aspect of the game. Also that would make any class able to block unless you want to change the dodge specifically for the sentinel which would be kinda weird. What did you have in mind?
I actually don't think that the dodge core should replace iOD. Then it would have to be buffed to actually be able to block players consistently because right now it is pretty difficult to hit anyone with dodge in the first place. We don't need it being overpowered in every aspect of the game. Also that would make any class able to block unless you want to change the dodge specifically for the sentinel which would be kinda weird. What did you have in mind?
Jordahan
World Leader of The 21st Century
Keep it civil guys, or I will Nuke this *chocolate cookies* into outer orbit!
stefygraff
Private Tester
You guys were given EMP nades for good reasons, use them nabs! Indeed dodge core is very annoying when you know how to use but EMP nades disable cores so its not a big fuss.
IMO cores atm are pretty fine at the moment because you can criple the enemy player with only one shot (if you have a good aim).
I would still make is to Shield core and Dodge core cant grab the flag off the flag stand, thats my only problem, but lower or remove the damage fron D. core... nah ty
IMO cores atm are pretty fine at the moment because you can criple the enemy player with only one shot (if you have a good aim).
I would still make is to Shield core and Dodge core cant grab the flag off the flag stand, thats my only problem, but lower or remove the damage fron D. core... nah ty
Maxter
Member
I never had a problem with dealing with players dodging with Dodge core. Sure they move around a lot and are annoying to kill, but I never complained about that part of the core because that is what it was meant to do. But what I see as a problem is the imbalance created between the cores because of the multiple abilities of this one core.
If somebody dodged into my mortar because they wanted to evade a rocket and took a hit, why isn't that person just as severely damaged/dead as any other would in that person's place but without the Dodge core? Why should that person be able to absorb 50% damage done instead of taking the full damage?
Why should these guys have the ability to do damage to other people when dodging into them and have the ability of cooldown reset afterwards? This morning when I was playing as HoF, XLR used dodge in front of me to evade my block, not only did he get the flag from behind me, he did 30% damage to me, while retaining the ability to use dodge once again. What skill did that involve?
EMP acts as a counter to every core, not just Dodge, but it's not a solution. The solution is to remove abilities of the Dodge which don't compliment it's "dodge" mechanic(like the things I mentioned above, and in many other places), while adding things that would. No one so far was able to truly justify the absurd abilities of this core on this thread. All I got was "Well, not all cores need to have a pro and con system"
If somebody dodged into my mortar because they wanted to evade a rocket and took a hit, why isn't that person just as severely damaged/dead as any other would in that person's place but without the Dodge core? Why should that person be able to absorb 50% damage done instead of taking the full damage?
Why should these guys have the ability to do damage to other people when dodging into them and have the ability of cooldown reset afterwards? This morning when I was playing as HoF, XLR used dodge in front of me to evade my block, not only did he get the flag from behind me, he did 30% damage to me, while retaining the ability to use dodge once again. What skill did that involve?
EMP acts as a counter to every core, not just Dodge, but it's not a solution. The solution is to remove abilities of the Dodge which don't compliment it's "dodge" mechanic(like the things I mentioned above, and in many other places), while adding things that would. No one so far was able to truly justify the absurd abilities of this core on this thread. All I got was "Well, not all cores need to have a pro and con system"
