Blocking physics

DOS4/GW

Member
Has it ever bothered anyone else how blocking is handled? I mean, if an incoming capper going 190 hits a blocker going 0 to 10, you'd think that the blocker would be knocked back quite a bit. But he hardly moves at all.

Maybe a dev could shed some light on this? Is this a coding issue? A gameplay decision?
 

Redvan

Private Tester
yeah, I've always felt that blocking was far too easy, as if the blocker simply needs to reach out his finger and touch the capper to stop them dead. Felt that since the beginning of FE:L. Given proper LO in comp though, it shouldn't be that huge of an issue. But I certainly wouldn't mind if it were made better in terms of momentum, if that's possible with the engine.
 

A2

Member
Same here. Always felt that I'm getting blocked too easily. I'd love to see something like the blocker getting pushed away. That would balance out things actually. Again, that depends on the speed of the incoming capper.
Though this case if different for Sentinel, due to IOD.
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
Seymour wouldn't mind seeing a revamp of the body blocking mechanic; in the old, old FE:L forums, Seymour posted a new body blocking system. Seymour's not a coder, and I really have no idea how difficult it would be to program such a system in place, but I still think it's a cool idea. And it makes sense (a Sentinel should be able to plow through smaller armours due to his size and heft, whereas a smaller opponent would need to rely on a rocket or grenade to bounce an opponent out of the way).

Anyhow, here's that post. As usual, don't take it as a 'this is what we're going to implement next'-style post, it's from my own personal wish list and may not be realistic at all to implement.

Body Blocking

This is my attempt at suggesting a revamped body blocking system that’s a little more visceral and dynamic than the system that’s currently employed. I was going to wait to see what DeadSketch was going to suggest (as I know he had his own thoughts on this topic) but I figure the guy won’t be back until he’s done with his visit to Cybertron.

I’m going to ignore any limitations that may be imposed due to Torque and just post my ideal body blocking system. Like all my suggestions, I’m going to try to avoid hard numbers and rely more on careful wording to convey these values. Also, like before, I’m going to use terms that originate from my previous suggestions (Frames, Cores, etc) and this thread can be thought of as part of those threads.

And, like before, I apologize in advance if a system similar to this has propped up before, this thread area is at a staggering 56 pages now, the search function’s gone kaput and, really, it’s basically a new userbase following these threads so retreading over familiar ground won’t hurt.

Principle
The basic premise of this system is that the larger you are, the harder you are to move and the harder you hit when struck. If you are equipped with a heavy frame and body block a medium framed player, you will be knocked back as will the medium framed player. However, since you are a heavier frame, your knockback is not as severe and you receive less damage from the collision. Also, speed acts as a modifier in these situations. Depending on the speed of the player, the damage and knockback may be more severe.

Block resistance: This value determines how much resistance the frame has from being knocked around by another frame. Read: How far it's pushed back when struck (or if at all).

Damage absorption: This value determines how much damage the frame receives during a collision.

Strike value: This determines how much damage the frame causes to another frame during a collision.

Light frame: Minimal block resistance, minimal damage absorption, minimal strike value.

Medium frame: Moderate block resistance, moderate damage absorption, moderate strike value.

Heavy frame: Heavy block resistance, heavy damage absorption, heavy strike value.

Values between frame types
Light struck by
Light; no modifier

Medium; moderate decrease in block resistance

Heavy; heavy decrease in block resistance

Medium struck by
Light; slight increase in block resistance

Medium; no modifier

Heavy; moderate decrease in block resistance

Heavy struck by
Light; heavy increase in block resistance

Medium; moderate increase in block resistance

Heavy; no modifier

Basically what the above states is that a Heavy frame colliding against a lighter frame will knock the light frame significantly back while the heavier frame receives little knockback.

Speed Modifiers
The speed the colliding players are moving at also increases and decreases the above values. The higher the speed the player is moving increases their block resistance, decreases their damage absorption and increases their strike value.
So, in the case where two frames are both moving at a high velocity and collide with each other, the knockback value will be decreased but due to the decreased damage absorption and increased strike value it can be very damaging for both parties.

Bracing
If a player has his feet on the ground (or physically touching a structure) and moving at a low velocity, he is considered ‘bracing’. This causes an increase in their knockback resistance and damage absorption. This is designed so that a HoF isn’t so easily knocked off the flagstand due to a ramming HO and to limit the effectiveness of a speedy HO merely plowing through the enemy.

Aesthetics
I’d like it to be more visceral during a collision and would like to see the players hold up their arms up higher (like they’re preparing for a collision) and a loud cracking noise as they collide. I think this would provide a lot more oomph during the body block and make it a more satisfying maneuver.
Perhaps the speed can affect the volume of the collision crack to make it even more spectacular. Think thunder cracking during a thunderstorm.

OD Effects
Personally, I’d like to see ODing into an opponent similar to what it is now. That the ‘OD shockwave’ pushes players out of the way and is not affected by size differences. As for burst ODing into a player, this is still possible, however the body blocking system does not come into play, so while still being an effective move, it does not provide the added properties of the body block.
Also, I suggest toning down the Burst OD effects somewhat at spawn. My concern that it’d be too effective if the full shockwave effect is given to spawn players. So I modified the Energy Core to boost the shockwave of the Burst OD to its current level.

Collision Effects
Seymour’s not a smart man, so I can’t really intelligently describe what happens between players during a collision. The way I like to think of it is, say you have two pool balls that collide with each other. Depending on what angle they collide at, they veer off into their respective directions. I’d like to see something similar in Legions, depending on the angle and where on their body they collide, this affects which direction they veer off in.
 

Daphinicus

Private Tester
First off: Daffy likes. Daffy likes a lot.

Secondly: Excepting the "Aesthetics" portion of your post, Seymour, I don't believe any of your ideas are beyond the realm of possibility, nor of reason -- they all make good sense, and are basically just fairly simple mathematic algorithms run at collision time. Depending on how collision is handled, the "Collision Effects" portion may be a little more difficult to implement. And the "Aesthetics" stuff, while cute, doesn't really effect gameplay in any way, which should be our first priority.

Hearty back-pat, Seymour. And a hearty back-pat for DOS as well for bringing this up -- it's bugged me too, and there's no good reason (other than time and priorities) to not at least try to fix it.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
[...] Maybe a dev could shed some light on this? Is this a coding issue? [...]
While I'm not a dev, I can still tell you that yes, it is. An engine limitation to be exact. If it would be possible to implement a more "realistic" BB system, we'd already have it in game.

[...] Strike value: This determines how much damage the frame causes to another frame during a collision. [...]
That's something that we already have by the way. A Sentinel basically deals as much impact damage as if you're hitting a wall. Raider a bit less, and an Outrider's damage output is decreased yet again. Sorry, can't recall the exact values for Raider and OR at the moment.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
I agree that it would make more sense to have the body blocker pushed back dependant on the speed. That would make it more fun and interesting to me imo.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
I agree that it would make more sense to have the body blocker pushed back dependant on the speed. That would make it more fun and interesting to me imo.
While I'm not a dev, I can still tell you that yes, it is. An engine limitation to be exact. If it would be possible to implement a more "realistic" BB system, we'd already have it in game.
 

Homingun

Member
I don't think the body blocker getting knocked back would add as much to this game as if he/she were to get damaged. There shouldn't be an engine limitation that restricts giving damage to both parties involved in a block.
 

GReaper

Grumpy
Has it ever bothered anyone else how blocking is handled? I mean, if an incoming capper going 190 hits a blocker going 0 to 10, you'd think that the blocker would be knocked back quite a bit. But he hardly moves at all.

At 425 miles per hour (which is what 190 metres per second is) I'd personally expect both the player and the bodyblocker to just die from the impact damage! :p
 

Mhi200

Member
Why is it that in some collisions between a raider and an outrider, the OR is undamaged, but the raider takes a few %?
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
In a player/player collision, the faster one receives damage (if the speed is high enough). It doesn't matter which armor he's in.
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
Exactly. You get no damage from a BB (or any other player/player collision), no matter how fast you are, as long as the one you're colliding with is faster.
 

DOS4/GW

Member
I still don't understand why the push back cannot be coded. Overdrive throws people around no problem; wouldn't there be a way to retrofit whatever does this into regular collisions?
 
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