Bolt Idea

[AFireInAsa]

I think a new weapon would be best with new trails and stuff..

One with the old constant acceleration of RLII without having to hold it down and also the increasing damage the faster(further) it goes.

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Also see pilot , kryst , envy for insane chain bolt MAs .. even scootaloo too.

I wouldn't mind seeing a "direct hit" version of the rocket that's in between the bolt and rocket launcher in terms of speed. Smaller splash damage than RL and the same inheritance.

 

[asdfghaaaaMUK]

ew inheritance

 

[Krakyn]

I agree with fire I think that would be pretty interesting to have a direct hit bolt launcher.

 

[Maxter]

Heavies would probably be even more useless with core deactivation from the bolt. It's incredibly easy to hit them with one.

Just as it is incredibly easy to EMP them, incredibly easy to grenade launcher MA them 3 to 4 times in a row, and incredibly easy to keep them pinned to the ground by spamming plasma on their heads. Heavies have always been taking a hit everytime a new weapon or core shows up, either that weapon or core can be used to even more easily take them out, or it just doesn't help them at all. The only exceptions are the Plasma and the Blaster Rifle(you could deal damage a lot faster by just switching to any other weapon in the game when dealing with Sentinels). I have yet to see one instance where something has been modified to fit the needs of a heavy or a Raider.

Regen is a good example, I have, for quite a while posted in these threads asking for a change in the way it regens health to each class. A 35 point regeneration is considerable for an Outrider because it's health is 75, but the same 35 points is near useless to a heavy as it has 200 points of health. The reason why almost no weapons/cores have been modified to fit the needs of Raiders and Sentinels is that this game has always been Outrider oriented. Don't even bother trying to tell me I'm wrong, go and see what class people play these days in any game.

Outrider LD, Outrider LO, Outrider Stay-D, Outrider Capper. Almost every position out there is now better played with this one class as it brings out the most efficiency out of any core or weapon. This "trend" started ever since the boost and the frag grenades were introduced and people started seeing the greater mobility advantage Outrider acquired. From that point on, it only got better for them. So now, almost everything is balanced around this one class while the other two slowly but steadily bite the dust every update. Heck, Blaster Rifle got nerfed because it was too easy to kill Outriders with it since they have the lowest health.

I don't mean any disrespect to the devs, but you are only contradicting yourselves by creating new weapons and cores which almost always uplift the capacity of only the Outriders while advising new players or stubborn "single-loadout" players to adapt to new gameplay styles. We are now at a point where we encourage new people to play the game, but with an Outrider(Fire's tutorial to Legions for Tribes vets is a good example). Even if they do try the other two classes on their own, they will quickly realize that they can in no way be as efficient as when they were using Outrider.

 

[Xtreme]

Bolt is not only fun but quite easy to use and be effective, even for long range hits. Given the nature of this weapon, I think dmg and rof is more or less balanced atm but would be interesting to see your idea in practice

Not to go very off topic but:

Completely agree, but I do believe overall, CG needs a nerf in terms of damage per round to allow any other weapons (particularly bolt) to be viable. In terms of gameplay, I've heard that many people find skybolt fun (As do I) but still use CG simply because it is more effective.

I said it before and I will say it again, if you are taking a lot of dmg with cg it is not by chance. Truth is I would like to see cg reverted to it's old IA dmg (7 pts per bullet?) and rof reduced by 20-30%. This way dueling with cg becomes a bit less of 'spray and pray' and other weapons become more viable.

We are now at a point where we encourage new people to play the game, but with an Outrider(Fire's tutorial to Legions for Tribes vets is a good example).

To be fair, it's probably the easiest way to make the transition from t:a to legions

[...]they can in no way be as efficient as when they were using Outrider.

It's naive to say something absolute like that. It's possible to do everything light class can do with medium, if not better. Don't take everything you see as the prime example of how to play this game. Just because the majority are using light in combination with one of the new cores, does not mean it's right or that heavy is suddenly obsolete.

 

[Maxter]

It's naive to say something absolute like that. It's possible to do everything light class can do with medium, if not better. Don't take everything you see as the prime example of how to play this game. Just because the majority are using light in combination with one of the new cores, does not mean it's right or that heavy is suddenly obsolete.

I'm not being naive when I say that, it's a fact. I say it from experience, from both playing and observing the game and the changes done to it over the years. There has and always been only one advantage for the heavier classes in this game, and that is extra points in health, but nothing more. Outrider, on the other hand carried 3 class advantages including greater acceleration, greater maneuverability, and most importantly, smaller hitbox(Did you know that the Raider and the Sentinel share the same hitbox? Meaning in theory, a Raider is just as easy to hit as a Sentinel. It's funny cause Raider was supposed to be medium armour, yet he's as big as a Sentinel.).

Back then, when the game was "simpler", without the grenades, cores and some of the weapons we see today, classes were quite close to how they would perform compared to each other. With the addition of Boost grenade, new possibilities opened up for Outrider. Raider only got a slight increase in speed with the boost as it's "heavier", whereas Sentinel acquired nothing new.

Now add the newly introduced cores like Shield and boost, and now movement-wise the Outrider's ability to get from point A to point B has gone up tremendously, whereas Raider gets a smaller boost from the two cores(did you know that a Raider takes 21% to boost from 0-80 with the Boost core whereas an Outrider also takes 21% but boosts from 0-100? Why should Raider take the same amount of damage but get less out of it?). Sentinel, again, gets nothing out of it. Don't include the Shield core's advantage of damage reduction here, it's a trait shared by all three classes.

Anyway, my point is, with every new update if the Raider and the Sentinel gets say 1 more thing to do, Outrider gets 2. The same old "they got more armour" reasoning doesn't work anymore. The armour people always speak of is nothing but an added 25 points of health in return for all the other disadvantages I mentioned above. So if you think a Raider can do everything an Outrider can, or that they can do something even better, you're the naive one Xtreme.

 

[loc]

Probably deserves its own thread but to keep rollin with Maxter on this I'd like to agree and say that it is sad to see Sentinel basically disappearing from this game, hell only the og's from back in the day still play it or those that realize no one plays it anymore and thinks "Hey Ima give it a go" since no one plays it anymore.
The Sentinel needs to be feared,needs to be in the back of a cappers mind at all times. Lets face it,it's way too easy to get the flags out these days. There are too many other options nowadays to chase a capper than to worry about sacrificing someone to be a Hof,unless the Hof becomes something people want to play. I think it needs to be heavier on the flag,harder to push around,maybe try giving it the mobility of an outrider for lets say 2 seconds after using the iod for better re-positioning as to get back to the flag stand or to gain better ground for a shot on an outbound capper.
Something has to be done, not only to have the Sentinel stick around and have a rebound in players using it, but also to bring back teamwork and strategies that have been missing for quite some time now.

 

[Fixious]

Sents are used...in PUGs at least. But only as HoFs. I don't see HO being a thing until it gets an appropriate weapon or mortar buff (or reason). Perhaps EMPs shouldn't disable iOD? Think of EMPS as only disabling Cores, while iOD is a built-in and protected function of Sentinels. There were also whispers of a new function for Sents that sounded like the Crater ability in Firefall, but I may have misinterpreted it. For the time being I think any attempt at bringing back Sentinels should focus on the defensive side of things, since HO isn't really a position Legions needs (no bases to rape, no assets to destroy).

 

[Xtreme]

Outrider, on the other hand carried 3 class advantages including greater acceleration, greater maneuverability, and most importantly, smaller hitbox(Did you know that the Raider and the Sentinel share the same hitbox? Meaning in theory, a Raider is just as easy to hit as a Sentinel. It's funny cause Raider was supposed to be medium armour, yet he's as big as a Sentinel.).

Those are not 3 advantages, they are just part of 'movement' which (by common sense) light class should have more of. Also you forgot one of the most amazing and perfectly balanced features in this game, iOD! I agree with you 100% though scales & physics are broke, I always wished they would redesign them...

Raider only got a slight increase in speed with the boost as it's "heavier", whereas Sentinel acquired nothing new.

I try to avoid using gren jumps but I'm quite sure medium also looses less health compared to lights.

Now add the newly introduced cores like Shield and boost, and now movement-wise the Outrider's ability to get from point A to point B has gone up tremendously, whereas Raider gets a smaller boost from the two cores(did you know that a Raider takes 21% to boost from 0-80 with the Boost core whereas an Outrider also takes 21% but boosts from 0-100? Why should Raider take the same amount of damage but get less out of it?). Sentinel, again, gets nothing out of it. Don't include the Shield core's advantage of damage reduction here, it's a trait shared by all three classes.

I didn't test it myself but I would expect that cores operate on the basis of percentage rather than absolute value used across all classes. I remember somewhere poponfu said that shield was changed from 50% to 20% so maybe it's just the case for boost core

So if you think a Raider can do everything an Outrider can, or that they can do something even better, you're the naive one Xtreme.

yep you sure put me in my place! Maybe it's not clear because you are not lucky to play with 50 ping, but medium can outduel and outchase light in the hands of the right player (see .fi, in7 etc)

 

[Maxter]

yep you sure put me in my place! Maybe it's not clear because you are not lucky to play with 50 ping, but medium can outduel and outchase light in the hands of the right player (see .fi, in7 etc)

I want to see you chase down someone like Jicker with a Raider, Xtreme. Or atleast just observe how chasing Vs capping is right now in American PUGs. By the way, not all cores operate percentage wise, I have tested that.

Sents are used...in PUGs at least. But only as HoFs. I don't see HO being a thing until it gets an appropriate weapon or mortar buff (or reason). Perhaps EMPs shouldn't disable iOD? Think of EMPS as only disabling Cores, while iOD is a built-in and protected function of Sentinels. There were also whispers of a new function for Sents that sounded like the Crater ability in Firefall, but I may have misinterpreted it. For the time being I think any attempt at bringing back Sentinels should focus on the defensive side of things, since HO isn't really a position Legions needs (no bases to rape, no assets to destroy).

Not so easy, properly implementing that. One thing I will say is that iOD is the backbone of Sentinel movement. If what you imply is for Sentinel to have the ability of carrying a core along with iOD, I think that'll make him too OP. BUT, if we leave the EMP spammage on the heavy the way it is, and allow for Sentinel to carry an extra core, while having iOD immune to the effects of EMP, then maybe we'll hit a middle ground in terms of balance.

Right now, something that may be used as a temporary solution to HoF's current immense disadvantage is to remove the energy reduction function of the iOD. Basically the heavy won't lose all of it's energy after Overdrive. Also, instead of a core like Dodge, maybe iOD could have the property of absorbing 50% damage during use.

 

[Pilotkiwii]

Oh, and some numbers, correct me if I'm wrong. Up to 30% on Outrider is what, 56%? It does about 26% now, 30% more would be more than half health, I'm just really scared of bolt snipes. REALLY REALLY SCARED.

I didn't mean add the 30% to OR onto the current damage, I was saying 30% max from it's now around 22% on ORs.

 

[Poponfu]

I didn't test it myself but I would expect that cores operate on the basis of percentage rather than absolute value used across all classes. I remember somewhere poponfu said that shield was changed from 50% to 20% so maybe it's just the case for boost core

That's for self damage only. Mostly because of super boosting with shield for little health cost before.