Caps for weapon types

Aki

Aki

Member
I still haven't totally /rage yet, so pardon any ranting.

I was just in the most whoriest game of Legions' history. ZC, I think 14 players, and 6 were sniping. ONE competent sniper is enough to ruin a capper's day, but 4 on a single team??? That is called u83rwhoar.

Hence I formally suggest a cap of 1 LRII or (not both) 2 LR to a team.

While I'm at it, I also suggest that the other high power weap's be evaluated for caps (Surely a team needs no more than two Sent-Defenders).

I won't try to speak for anyone else, but the sniping in this game has always bothered me. I don't usually call LR op'd because I know it is difficult to use. This is an extenuating circumstance. I propose no nerfing on the gun, only a limit on how many there are.
 
Volt Cruelerz

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
If there are four, then there are four that could otherwise be doing other things... That said, what happens if you get two noobs on LR and then some pro sniper comes in. Is he not allowed to use the weapon that he's clearly worked quite hard to master?
 
Aki

Aki

Member
Apparently, yes.

I don't mind ONE good sniper. I even appreciate the challenge to me as I play LO. One good sniper plus two new ones is too much, though, especially when you add in all the other defenders.

Class caps are a fact of life for a lot of games and their players get along just fine (excepting the occasional griefer). And guess which class is the most commonly capped? Gold star for you if you said sniper.

As for this:
Volt Cruelerz said:
If there are four, then there are four that could otherwise be doing other things...
Click to expand...

They didn't need anything else; 4 snipers and a chaser make such a tight defense that the cappers are at liberty to take their time getting one point up and then chill the rest of the game. In my game last night, the cappers didn't chill, which tied up 4 defenders and left the offense under powered for what we had to deal with. It was horribly unbalanced, and it was the number of good snipers that ruined it.
 
Fixious

Fixious

Test Lead
This is implemented in some Day of Defeat: Source servers, which I play quite often. Honestly, while there's the obvious issue Volt pointed out, I'd support it. The same stuff happens on servers in DoD that don't support this. Half your team is sniping(some in the same exact spot), others simply rely on the bazooka. No one actually tries to win the game.
 
NightHawk043

NightHawk043

Member
During one of the PUG's yesterday (by my time), we played a pug on nivosus where just about Everyone one the other team was sniping (so 6 or 7). We still won.
Admittedly this was partly because halfway through we countered the snipers by having 4 heavy cappers.

While I could see this being implemented for competitive matches and PUGs, I have severe doubts of it working in a Pub.
Having said that, like what said, when there are excessive players in one area, that leaves another area exposed. A good captain should be able to see that, and then adapt a new tactic which takes advantage of this weakness.
 
SeymourGore

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
Yar, I dunno if I'm a big fan of this idea. Sure it can be annoying, but I feel that placing caps on certain weapons would only confuse players. Plus, if a player wanted to practice a specific weapon with a cap (say, a laser rifle), but the limit was already met, well, I think that would be highly frustrating for the player.
 
Daphinicus

Daphinicus

Private Tester
Indeed. Generally, if you've got four snipers on the enemy team, you've got four players that aren't doing anything offensively, especially on a map as big as Zenith. That means you can spare more folks on your own offense to confuse them, allowing your cappers to zoom in and grab the flag. Obviously, I can't speak to the exact circumstances of your game, but the general rule of thumb is to find the counter to strategies like that. Nighthawk's idea of heavy cappers is one such strategy, but surely there are others.

I actually rather enjoy having fun with class overloading. I led a PUG a month or so back where I had all my team dress up in Heavies and go full offense. The enemy team had no idea what to make of it; we actually got one of the first caps of the game, despite the utterly bizarre approach, simply because we freaked the other other team out. Then we went full defense, all heavies, bunching up around the flag like a phalanx and holding off every capper who tried to force their way through. When they decided to go full offense on us because we weren't sending them anything for their defense to tangle with, we sent a single capper out to chain cap, over and over agian.

We didn't win -- we were just having fun, after all -- but we put up a damned good fight, and we had the enemy team in tatters because they couldn't figure out how to mount an effective offense against our stacked D. Sometimes, the surest path to victory is the unexpected. And when victory is still out of reach, just having a lot of fun with the whole situation can be worth it. =)

Also, watching a team of heavies trying to cross Zenith without jets is freakin' hilarious.
 
Redvan

Redvan

Private Tester
you best option is to not be a "super pro dedicated capper". Learn to do other things that your team needs, like, kill snipers. Too many people have the mentality that they should be good at only one aspect of the game, this is a perfect example of why that limits your capability.
 
w00tyou

w00tyou

Member
Recently my team scrimed with zeta, Ucan/Kryst snipe was devastating, but rock mentioned after the 2 games he got hit occationaly because when he skied he had to do tricks to dodge the beams. The sniper is not the problem in your case. Its that your being a passive player and not taking any effort to learn to dodge them.

Caping the sniper class is not a good solution, it removes the freedom of dessired weapon class.

But i never got an answer to the question, Why wasn't it possible to reduce the damage done on the old legions sniper, i really liked the firing system back then.(the charge up)
 
Wuzgud

Wuzgud

Legions Developer
I have to agree with Aki on this one. There's definitely a problem, however capping the number of snipers may not be the best solution for the reasons mentioned above. Perhaps reducing the damage sniper rifles do as more of them come into play would work, following for example following something similar to this:
Code: 
Damage = -3log(.05x)+4 where x ∈ [0,16], ignoring the asymptote.
 
Daphinicus

Daphinicus

Private Tester
Binswees said:
Atleast nerf the range of it, I don't like being sniped from 2 km away by lame snipers when doing my routes.
Click to expand...

It's a sniper rifle. That's what sniper rifles are for, aren't they? If you're getting sniped on your cap routes, have your LO take out the snipers. It's a team game, after all.
 
U

UtadaHikaru

Member
Wuzgud, i like the idea of nerfing the damage as more come into play, but with that said, if you have a really good sniper in there, then more newbies come in who cant hit anything, it takes the power away from the one who would be able to DO something with the weapon.
 
Lin

Lin

Member
Atleast nerf the range of it, I don't like being sniped from 2 km away by lame snipers when doing my routes.
Click to expand...

2km away? Cap route speed? "lame sniper" sounds pretty good to me.
 
Gheist

Gheist

King of all Goblins
That is exactly what Mabeline said, yes. And true. Also, to quote someone else: "Why do people always need to get something confirmed again after they just seen the answer?"
 
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