Flag "fatigue" to prevent rabbiting?

MJ1284

Member
I thought of one method to reduce rabbiting, this oh so joyous aspect of the game that makes CTF fun for everybody:

How about we add a fatigue bar for the flag carrier? It would work like "Stamina" in most other games, when the bar is near empty your character gets winded making it harder/slower to move your character. In Legions this could be implemented by slowing your walk speed & upping energy consuming when "you've run out of breath". Once you toss the flag you'll slowly start regaining your stamina (amount of stamina left affects how quickly you regain rest of your stamina).
Movement would also affect stamina regain rate, if you're standing still you'll start recovering stamina faster whereas if you keep moving (without the flag) you'll regain stamina at slower rate.
Before anyone points out "The flag doesn't weight THAT much!", I'll say "Have they ever determined HOW much flag weights?".

But doesn't this hamper capping? Not if stamina drain starts affecting only if you're "hogging" the flag non-stop too long (let's say.. over 1 minute?). One minute is sufficient time to return from enemy base with flag on any map that is currently availible, EVEN IF YOU LLAMA.
Theoretically one COULD rabbit for little while but ultimately becomes too tired to keep it up in long run, thus making rabbiting somewhat more valid/less cheap tactic than it currently is.
While this could be a minor nuisanse to flag carriers having a little element that forces carriers to pass the flag around teammates surely encourages teamplay aspect of CTF mode, no?

What I'm aiming for? A feature that'll discourage people from rabbiting while doing little as possible to hamper people who "cap properly". Is this the proper way to do it? Maybe, maybe not... that's up to you to decide.
 

Propkid

Member
Too annoying during a stand off/slower caps (they happen when the flag is picked up from the middle on a large map).
Also, this has already been suggested before on the IA forums I think.

IMO rabbiting is not an issue. If a poor player does it then eventually he will get killed, even in a PUB (provided someone is playing CTF on the server). If a good player is doing it... well tell him off cos he shouldn't be doing so. Fatigue would downgrade defence when compared to LO and chase, so I'm against it.
 
IMO rabbiting is not an issue. If a poor player does it then eventually he will get killed, even in a PUB (provided someone is playing CTF on the server). If a good player is doing it... well tell him off cos he shouldn't be doing so. Fatigue would downgrade defence when compared to LO and chase, so I'm against it.

This ^

Vote -1 from me
 

MJ1284

Member
If a good player is doing it... well tell him off cos he shouldn't be doing so.

Yes, because everybody on the planet is such obedient person with sense of fair play that all it takes is saying "naughty naughty!" and giving a good finger waggle at them. Had Poland known this back in 40's, unfortunate events that ignited WWII would never have occured.

True story bro!
 

Dimitryy

Member
like the idea
but you could make it easier: if you hold the flag for 60 sec you die :) if you drop and pick it up again you die. you have to wait atleast 15sec to pick it up again, otherwiese you die
 

Propkid

Member
Yes, because everybody on the planet is such obedient person with sense of fair play that all it takes is saying "naughty naughty!" and giving a good finger waggle at them. Had Poland known this back in 40's, unfortunate events that ignited WWII would never have occured.

True story bro!
I don't know why are you bringing up historical events into this and whether are you relating them to me or to my post, but:

In pretty much all skill-based games that I know of there's a certain 'pattern' developing. The better a player the more engaged with the community he becomes. In Legions this is quite true: skill is being recognized and people are being recruited into teams, clans and PUGs. The good ones also quite often come up on the IRC, forums or at least have in-game friends. IMO there's enough ways to tell a good player off about their rabitting in PUBs and if someone becomes 'conscientious' (I'm sorry, I really don't know a better/simpler word to explain this) with the society they do become obedient to a certain extent.

Honestly, if your Fatigue was PUB only and wouldn't be applied to home-held flags then I'd be OK with it, but I think we both don't believe Torque could pull it off.
 

MJ1284

Member
like the idea
but you could make it easier: if you hold the flag for 60 sec you die :) if you drop and pick it up again you die. you have to wait atleast 15sec to pick it up again, otherwiese you die

Outright killing a player seems bit too extreme, I've been in "couple" Public matches where my loyal team has left me on base to fend off oncoming enemies all by myself... being only "defender" and flag carrier it would be nice to get small breathing room for regenerating sometimes. It's worst on Nivosus & Moonshine where flag carrier is at disadvantage regardless, it's already too easy for offense to refill their health by hiding and prancing around those ledges, denying regenerating for flag carrier makes it nigh impossible to fend off enemies single handedly.

Secondly, your suggestion would make defensive play a complete mess (even on PUGs & other competetive matches) since players tend to pass the flag more frequently on defense, chances are the flag will land on same person atleast twice during one attack wave. Randomly exploding players = unhappy defense.

In Legions this is quite true: skill is being recognized and people are being recruited into teams, clans and PUGs. The good ones also quite often come up on the IRC, forums or at least have in-game friends. IMO there's enough ways to tell a good player off about their rabitting in PUBs and if someone becomes 'conscientious' (I'm sorry, I really don't know a better/simpler word to explain this) with the society they do become obedient to a certain extent.

Honestly, if your Fatigue was PUB only and wouldn't be applied to home-held flags then I'd be OK with it, but I think we both don't believe Torque could pull it off.

There's of course the engine limitations, besides devs nobody knows how much you can stretch Torque.

But hear me out: One minute is definitely enough to execute proper cap route return (even if you screw it up a little) and Fatigue effects won't kick in before you've held the flag for atleast one minute. So you'll be at home base long before you start getting winded.

Now, let's say teams are on stand-off situation. When you're sitting on home base with couple your buddies your fatigue drains at drastically lower rate, allowing you to hold the flag for longer period of time (let's say 3 minutes). You spot few attackers heading your way, you and your buddies fend them off, you take some hits from enemy fire but you survive. At this point you'll probably throw the flag just so you get to regenerate your health, this also iniates your stamina recovery. You wait for couple seconds and presto, you've regained all your health AND stamina!

To make it short: Stamina would encourage you to pass the flag amongst your teammates rather than encouraging you to rabbit far away from your base and regain your health in hidden corner of the map. As most of the experienced players organise their defense so that there's always someone ready to catch your pass this would cause little to no difference in competetive matches.

But on Public games hiding & rabbiting are far more common symptoms caused by lack of Base D which encourages flag carrier to hide rather than stick around the base. If the game doesn't punish you for resorting to such cheap tactics how do you expect players to realize it's scoffed amongst more experienced players?
 

Mabeline

God-Tier
Unintuitive and seemingly arbitrary mechanics crafted for the sole purpose of hindering rabbits are a dime a dozen. While there is no easy solution, something like this seems much more like a mechanic I'd find in a mod server than something integrated into the base game, which is a problem.
 

Dimitryy

Member
the "you die" thing shouldn't be so difficult to add

wasn't there something like this in tribes?
if you havent passed you died :)
 

poiuyt580

Member
What if I was in my base and attempting to fight off attackers with all my other team members attempting to get our flag back? Am I supposed to drop the flag and risk it being returned rather than trying to stay alive + keeping the flag until someone from my team comes back?
 

poiuyt580

Member
What if I was in my base and attempting to fight off attackers with all my other team members attempting to get our flag back? Am I supposed to drop the flag and risk it being returned rather than trying to stay alive + keeping the flag until someone from my team comes back?
if you are alone in your base for one minute?
HOW CAN THIS EVER HAPPEN?
NEVAAR
just think about it
 

Dimitryy

Member
yes, like in every game ...
i never played a game with nobobdy in my base for more than 40 sec (and i can pass to someone even if he is a noob, they have to learn it somehow and can only happen in pubs ... in pugs there will be someone who can catch a flag)

and if all my teammates are at the enemy base they will return the flag within one min or atleast, someone dies and i can pass to him ....

poiuyt580, think about that:
turtle-hamburger.jpg

it got the same point as your argument
 

Application-1

test bester
No this system is just bad imo. If you want to stop rabbiting go chase that person down and kill him (aslong as you are the enemy of course). If not leave him/her be.
 
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