Why do rockets drift incosistently?

[Homingun]

I've always had this question and would like to know a straight answer.

Rockets currently retain 100% of the velocity in the direction they are fired. They also gain 25% of the velocity perpendicular to the direction fired. Though most people won't notice this and might feel that it doesn't make a difference, it has affected me on many occasions (mainly during chasing).

I don't mind the 100% percent forward velocity gain since the rocket will still hit where you have aimed. The thing that bothers me the most is the 25% perpendicular velocity gain. Depending on what angle you fire relative to your velocity, the rocket will have varying amounts of drift. Hence, it won't hit where you want it to hit, and makes high velocity shots harder than they need to be.

The whole "it adds a layer of skill" argument is BS considering that the drift is not consistent enough to get used to (unless someone can do trig on the fly while chasing). I would just like to know if there is any legitimate reason other than "that's just the way it is".

A solution is to keep the 100% forward velocity gain, and change the perpendicular velocity gain to 0%. I do realize that this might seem trivial, but what is there to lose in fixing it?

 

[anak]

this is why the playerbase shouldn't get the science.

 

[Daphinicus]

I'll be honest, I thought it was SUPPOSED to be 100% forward velocity, plus whatever the player's velocity is, in whatever direction he or she is going. Thus, if you're flying to the left, and you fire, your rocket's inertia will send it flying to the left.

Then again, that might feel really stupid.

What I don't like the idea of is completely removing the velocity gain from the player. One of the core components of the RL's feel is its drift; if that drift isn't quite right, I'd rather think about ways to correct it than nullify it completely.

 

[Homingun]

this is why the playerbase shouldn't get the science.

That fixes everything.

I'll be honest, I thought it was SUPPOSED to be 100% forward velocity, plus whatever the player's velocity is, in whatever direction he or she is going. Thus, if you're flying to the left, and you fire, your rocket's inertia will send it flying to the left.

Then again, that might feel really stupid.

What I don't like the idea of is completely removing the velocity gain from the player. One of the core components of the RL's feel is its drift; if that drift isn't quite right, I'd rather think about ways to correct it than nullify it completely.

You would be describing the disk launcher from the tribes series. If I remember correctly, it took inertia from all directions equally. The current RL doesn't. This was what I was explaining in the thread.

As I had stated earlier, I don't have an issue with it gaining 100% forward velocity (keep in mind that forward is not the direction you're moving but the direction you are pointing) since it will hit the spot that I point at. I just want whatever drift gain to be consistent so I know where my rocket will hit at high speeds (the grenade take 100% drift in all directions so aiming it just a matter of adding your velocity to that of the grenade).

I just wanted to bring up a question I had. I don't want to argue about why it should be changed or whatever.

 

[Mabeline]

Your brain is better at trigonometry than you think. Try flying at multiple angles and hitting a single spot on a building, it's not that hard.

 

[Homingun]

Your brain is better at trigonometry than you think. Try flying at multiple angles and hitting a single spot on a building, it's not that hard.

Still doesn't answer the question about why the rockets act the way they do.

As I previously said, it is most apparent at high speeds and medium to long range.

 

[Siantlark]

Your brain is better at trigonometry than you think. Try flying at multiple angles and hitting a single spot on a building, it's not that hard.

My brain must be really dumb at math then...

 

[anak]

answer the question about why the rockets act the way they do.

physics. thats why. elementary physics.

As I previously said, it is most apparent at high speeds and medium to long range.

elementary trig? come @ me

 

[Immanent]

Stop asking questions! They're gonna silence you!

 

[Astrum]

I've always had this question and would like to know a straight answer.

Rockets currently retain 100% of the velocity in the direction they are fired. They also gain 25% of the velocity perpendicular to the direction fired.

It's scaled by .25, a 25% gain would be 125%. Also it doesn't "drift" inconsistently, it happens the same under the same conditions.

 

[fatboy]

Mabe, flying at multiple angles and hitting something is way different than doing the same and firing a projectile with a whole new set of properties.

 

[Jordahan]

The whole "it adds a layer of skill"

This^

 

[Homingun]

It's scaled by .25, a 25% gain would be 125%. Also it doesn't "drift" inconsistently, it happens the same under the same conditions.

By consistency, I was referring to firing the same rocket at different angles. Of course, a physics engine is set to emulate the same result under the same conditions. But how often do you actually get the same exact conditions?

Here is an example, (I am going to leave the vertical dimension out of this considering it would just make the math too complicated and would not add anything substantial to the problem):

The last I checked, the rocket has a minimum speed of of 205m/s.

If I am chasing a capper at 100 m/s and fire a rocket at him/her from right behind them, the rocket will have a (100+205) 305 m/s forward velocity and hit exactly where I point.

Now, If I'm cutting off a capper at 100m/s and have to fire a rocket at 45 degrees to my current velocity, the rocket would have ((cos(45)x100) + 205) ~ 276 m/s forward velocity and a ((sin(45)x100)x.25) ~ 18m/s sideways drift. So, if this rocket needed to travel for 1 second (quite small considering the sentinel is over 4 meters tall), It would be ~18m (out of even splash radius) off where I had pointed.

An even more extreme case would be if I was side my side by a capper and had to fire a rocket at 90 degrees to my current velocity. The rocket would have a 205 m/s forward velocity and a (100x.25) 25m/s sideways drift. This is getting silly.

Now, this gets even more wonky when firing at higher than 90 degrees like in instances where chasers have overtake a capper and have to fire backwards. Remember when I said the rockets have a minimum of 205m/s. Well, that will come into affect and make the sideways drift even more inconsistent. That is a bit more complicated math that I don't have time for right now.

Also, keep in mind that most chasers chase at far higher speeds than 100m/s. The main fact here is that not only do you have to lead the target properly when shooting at high speeds, but you also have to take into account the inconsistent rocket drift when firing at different angles.

Anyway, I think I've made my point, do whatever you guys want.

Edit:

physics. thats why. elementary physics.

FYI, elementary physics states that a projectile will gain all inertia of the the object firing the projectile just like the current grenade does.

 

[DeadGuy]

I find the majority of games to use an inherited velocity %, so intuitively coming from other games I expect it. I had played with it at 0% in the distant past but all of our testers became less accurate. That probably was due to how much they were used to the inherited velocity, but at the end of the day we opted to keep it at the original 25%.
I will however re-examine it for you, but give me some time as there are many other things with priority that we need to test and fix first. Also something like this requires us to gather a large group of people to accurately judge.

 

[OmniNept]

I've always been impressed by the amount of information a quick mind can process; in video games, or otherwise. Don't make the mistake of assuming impossibility, or of imposing your limitations on others.

 

[sugardemon]

I don't think he's really complaining that it doesn't work, or that he can't do it (he seems capable enough when he rockets me off the stand). It feels like hes asking why the decision was made to set the inheritance at that value (as opposed to 100% 'real world' equivalent). I think we can all get used to any value with enough practice, the question seems to be is there an engine/coding/performance issue, a gameplay/exploit problem, or just plain arbitrary?

 

[Mabeline]

I don't think he's really complaining that it doesn't work, or that he can't do it (he seems capable enough when he rockets me off the stand). It feels like hes asking why the decision was made to set the inheritance at that value (as opposed to 100% 'real world' equivalent). I think we can all get used to any value with enough practice, the question seems to be is there an engine/coding/performance issue, a gameplay/exploit problem, or just plain arbitrary?

Which begs the question, are you seriously asking us to justify a decision made by the original development team at least three (!) years ago? There are a lot of things that just are the way they are. Nobody has the time to spend digging through the thousands of variables that were just given to us when we started working on the game trying to justify every single one of them for you guys.

 

[OmniNept]

I don't think he's really complaining that it doesn't work, or that he can't do it (he seems capable enough when he rockets me off the stand). It feels like hes asking why the decision was made to set the inheritance at that value (as opposed to 100% 'real world' equivalent). I think we can all get used to any value with enough practice, the question seems to be is there an engine/coding/performance issue, a gameplay/exploit problem, or just plain arbitrary?

I'd agree were it not for this wonderful bit of poisoning the well and defeatism: "The whole "it adds a layer of skill" argument is BS considering that the drift is not consistent enough to get used to (unless someone can do trig on the fly while chasing)."

To my recollection, noone besides spartan has had this issue; and certainly there are players able to adjust to this "inconsistent drift". Suppose I should also point out that the "drift" is consistent, set at "25% perpendicular velocity gain". "Inconsistent" implies a randomly changing value.

 

[Homingun]

Which begs the question, are you seriously asking us to justify a decision made by the original development team at least three (!) years ago? There are a lot of things that just are the way they are. Nobody has the time to spend digging through the thousands of variables that were just given to us when we started working on the game trying to justify every single one of them for you guys.

No, I'm just asking you to look at the variables that negatively affect the game as it is now. If you do not have the time or don't care about these issues, I question why any of us should give feedback at all.

 

[Mabeline]

No, I'm just asking you to look at the variables that negatively affect the game as it is now. If you do not have the time or don't care about these issues, I question why any of us should give feedback at all.

Can you hit chaingun at the angles you're concerned about? Because the chaingun travels 5x faster than the rocket and has 0 sideways velocity inheritance.