Legions physics

[Strife]

Unfortunately, legions will probably never get any new weapons or weapons upgrades since they 'ruin the game'. Even if you did get a balanced weapon, it would still take lots of skill to use like the LR or CG. Basically stuff like "we will never have a shotgun" because Mabel said so.

I'm going to be frank here because I dislike postulations such as this. You're talking about things you know little to nothing about and, while you're entitled to your opinions, that doesn't mean you should blurt them out on the forums, especially if you're attempting to pass opinion off as fact. Yes, Mabel did say so, but not solely out of spite for the idea like you're implying (that's not to say Mabel didn't dislike the idea, though, he could have). There was testing done with a shotgun and it was deemed unsuitable and, thus, was not implemented.

Other then sci-fi weapons, I can't think of any other weapons, unless you modify rockets or another weapon. They already gave us the RLII, I don't know anyone who can use this skillfully and to me, it's basically a raider with a chaingun and RL. Atleast the gunner class has a grenade launcher and continue to fire rockets without letting go.

Simply because you lack the imaginative ability to come up with a new weapon idea does not mean that everyone else is impaired with the same ineptitude. It should go without saying that the game is still in development (hence the title "beta") and it will take some time for changes to be pushed through, especially with a small development team.

If there was a balanced weapon, I'm sure it would be in the game already; Using T2 as an example, there are a good amount of weapons like the blaster or shocklance, but it's not really a weapon to kill. ( the blaster does very little damage and takes energy, the shocklance is a close-range weapon and you need to have stealth to kill someone with it). So if there were new weapons, the older weapons such as the CG and RL would still be better and the new weapons would be 'toys' like the blaster and shocklance for people who want to show off how good they are with a crappy weapon.

Why are you sure of that? Do you know that much about the inner workings of our development team? Mabel and co. were limited in what they could do with Legions when it was on IA for reasons that are fairly obvious. Now that they're pretty much free to do as they please (as far as development is concerned) things will be different.

I don't see any weapons updates that significantly change the gameplay of legions in the future. All I see is new maps and silly things like clan tags or whatever, nothing that changes our gameplay. But that's just my opinion...

Yeah, who needs new maps to play on? I don't want to play anything but Frostbyte. I'm going to point you to the start of my second response. Additionally, "silly things like clan tags or whatever" are very nice things to have and in no way does adding those small things mean larger changes will not be made.

 

[GundamExia00]

I think I know what he's trying to say. Basically, a marker that show's you where to aim, but doesn't aim for you. This old game reminds me of what he is trying to say, skip to the middle and you'll see a red marker where you have to aim.

Thats basically movement prediction which most of us already use in this game.

It's basically your ping, the enemy's ping, enemy speed, your speed, weapon speed, distance between you and the target. It's basically one step away from making an aimbot.

 

[OmniNept]

WOW STRIFE DON'T YOU FEEL LIKE A DICK AFTER READING THAT PLEASANT RESPONSE?

Unless your a private tester, a developer, or good friends with Mabel; you don't know anything about content updates.

Right here. In fact, I've started talking to Mabel only to receive news on content updates. Here's a little advice from someone in the know: Fighter Jets.

That is all.

 

[Gheist]

[...] I know the game is still in beta, but from my perspective all I see is maps and small changes to the game such as clan tags. I know there might be other things like bug fixes and make things lagg less in the future, but it doesn't make the game any more entertaining... just easier. When I see a significant change in the game like a new weapon or changes to the physics, that is balanced doesn't ruin the game. I'll be stumped. [...]

You might want to read the posts of those cute fellows with the red names. Lots of stuff was already officially announced and is being worked on.

Nonetheless: The topic of this thread is something different.

 

[SeymourGore]

You might want to read the posts of those cute fellows with the red names.

DeadGuy's not that cute, quite the opposite actually.

 

[Aki]

Thats basically movement prediction which most of us already use in this game.

It's basically your ping, the enemy's ping, enemy speed, your speed, weapon speed, distance between you and the target. It's basically one step away from making an aimbot.

You are correct in your assessment, but I must stress that the video you're referring to does NOT demonstrate the system I'm talking about.

They system I spoke of in op is one which shows your true aim. Your reticle shows the initial direction of your shot, but the LCOS shows the flight path of your shot, more or less. More accurately, it shows where your shot will be after x seconds or meters. I believe I linked to a yt video showing this system being used in a Greek F-16 Fighting Falcon earlier in this thread.

 

[UtadaHikaru]

You are correct in your assessment, but I must stress that the video you're referring to does NOT demonstrate the system I'm talking about.

They system I spoke of in op is one which shows your true aim. Your reticle shows the initial direction of your shot, but the LCOS shows the flight path of your shot, more or less.

Rockets Fly Straight,
Grenades fall to the ground in an arcing motion,
Chaingun bullets move straight and spread,
Laser rifle fires straight.

If you can't figure out what direction its going to go when you fire it, then I don't even know what to say.

 

[Daphinicus]

Rockets Fly Straight,
Grenades fall to the ground in an arcing motion,
Chaingun bullets move straight and spread,
Laser rifle fires straight.

If you can't figure out what direction its going to go when you fire it, then I don't even know what to say.

See, I'd slap you right now for being so dickish, but I have no trout handy. A slap just isn't fun without a good, hefty trout. So, in lieu of trout-slapping, how about we try to not be so dickish?

Aki's idea might be a step on the path to aimbotting -- that's an argument I'll leave to y'all -- but unless you never miss an MA, I'm guessing your aim ain't so peachy either. The fairness and cheating issue aside, I've no doubt a lot of folks would find Aki's idea surprisingly informative.

 

[Aki]

Rockets Fly Straight,
Grenades fall to the ground in an arcing motion,
Chaingun bullets move straight and spread,
Laser rifle fires straight.

If you can't figure out what direction its going to go when you fire it, then I don't even know what to say.

Obviously everyone knows what direction the shot is going when you pull the trigger. That's what the reticle is for. There's a difference between knowing the initial trajectory and knowing the flight path, especially when you consider that the reticle only shows where the shot is pointing when it leaves the barrel but not the actual direction of travel. Consider when you're flying sideways with CG or RL and you have to aim to the side of your target in order to hit it; this is because the round is traveling sideways, also, when it starts its flight. This information cannot be shown with a simple reticle. That's what the LCOS is for. It shows you both where your shot is pointing and where your shot will actually be after a certain distance.

The most you could do with a reticle is give it long crosshairs with graduations that represent either distances or velocities. Think of sniper rifle scopes that have lines going across the bottom crosshair with distance figures next to them to help the shooter account for bullet drop at range. That could well be enough for some players. I'm actually playing with the concept myself, since I don't even know where to start with programming anything more sophisticated.

I don't want to argue anymore about how close this concept is to an aimbot. As far as I'm concerned, saying something is almost like something is like saying you almost came in first place in a race. Almost--fact is, you DIDN'T. If LCOS is one step away from aimbot, it's still NOT an aimbot. Until it does the aiming for you, it's nothing more than a visual aid like ironsights or reticles. I'm not going to convince anyone else in this community of my opinion, and frankly I don't care what they think. If I could do this on my own, I would have by now. Since I can't, I wanted an intelligent discussion of the possibility of it and what's involved in making such a system work on a computer, solely for the purpose of intellectual stimulation. If you're incapable of having such an intelligent discussion, then stop wasting your time posting in a thread where what you say means nothing and go play some Legions!

 

[Chickenhawk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rouge Squadron II had a reticle similar to what you're getting at, Aki, where the larger green circle stays in the center of the screen and the smaller one shows where the shots will fly to based on how the player is moving at the time of firing.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrowDKi3B2Q&feature=related

It gets easy to see at about 2 minutes in. Just to clarify, since the player is in third-person, the targeting reticle (the smaller, mobile one) isn't centered, but in first-person it is.

With Legions the reticle would move the opposite direction from how it moves in Star Wars though because the camera is always centered on the character's point of view whereas in Star Wars the camera follows at an angle when the speeder turns. It's difficult to explain, but that's how it would work.

Oh, the memories. Such a great game...

 

[Aki]

That's not it, either. That's basically a 3D iron sight that lets the player see where his shots will go while the camera lags behind his movement.

I'll post this video again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C3ePqCI-b8

This is the HUD tape from a Greek F-16 Fighting Falcon who is in Air-to-Air Master Mode with gun selected. A few seconds after the beginning, he acquires his target and switches to LCOS. When he does this, a floating bullseye appears in the HUD next to a line that runs from the gun cross. That is what I'm talking about. It is a computer-controlled, RADAR-independent system that used to be done with magnets and a ball attached to a projector back in the days of prop-driven fighters.

 

[masterluso]

So your saying that the ret floats around near the middle. Like if you are turning, the ret will move first, and then the camera?

 

[Aki]

Omg, just watch the video. It's really easy if you look at it.

You move, the bullseye follows. The reticle stays put: it has to show where your gun is pointing. The bullseye floats around the reticle in response to your movements. For instance, if you jet straight up, the bullseye will sink. If you turn around, the bullseye will shoot off in the opposite direction. When you stop moving, it comes to rest over the reticle. Think of it as showing a history of where your gun has pointed. That's an oversimplification, but I think it'll help you visualize this working in Legions.

It doesn't actually show a history, though. If you move really smoothly, it will happen to do that, also. What it's actually doing is running the numbers on how your movement and orientation will effect the flight path of a bullet. It displays the point in space where it thinks your bullet will be five seconds into its flight or 1000 yards downrange or whatever you set it up to do.

If you are doing a fly by over the flag base on, say, Zenith Cauldron and there is an enemy standing by the ammo box just as you are directly over the flag base, you'll have to aim back a bit from him. Try to get this geometry visualized: you are directly over the flag base, moving 90 m/s towards the back of the base. Directly to your right by the ammo box is an enemy. He's standing still. You rotate ninety degrees to the right to face him. If you put the reticle on his face, you'll miss. The shots will land to the left of him (his right). To compensate, you rotate a little further and shoot to the right of him (his left). Without LCOS, how far to the right you need to aim is all about guesswork and practice. With it, you'd have a bullseye that hovered to the left of your reticle and probably a little above if you're dropping. If you place that bullseye over your target and your CG is cold, you are guaranteed at least one hit (which is why I wouldn't want this for RL or GL).

 

[Chickenhawk]

Ok, I get it now. I choose to not have an opinion though.

 

[Bane]

For those of you whose wondering, the speed your currently going affects your cooldown and overheat.
"Your chaingun doesn't overheat if you go fast enough. The idea being that the wind speed cools down the gun. Less heat means tighter cone of fire." - graydoubt (quote taken from this video)

 

[Redvan]

Here's a little advice from someone in the know: Fighter Jets.

That is all.

they're adding fighter jets? Oh boy, you're all screwed.

 

[Daphinicus]

I hope I don't sound like a horrible person.

You do. But that's okay. It's the Internet. Nobody expects anything different.

 

[Mabeline]

The idea of having an indicator that would help people aim more accurately is ridiculous.

Yeah, reticles are pretty ridiculous.

 

[Aki]

Most people I've talked to on IA forums back in the day or in-game agree that CG is pretty hard to score with. That goes for noobs and pros alike. I remember there being a small number of players who would use CG almost exclusively and they used to piss everyone off 'cause they would get MAs before the RL-using players could even take aim. If I'm not mistaken, MA combat is supposed to be the CG's bread and butter. But no one uses it. Even now with OD, everyone relies on RL for mid-air combat because the CG is such a pain in the ass to use. An extra indicator would reinstate the CG as the MA weapon of choice.

For those of us who used to use the CG more than anything, that became excessively difficult after the patch where players were no longer red or blue. I still can't say for sure if the CG got nerfed or if I got rusty and haven't relearned since, but I can say that I saw much less CG action after the patch than before. Since OD launched, the only time I see people using CG is if they know their target is too far away for a RL hit or moving too fast. I still hardly ever see successful hits. It's actually worse than it was before IA killed us.

 

[Roach]

Most people before it got nerfed used the chain spread to aim, I found it pretty effective if you line your reticle where ever you think the capper or person will be next, keeping speed and distance in mind.

What a concept!

Most of the time if I keep hitting, I'll continue to fire but If I'm not hitting, I'll switch to the rocket launcher to ground pound them. In my own opinion, I think it's purpose is a weapon that damages the opponent without taking much skill. If you low on jets and know you can't MA, just spray your chaingun and you'll atleast damage him a little. I don't think it's meant to completely own someone in seconds, just an alternative to mid airing someone if you cannot MA and they have lots of jets.

Because switching to splash weaponry when you can't use non-splash weaponry effectively is the DEFINITION of skill.