Rant: Fine line or no line between LO and Camping

[Synista]

No solution = Wild Immanent hunting down each and every camper Immanent plays with repeatedly.

You'll just cost your team the pub match.

Tking? Perhaps.
Way to solve the problem? Most definitely.

That's a BAN-able offense, wouldn't recommened doing it

Oh yes, I truly am sorry that Euros are missing out this experience.

I used to do this alot, especially in niv and frostbyte, cluster the bowl, make people angry, but my team is winning because their offense can't escape the base half the time. We're not missing out on anything

Next time, I WILL film this such camper, and I WILL post it publicly.

Nothing will come of it though, I think.

 

[Immanent]

1) who cares about winning, after all it's just a pub...
2) yes I am aware that tking is a ban able offense, but I really try to keep my cool in order from doing that.
3) I do re-iterate what Mabeline has pointed out. Bowlpartying (what you have described here) does NOT mean camping. When you camp, you are staying in the enemy's base, hiding in a strategical location. The base is where you spawn (duh) thus affecting everybody (unless you are Mabel, which for the record had a 61-0 KD ratio). Bowlpartying affects cappers and LO from leaving the base, but can be easily bypassed, camping not so much.
4) the primary purpose is to show others what kind of *chocolate cookies* we have to put up with, as well to expose that smurf (if you are reading this you are being watched by devs)

people might actually learn how to chain from my next upcoming video...

Immanent

 

[SeymourGore]

Oh yeah, that's not bannable, it kinda sounded like you were describing the LO's role. In fact, depending on the type of griefing against this player that you hinted at, you may find yourself at the end of the banhammer. I'm kinda surprised that you feel that such a talented player 'camping' is more harmful to your small community than a group of vigilante players that are willing to team kill this individual just to limit his LO effectiveness.

Anyhow, while it's understandable that a highly skilled player's lifespan as a LO could be quite long, the game is still in a barebones state. Perhaps as more assets are introduced, the lifespan for LO's will be reduced (unless they work as a team with their respective offense).

I think Mabel's post explains it best:

LO is not camping. Bowlparty isn't spawn camping. It's all just harassment. A defense of an equal skill level will completely shut down an LO, you are merely experiencing a skill level mismatch.

And GReaper describes an excellent strategy for dealing with higher skilled LO:

If you've got superior skill, duel the player and kill him quickly. Even if you lose one of these encounters, if you can respawn and get to the player quickly enough the chances are you can get back to finish him and you'll be at an advantage with health. If you can't do this alone, ask another player to help you. If you can do this several times and kill the camper without giving him an opportunity to kill anyone else - chances are he'll get bored when he can't kill anyone else.

 

[Immanent]

No, no teamkilling is out of the picture. I only meant to say that it was a last resort to attract their attention. What I did mean was I would team up to kill the LO (Not tk!).

 

[SeymourGore]

Then go get him, Tiger!

 

[Mahidhar]

The reason you are being tormented by this particular person, is probably because
1) He/She's a better dueler.
2) Your team's got no Base D

As far as my team goes, we got Base D to handle LO/Ninjas. The Base D never leaves the base, and his/hers highest priority is to clear the base of such enemy filth. If the Base D player is not able to finish off the camper(s), in decent time, the LO, or as you call, campers are going to stack at the base, and start to overwhelm you.

As Carnage defined, campers are simply, players hiding close to your base, and shooting at your team-mates randomly, with no regard to enemy/friendly flag. They do not time distraction, they do not E-grab, they do not return flags. All they do is duel and die. It's actually a loss of a player to the enemy team, if the player exhibits such behavior.

On the other hand, LO-Ninjas also duel. They specifically pick targets, especially HoF and LD, drain them of their health, so they may not have enough health to chase Cappers. They time their distraction, so the Capper may steal and escape without much notice and damage from the enemy defense. This also helps because, by hurting the enemy LD, they have a lesser tendency to catch up with the Capper, or survive after reaching the Capper's base, let alone retrieve. During stand-offs, their role changes to Ninja, for they will hide and regenerate their health, and try and get the HoF and Base D to critical, when they are supposed to receive the flag from their Capper, making it easier for the LO to kill and return the friendly flag. They are also responsible for E-grabbing, at the right time, as they need to confirm, if any of their friendly Cappers are about to steal the enemy flag or not. Otherwise, it would be Llama-grabbing.

Compare the above two paragraphs, and you'll actually know, that LOs and Campers are a lot different. The contribution a Camper makes to his/her team is insignificant, compared to that of an LO.

All you need to do, is to stop and spectate him/her. If he/she's doing atleast half of what I mentioned, an LO would do, and still gets the attention of your team, it's definitely the incompetence of your team, and he/she's a decent LO.

Also, it isn't really that surprising, to hear that it's happening in the Asian servers. So far, rarely have I seen any players who actually stay back, at the enemy base, and help the HoF clear it. Few players have any game awareness, and fewer, flag awareness. Nearly 70% of the Asian community knows bare to nothing, about the different positions a player can take up, and how effective they can be. If you really want to overcome the Light Offense and/or Campers, brief your team about the positions they can take up, and how they can help. Whatever you do, make it count.

Maxter.

 

[Redvan]

The wonderful thing about L:O is, you spawn with everything you need to defeat the LO, or, camper, or whatever you want to call it. Not only that, but you have what, 3 seconds of invulnerability to get to a better position to do so. That's like a lifetime.

So really, if you can't beat a "spawn camper", it's your own fault.

 

[Mabeline]

That argument is invalid. osniping is NOT a tactic. it's just an idiotic method of AIMLESSLY harrassing D and can be done by anybody, because there is no skill requisite, contrary to camping.

Osniping is a totally valid tactic, most people just suck at it.

3) I do re-iterate what Mabeline has pointed out. Bowlpartying (what you have described here) does NOT mean camping. When you camp, you are staying in the enemy's base, hiding in a strategical location. The base is where you spawn (duh) thus affecting everybody (unless you are Mabel, which for the record had a 61-0 KD ratio). Bowlpartying affects cappers and LO from leaving the base, but can be easily bypassed, camping not so much.

Bowlparty has a unique ability to shut down players in much the same way that base rape would in Tribes. It evolved because normal LO was far less disruptive because you just die all the time if you are in a position to really do much damage.

The best LO in the game can not survive hiding in the enemy base, it's just too easy to splash someone to death around corners with your 4 second redeploy time vs their 15-25 second time. You have teammates, they do not. You can't solo LO, you will get rolled. I really stand by my point that there is no such thing as a strategic hiding spot that will save you from base defense that is inside an enemy's base. It is either in front of the base (bowl party), to the side of the stand (sniper harass), or behind the stand (hof harass).

It's very easy to point to a piece of gameplay and blame it for everything bad in the world, I'll just quote this one gem from David Aldridge's presentation on the networking of Halo: Reach:

After a dozen or so tests, and lots of networking improvements, we were still receiving lots perceived lag reports. About half as many as at the start, but still quite a few. We investigated them, and found no networking artifacts. Instead, any player who was killed by surprise, or was unable to easily determine who killed him, would often report this as lag.

and the immortal words of Cave Johnson.

I will gladly give anybody a run for their money on Defense,and hopefully you should be no exception (and yes I have heard about you)

If you talk like that you might just get called out! Btw, it was 71 & 0 w/ 1 cap with me on stay@home vs. Kryst and DarkSiper who were easily the two best non-Mabel LO at the time. This really just underscores my point about defense always being able to shut down LO, the best I ever got on LO in that time period was 75 & 8 and 84 & 11. The only reason I could do that was because people hadn't figured out how to counter what I was doing, nothing more.

I'm going to stand firmly by my skill mismatch statement, there is nothing an LO can do to gain a systematic advantage on a defense, only minor second-to-second ones during a fight, easily neutralized by a second defender.

EDIT:

As Carnage defined, campers are simply, players hiding close to your base, and shooting at your team-mates randomly, with no regard to enemy/friendly flag. They do not time distraction, they do not E-grab, they do not return flags. All they do is duel and die. It's actually a loss of a player to the enemy team, if the player exhibits such behavior.

You almost perfectly described my play style!

 

[Immanent]

@ Mahidar

1) I really hope not, but hey, you can't judge who is better because they may have different playing styles. Mine namely being chain+ma and his/hers being groundpound groundpound.

@ Redvan

3 seconds is absolutely useless if you are In a heavy, or playing on a med-large map. Before you reach the camper, your jets are out and you take heavy damage.

@ Thread

Now I'm changing from a rant to more of what if.
Would deployables really make a difference in Base D and exterminating campers, or is that just aimed at primarily incoming cappers.

Woot I feel like David Cameron taking *chocolate cookies* from Ed Miliband in The Commons

Immanent

 

[Mabeline]

Now I'm changing from a rant to more of what if.
Would deployables really make a difference in Base D and exterminating campers, or is that just aimed at primarily incoming cappers.

I don't think that would ever work. Offense really desperately needs help at this point. With all the game changes defense's ability to Shut Down Everything™ is really prevalent. Assets would serve to improve defense against the goal of the game (which is the flag) and give the offense something real to do against the defense.

Personally I support the "depth-first" style of game design ascribed to by Blizzard and Chris Hecker, I'm not sure what to do about making the game work for the lower levels of play, but I believe that the gameplay depth and the skill ceilings at the highest levels are the most important parts of the game.

 

[Mahidhar]

Immanent, you are my friend, and a respectable player. I consider you to be the top dueler in the Asian community currently, and as much as I've played against you, you're an adept at Mid-Airing, Chain-gunning and Ground-pounding. If that person really is beating you with just one of your abilities, the problem does not lie within him. No offense, as I was just being honest in my opinion.

Off-topic: Nice try, but next time, just copy-paste my name.

 

[DKnight556]

Are campers really a problem? Most of the time in COD the main reason campers are annoying is that they will sit in front of a doorway or stairwell where you can't shoot back but they can hit you. With the openess of the maps on Legions I don't see this as a problem. I might be wrong and if so please tell me where this "camping spot" is. Another thing to stop "campers" is that you can fly and get to any location on the map by almost any direction.

 

[Redvan]

@ Redvan

3 seconds is absolutely useless if you are In a heavy, or playing on a med-large map. Before you reach the camper, your jets are out and you take heavy damage.

Then don't use heavy when trying to clear the base. You're not restricted to it.

 

[Mots0311]

You know what chaps my hide? Camping O snipers that spam insults!!

 

[Homingun]

He's probably referring to pub games where certain players turn a game into team deathmatch. Players on a team who will repeatedly attack LD to kill them whilst their team is probably losing because nobody is grabbing the flag.

Well, when a team of good duelers do this together in pubs...

nomnomnomnomnomnomn

As to the topic of this thread; LO does not need anymore of a disadvantage. They are up against a ~3 sec respawn time and usually have to kill/distract multiple defenders to be effective. The ~3 sec respawn time itself makes it extremely hard to LO. Killed that pesky defender? well he's on ur ass 3 secs later before you can heal up or kill/distract that HoF. I feel that proper LOing has become such an annoyance that many turn to bowl parties and what not to increase their effectiveness.

 

[Mabeline]

[snip]

"Proper LO" was never possible. People who dominated the enemy team never played on the stand, it was just easier for offense to grab with little to no distract. Seriously, the way we played pickups was laughable.

 

[Pure4Pwnge]

LO = OD clears/clearing stand using OD to time it with the cappers.

 

[Immanent]

Immanent, you are my friend, and a respectable player. I consider you to be the top dueler in the Asian community currently, and as much as I've played against you, you're an adept at Mid-Airing, Chain-gunning and Ground-pounding. If that person really is beating you with just one of your abilities, the problem does not lie within him. No offense, as I was just being honest in my opinion.

Off-topic: Nice try, but next time, just copy-paste my name.

Oh hehe flattering, but wait, "just copy-paste my name". You are the camper!? Sigh -.-

 

[Mahidhar]

Sigh indeed. I meant your previous post where you spelled my name wrong. And no, I'm not the camper.

 

[ocarina_boy]

1) who cares about winning, after all it's just a pub...

Come on now, we hardly ever have pugs so I think there needs to be some seriousness in public games. Otherwise it's just going to be shitty. I'm not saying everyone be a drill-sergeant but atleast try to play in a mature manner. It's the best way to be.

Immanent

Ending your comments with your name. Because your worth it.