Another one of my messages to the devs

[Propkid]

This one is more of a discussion opening.
I mean what do you expect me to do without a working gaming PC?

At one point a dev, Daph I think, told me that 'Legions is and always will be a CTF- centered game. That came up, as far as I remember, during a discussion regarding LR's balance with other guns. My point was that LR is balanced in CTF, but as there'll be new game modes introduced the LR will need to be revamped.

Daph's answer made me think a lot. It also made me try the new LR and had me stick with it instead of the CG pretty much up until now. I also started playing in PUGs and pretty much stopped taking part in PUBs. I just didn't feel like PUBs anymore. Of course, once in a while I logged in to have a fight with MariQo or to school a newblood, but I no longer wanted to take part in unorganized CTF matches. They simply didn't work.

Then I came to think about how will this work out in the future. When Daph said that Legions will always be a CTF centered game he, in a way, showed the developer teams' approach to how should Legions develop (ugh). A CTF centered game that will, slowly but steadily, grow in popularity. hopyfully

The thing that bugs me about this 'plan' is that it relies too heavily on the assumption that as the L:O playerbase grows it will be able to organize proper CTF matches (proper meaning w/o bunnying, hunting, llamaing, TKing, duelling, cap stealing and w/ proper team structure, team play). For the game to succeed and become more popular the PUBs must get better, not the PUGs. Nowadays, quite sadly, if you look at any successful multiplayer team game you'll notice that the quality of each (whatnot) public match doesn't rely on the integrity of the team as a whole (but on the amount of *dancetards* present in the match).

IMO CTF should definitely be there at the Legions organized end, at the Legions 'end-game' as they call it in MMOs. The PUB part of L:O shouldn't rely on flag-play but on frag-play.

You can't develop the game hoping that the community will turn out (at least) nice.

Hope it's all clear....

 

[Daphinicus]

Remember that just because MMOs ultimately balance their content for endgame players, they still put a lot of effort into everything that leads up to that endgame. In the Legions world, PUG and scrim/competetive CTF matches are the endgame, and we want to make sure we've got that right and everything's well-balanced for that. But that doesn't exclude other gametypes (which we are working on).

But I do hear ya; CTF can get old, especially in PUBs. Oh, how Daffy desperately craves TDM and Duel! [/Seymour]

 

[Propkid]

Though I used an MMO term I didn't really mean to compare L:O to an MMO, although here is where I admit my logic can go wrong. In an MMO a large part of the playerbase gets to the organized endgame. In 'modern' FPSs the majority of the playerbase spends all their days hooking up to public matches and never trying the organized mix games/ clan tournaments. Yes, there are a lot of clans out there but believe me- I've been to all CoDs and there are only a few clans that actually play organized matches.

My assumption with L:O is that it'll follow the path of a modern FPS, hence it rather shouldn't be CTF- centered.

 

[Mabeline]

My assumption with L:O is that it'll follow the path of a modern FPS, hence it rather shouldn't be CTF- centered.

Due to bad decisions early on it's pretty much impossible to balance the game for fighting and CTF at the same time, and CTF will always take priority as it is (and always will be) the primary gametype.

 

[Propkid]

Due to bad decisions early on it's pretty much impossible to balance the game for fighting and CTF at the same time, and CTF will always take priority as it is (and always will be) the primary gametype.

Well -ugh- that's what I'm in a way trying to argue against.

 

[Daphinicus]

The problem is that the levels of gameplay balance required in the dedicated, team-oriented, strategic environment of CTF is a great deal sharper than what's necessary in a deathmatch setting. Not only do weapons, maps, and armor classes all have to be balanced against each-other in CTF; they have to be balanced to specific roles, too.

Tuning for CTF will result in a fairly palatable DM experience that encourages the sort of gameplay skills necessary in CTF, and CTF is arguably the heart of the FPS+Z subgenre. Tuning for DM, on the other hand, would result in unpalatable gameplay problems in CTF.

Put another way, PUB DM games can stand to be a little iffy, because it's not highly competitive and the differences in skill level between players are much greater. Highly competetive CTF matches, on the other hand, can't stand to be that iffy, because it'll affect the outcome of the game too much.

Put yet another way: We balance for the players it affects the most. It ain't a foolproof way to do it, but it's as fair an option game developers can think of.

 

[Mabeline]

Well -ugh- that's what I'm in a way trying to argue against.

We can spend time making CTF more pub-friendly but we can't really change the focus to another gametype. The physics are incredibly rigid and the game really can't be balanced for more than just CTF. That's just the way it is, but we are certainly thinking about public games when we work on new features.