clusters knock back or boost anomoly

[jedics (ovo)]

been using clusters in the raider class as it is like the old GLS spec back in the day. Im interested in it for chasing so its knock back can boost me and Ive noticed that the level of damage often doesnt add up to the level of boost it gives, sometimes it can take 1/4 of my health and provide no boost what so ever.

Personaly Id like to see its boost increased a little (especially seeing it does much less damage now eg. normal nade strength) but definately how the physics work with the knock back damage relationship needs tweeking. eg if a boost takes half my health then I want to get launched across the map

Its almost feels like the old days with this class back

 

[Immanent]

I don't see a point in this because you rockets and a boost nade, but if you are talking about skiing over cluster mines and detonating them... Well It takes too much time to set up.

 

[NightHawk043]

Well part of the reason it could do lots of damage and have little boost is that it Is a multitude of explosions. Maybe you're timing it slightly wrong and some of the explosions are hitting the front of you, so it cancels out a little?

I don't see a point in this because you rockets and a boost nade, but if you are talking about skiing over cluster mines and detonating them... Well It takes too much time to set up.

in what way does it take too long?

you ski down a hill, shoot a shot somewhere on the hill in front, as you pass over you detonate.
How does that take ages?

 

[Immanent]

It takes more planning and more calculations. You have to plan your route according to the cluster, so if you mis shoot, there goes your route. Also, with rocket jumping, you can kind of modify the amount of damage done/lift/speed by how you shoot it, not much varaitions with clusters there.

Edit: A good cluster jump should take away more than half health and shoot boost you from 90to170. Impractical for small maps.

 

[DeadGuy]

Cluster has a huge boost but due to how the cluster bomblets spread out on detonation, the directions they all push you conflict. Thus, it's inefficient compared to combos or plasma jumping.

 

[Immanent]

Cluster has a huge boost but due to how the cluster bomblets spread out on detonation, the directions they all push you conflict. Thus, it's inefficient compared to combos or plasma jumping.

Paraphrasing: Rj/combo jump/plasma jump has more control over cluster jump. Cluster jump has more speed, but less height as well unless doing so on a ramp.

 

[Gheist]

[...] Cluster jump has more speed, but less height [...]

How would that work?

 

[Fissurez]

How would that work?

Cluster has a huge boost but due to how the cluster bomblets spread out on detonation, the directions they all push you conflict. Thus, it's inefficient compared to combos or plasma jumping.

 

[Gheist]

I know that very well, 7 Fissurez, this has nothing to do with my question though. I'm still wondering what Immanent is talking about. More speed but less height? Horizontal and vertical speed are affected by an explosion's impulse in exactly the same way. So, what is it that you want to say? In the end, your whole paraphrasation has nothing to do with DeadGuy's post.

 

[NightHawk043]

To simplify the problem for Immanent and 7 Fissurez, I'll reduce it to a one dimensional problem. (i.e. forwards and backwards). imagine you are this "o".
Now you fire the cluster behind you. the trouble is when you detonate the cluster. those flames move in both directions. Some, end up in front of you, some behind.
as a result. you end up with --o- where - are the flames. Now, you can see that I made it slightly unbalanced. this is because chances are you'll be smart and not be standing on the cluster, so more will be behind you than in front. However, every one of the - push you the same amount. 2 push you forward, one back. Therefore out of the 3 listed, you're only pushed forward by the force of 1. However, All 3 of them do damage, so it's a damage of 3.
This can be expanded out into 3 dimensions easily, and the end result is, you can push yourself forwards, however, considering you'll get a small net boost, but a Big net damage, it's better to use rocket (big boost, big damage), plasma (small boost per shot, small damage per shot), or combo(v.big boost, v.big damage).

Now, did I make that simpler, or more complicated?

 

[Immanent]

Now you fire the cluster behind you. the trouble is when you detonate the cluster. those flames move in both directions. Some, end up in front of you, some behind.

This wasn't much of a problem for me with the old clusters on Sentinels to be honest. It seems to me that the current clusters that are on the public test servers except Illinois, explode violently and shoot off in far directions away from the center. This is probably the root cause of your issue you have described. And the old clusters did not have this issue, because the bomblettes were evenly released. So what I'm trying to say is:

Cluster has a huge boost but due to how the cluster bomblets spread out on detonation (irregularly, which is the root cause of the anomolous boosting and cancelation off thrust), the directions they all push you conflict..

I think that the only way for this problem to be fixed, is to make the release of the bomblettes more defined and regular (conic shape) or inverted conic shape when placed as a mine. The other solution would be reduced the damage done, but that would totally defeat the purpose of my other thread I posted... You will just find that there are more/less efficient methods to boost yourself, and this may not be one of them. Personally, I accept this fact, and use it for kicks and thrills, but never for competitive situations, because it takes too long for ME to set up properly, and I'd rather use a Rocket Jump/Combo boost in lieu because it allows for more control in critical times.

Now, did I make that simpler, or more complicated?

Izz good.

 

[phanakapan]

ive been trying out cluster chasing again and it is still a larger boost that both the new boost nades and regular rocket jumping, but takes more health. from a standstill it is definitely the most burst speed you can get at the moment, and you will still be able to boost combo jump after as well with the raider. used correctly you can go from 0 to 200 very quickly.