An In-Depth Analysis on Positions

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
I’ve been trying to find new ways to make the small amount of pickup games that I play a little more enjoyable. Of course, there are bread and butter strategies such as the 4D/4O approach. I’ve been playing around with the new weapons and I find that the positions that were hard to perform are much easier now (especially with the new sniper). So hopefully, the content that is in the public test gets released to live. :p It is not easy to find different and unique ways to play a game that can actually be affective against real players. This thread is for me to show the community my findings and of course get feedback. Maybe you’ll read the entire post and be interested in some, I dunno. It doesn’t hurt to try. These positions are a combination of ideas that I have had, modifications of older positions, and newer positions that I actually played that have proven to be affective in-game.
The listings of positions:

Sweeper
This position is one of my favorites to play and it proves to be extremely effective in-game and fills a unique niche that no other class can fill. With the addition of the Outrider Hornet class in the public test, the Sweeper has some new components to play with. The added maneuverability from the outrider class is definitely a plus, as well as the damage drop being less severe while energy is being lost. Although I say the position is very effective in-game, it takes a player with great map-awareness, ability to identify priority targets, dueling capability, accuracy with a laser rifle, and flag-play. This position is very situational depending on what the team needs, whether it be offensive, defensive, or mid-field. Of course, the sweeper should not stay on one side of the map, because his position depends on the situation and flow of the match as well as the map being played on.

The role of an offensive approach of a sweeper is to distract the defenders for your teams’ cappers, kill outgoing cappers and Light Offense, kill the enemy capper as he comes in from mid-field and be prepared for a standoff. Yes, this sounds exactly like Light Offense, but it is executed differently and is only one part of what a sweepers does. With the addition of a rocket and sniper rifle, the hornet has an incredible amount of killing power and can bring outgoing offense down to a miniscule amount of health in two shots. That is of course if you can hit both, but that is what the position requires in the first place. It makes it much easier on the chaser if you can kill the capper mid-field with a sniper, rather than at the enemy base. That is something the gunner lacks, mid-long range capability. Do not stand in the bowl in front of the enemy’s base and snipe their defense. This method is ineffective and a waste of a team’s position.

The role of a mid-field Sweeper is much more complex than the other two approaches. This is where your dueling ability, map awareness, proficiency with the laser rifle, and flag-play comes into effect. The purpose is to attack the enemy’s offense coming in to your base, assist your team’s chaser and take down the enemy capper leaving the base, and keep the flag in your team’s possession at all times. Knowing your priority targets is also a major aspect in this role, because deciding who to shoot first could make or break to effectiveness of the situation. Who is more of a threat? The hornet has the same if not more killing power than the offensive set, because you have more opportunity to hit and kill incoming and outgoing offense. Keeping the flag in your (and the chaser’s) possession is not an easy task. You need map awareness to know where your flag is and correct decision making to formulate a plan to get it back, whether you should cut him off or meet him at the base. It is also not something new to say that the enemy team will become annoyed with your position and send one, two, sometimes three players after you. I’ve seen it happen more than enough times to make it known here. If done right, this position is priceless.

The defensive approach is similar to a defensive sniper, with the new option of using the front of your bowl as an area where you perform in. On your side of the field, you also have the opportunity to hit incoming and outgoing cappers. Remember to focus who is the bigger thread and kill him as quick as possible.

Dual- Sweepers
I have tried this out many times and its hilarious how fun and effective it is to play. Keeping in mind the requirements of a single sweeper, Dual-Sweepers consist of two players. It would be better for a larger game of 8v8/9v9. First off, a leader would have to be picked. His job is to call out priority targets and be able to move the two where the team needs them. This includes splitting up into two separate approaches while still coordinating. The burst damage capabilities of Dual-Sweepers is incredible ( if they actually hit their shots). On a personal note, it is fun to move around with a friend and actually be effective while coordinating.

Escorte
This is a position that I have tried very recently, and it is a very effective supporting role on the offensive side. The escort acts as a capper support, following said capper on his exact route. This of course requires good capping and aiming capabilities as well as good flag-play. If the capper hits his route, it is your job to see he gets home, pick up the flag if it is dropped, and kill the enemy chasers. If he misses or is blocked, grab the flag and head out. During a standoff you have a choice of going where the team needs you most. You can choose to kill to offense coming into your base or pass with the HoF and/or capper on the defensive approach. This position is most effective for me in an 8v8 environment. The escort should not serve as a second capper, so there should still be two other cappers on your team. It is good to have tandem routes in a game as they would make this offensive composition even more effective. If not, it is very easy to get out with a proficient Light Offense. If the defenders are good enough to have three players, try it out sometime.

Hornet Stay-Home
With the new addition of the outrider hornet class, it is much easier to defend yourself if you are being harassed by light offense. It was difficult to do so in the previous outrider class without a good stayhome. The raider hornet was an option, but I liked the maneuverability. Also, the sniper for the raider is not here anymore.

Hornet Chaser
This position offers a good support role with another chaser on your team. The damage drop-off update really helps the effectiveness of the Hornet Chaser. You have many opportunities to snipe incoming and outgoing offense, while being able to chase them down in the process. This can be done alone, but it requires a lot of practice to become effective. Remember to watch and maintain your energy, because the damage drop-off is always there. Two chasers make it much easier to secure and protect the flag in mid-field, especially with a sniper. This obviously also requires good coordination with the other chaser on your team, being able to call out cappers, tell the team the status of the flag, and determind in an E-grab is needed.

Snapper (Snipe Capper)
This is just a fun position I tried with the new hornet loadout. Since the chaser usually wastes a lot of health on rocket or grenade jumps, a snipe is more than enough to take out all of their health. This position requires you to balance out your energy and momentum. It also requires good aim while you are skiing. Since you don’t really use the chaingun while you cap, this is a very interesting approach to capping, and proves to be effective (and COOL). This would give the enemy chaser something to worry about, ey?

Thats it on the positions that I've been playing around with. You're free to comment, criticize, support, discuss. Try them out using my ideas if you want, playing a unique position is always fun. :D

Sharp's guide: http://www.mediafire.com/?2djy519nn3dipn5
 
this is pretty awesome looking, but the one flaw i see in it is that it requires a good sniper (myself, i cant snipe at all :D) personally, i'd like to see other positions using different units

PS. I dont get how the Snapper works. is it just a regular Cap + sniping the chasers going at you, while skiing backwards? o.o
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
Good post, while I haven't played around with the sweeper position much, I believe it can only be truly effective on smaller maps. While the escort position sounds interesting, the capper shouldn't need an escort in the first place and I would rather have cappers running the same route and if one grabs, the other follows and escorts. I think that Hornet chase is going to be the position to play, and I'm looking very forward to it. I personally do a snipe stay at home/chase rather than be tied down to one position, especially when there's that extra stay at home around.

Overall though, I think that the new sniper rifle is only one branch of the tactics we could be seeing in the future, and I'm looking more forward to the plasma gun than anything else.
 

Buhlitz

Member
I have been pushing for an Outrider with RL/Snipe for a long time, that would have been my favorite/ideal class. I was told no because it was too powerful early on, I'm sure there has been enough balance tweaks to justify it if Ucan is standing behind it.

This makes me very happy, and I thought your class descriptions were spot on and well thought out.

I still think the old style charge to shoot laser, in outrider, with a rocket launcher would be the ultimate class both in utility and fun, but also learning curve.

On a different, but still somewhat related note I'd always wanted a class that plays to my preferred play-style a bit.

Basically it would be outrider, with old RLS (less damage/blast radius) and a teleport like gun, similar to Portal except cooler and designed by Bugspray. Basically it was a GLS that when you let off the trigger to explode it you'd teleport to that location facing a constant direction (don't recall based on what) with the same speed. you could do all sorts of cool stuff with it and overdrive, that with the addition of RLS creates a tremendous amount of flag play and offensive clearing/distracting/flag toss possibilities.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
this is pretty awesome looking, but the one flaw i see in it is that it requires a good sniper (myself, i cant snipe at all :D) personally, i'd like to see other positions using different units

PS. I dont get how the Snapper works. is it just a regular Cap + sniping the chasers going at you, while skiing backwards? o.o

The Snapper was a joke that turned out to be good. :p It takes too much time to chain a chaser out. With this, it would be much easier since chasers are usually around 40% when they catch up to you. And yeah, most of the positions are for skilled/intermediate players.

I would make other positions such as Heavy Offense, which has great potential, but I'm waiting for the updates to come.
Good post, while I haven't played around with the sweeper position much, I believe it can only be truly effective on smaller maps. While the escort position sounds interesting, the capper shouldn't need an escort in the first place and I would rather have cappers running the same route and if one grabs, the other follows and escorts. I think that Hornet chase is going to be the position to play, and I'm looking very forward to it. I personally do a snipe stay at home/chase rather than be tied down to one position, especially when there's that extra stay at home around.

Overall though, I think that the new sniper rifle is only one branch of the tactics we could be seeing in the future, and I'm looking more forward to the plasma gun than anything else.
I've seen sweepers be effective in maps as big as Fallout and Zenith. The Sweeper is unnecessary in maps such as Core and Blade Run. They're pretty effective in Elegiac, too.

You are high right now aren't you.
NO
On a different, but still somewhat related note I'd always wanted a class that plays to my preferred play-style a bit.

Basically it would be outrider, with old RLS (less damage/blast radius) and a teleport like gun, similar to Portal except cooler and designed by Bugspray. Basically it was a GLS that when you let off the trigger to explode it you'd teleport to that location facing a constant direction (don't recall based on what) with the same speed. you could do all sorts of cool stuff with it and overdrive, that with the addition of RLS creates a tremendous amount of flag play and offensive clearing/distracting/flag toss possibilities.
That does sound like an interesting idea. I could see cappers and chasers using that.
 
I'm not sure of the name so I'll just make a name for the time being:

Guerrilla :
Though it sounds like another LO/MO/HO(in some cases), as they name states, they are a hit and run class, I've been a little bit of it recently, but the main role is to...

Be the first one into the enemy base, Spamming out every single weapon they have before even reaching it, OD into every defender before cleanly getting away(if possible, and if not, OD kill something). The effectiveness of this is a little bit better than LO(depending on your situation) because of your clearing of the way as the capper comes in.

Simpley to put it, you are the capper's meatshield.

Certain Loadouts I find useful for doing such a thing:
Defender(Because of the high armor and that Cluster grenades are surely going to clear out the stand)
Bomber(Because of long OD duration and weapons)
Gunner(Same as above except more armor and not as long of duration for OD)
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
wat i do with it?
You're free to comment, criticize, support, discuss. Try them out if you want, playing a unique position is always fun.

Guerrilla
Usually during a game, the cappers will tell the Light Offense to sweep the flag for them. While I do agree that clearing the base using overdrive is effective, I don't agree that there should be a position specifically for that purpose. It sounds to me like one of the options of a standard Light Offense.
 

Buhlitz

Member
Usually during a game, the cappers will tell the Light Offense to sweep the flag for them. While I do agree that clearing the base using overdrive is effective, I don't agree that there should be a position specifically for that purpose. It sounds to me like one of the options of a standard Light Offense.

So I used to dabble with wanting to have dedicated HO's who's position was basically to do exactly what he was saying, use iOD to clear defenders, and or grab and throw the flag to a capper who's en route where a slight change is all that is necessary for the grab point vs pass point. The flag play worked, but we never could get ho's to route to the flag fast enough to practically make up for the loss of lighter armors running routes (e grabs etc).

Thing is, with how fast paced legions is it really takes an incredibly strong but more importantly consistent defense to allow offense to be more technical and pull out the bag of tricks. If the flag is constantly off the stand you are forced to adjust , if the flag is home on a regular occasion offensive options opens up like the red sea.
 
Cough cough. So I failed my post. Woohoo.

Blop Blop

Karnage had done that VERY VERY well.

OT:

Anyways, what I meant by guerrila is that you specifically fly IN FRONT of the capper, acting as a meatshield until you OD into your first defender, although it doesn't work every time because of accidental BB and loss of speed, it's super effective when used right.

Discussion about your classes:

Sweeper seems like an LO. In the middle of the field;
You do the same basics although you might get some flag play;
Shoot everything that's not on your team, BB someone from capping.

I find Escorte to be where I could fit the most during long caps;
I'm normally always a meatshield.

Hornet Stay-Home is something that's pretty much been done for a while by some dedicated people, now it's just somewhat more alive.

Hornet Chaser <3

Snapper : After trying a few caps with it, one thing that still concerns me is timing it right to keep enough energy up for capping. Other than that, I find it SUPER DEE DUPER JOLLY RANCHER-LICIOUS, ASLDNZMCSZMKCXA JIZZ ON MY KEYBOARD fun.
 

57thRomance

Member
I remember really good heavies like OMGJuiceBox and midfield long-range/combat snipers like Kryst playing amazing "sweeper-like" tactics, especially on Nivo and Moonshine. With the addition of larger stages, I'd think more agile, and maybe even just more sweepers would be necessary for this strategy to work.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
And it probably won't until more people are willing to play massive maps like Blade Run in 10 v 10s. Along with the fact that the position is rare and will take certain kinds of players to do it.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
I'm sure a lot of players would want to play different maps in pugs, preferably larger maps.

Ha, not the case in Europe. We played a 10v10 on frost for some reason today. Whenever I am captain and pick a different map like stygain, everyone moans. I'd play more blade run if we generally had a larger turnout of players, and I liked captaining bigger pickups, which I don't
 
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