The LR and RLS should either be removed completely, or made useful.

sh4rkb1t3

New Member
I understand that the old RLS and LR were ruining competitive play.

But keeping them included in the game in a gimped state is only a temporary solution. Either get rid of them or make them work.

Here's my suggestion for the LR. I understand that nobody wants to be sniped from 2 miles away, instead of it being a camping weapon, it should be a close range weapon. There should be a range cap on it: about a quarter of the way across the first snow map would be fine. Also, because it would be for CQC only, it should not drain your energy or have to be charged. It would pretty much be a chaingun alternative, except slow firing, hitscan, and close range only.

Here's my suggestion for RLS: give it a passive upgrade, like faster rockets or more damage. The predetonation wasn't working (apparently) and the new acceleration feature is boring and useless. So unless somebody else can think of another special function, I think a passive upgrade would be playing it safe
 

stefygraff

Private Tester
It takes more skill to be a Rocket Launcher Specialist than to be a gunner. It;s just a class with its own characteristics, just like the others... If you would take its special ability, it would be good for nothing , also it wouldn't be "special" anymore. They are a key part of this game!
 
While I agree RLS needs some revision (as the after burner is a bit useless) your idea is a bit silly. I still think the remote detonation should return without a knock back so it cant knock cappers of their routes, which is why I hear it was removed.

Your idea for LR is completely missing the point of its role in the game. Again I thought the old LR was fine if u reduced its kill power, eg. nothing but a head shot gives a insta kill.

Not that any of the above is going to happen, Mabel seems pretty impressed with his weapon changes, stating things are more balanced than ever before (which is true) but at the expense of depth of class dynamics which made all the classes much alike and deleted some of the most fun aspects of Legions which is why I think this part of the game deserves more discussion and re considering rather than 'stop hurting everyone with your stupid questions' reply Mabel delivers.
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
I like to believe there's a place for effective long ranged combat in this game. It's kinda hard to see that in its current state (being kinda barren and all), but I like to think that as more and more assets are added to the game, the laser rifle would become a more viable support weapon. ie: Enemies are busy battling your defensive structures, and sniping them with your laser rifle would be more beneficial than using a rocket launcher (with its deployable damaging splash damage).

As for the RLS, I say remove the weapon. I always found the latest iteration kinda boring in comparison to the non-RLS model, and I would prefer to see an entirely new weapon with RLS-qualities and purpose. Which brings me to the following DeadGuy quote, which basically states to expect specialist weapons to be phased out (and replaced with new weapons to fit these niche specialist roles).

Ok, you guys deserve to know this.
Part of added customization means that we are moving away from "specialist" weapons. Making 2 sets of a weapon, one being weaker and the other stronger, was just a balance nightmare and often made 1 of the 2 useless or overpowered. Either it is considered a unique weapon on its own or it isn't. If it wasn't unique, just more powerful, it should be scrapped and/or redesigned. This makes adding new weapons much easier too, since each can have a specific role in use and we don't have to worry about the standard+specialist aspect.

So that means the specialist chaingun and laser weapons are gone. Cluster will be balanced as a separate individual weapon (not OP+useful), and RLS is also being redesigned. So you might enjoy having the normal grenade + the Cluster, or both the new RLS and the Cluster in the same loadout. Class limitations may apply like Outrider can't carry Cluster (still testing if that is necessary or not). More details will emerge as we finalize all the aspects in correlation with adding new material to the game.
 

MJ1284

Member
Here's my suggestion for the LR. I understand that nobody wants to be sniped from 2 miles away, instead of it being a camping weapon, it should be a close range weapon. There should be a range cap on it: about a quarter of the way across the first snow map would be fine. Also, because it would be for CQC only, it should not drain your energy or have to be charged. It would pretty much be a chaingun alternative, except slow firing, hitscan, and close range only.

I think the diminishing damage on longer ranges is sufficient to tone down would-be O-Snipers while still remaining useful for base defenders. You're suggesting turning Laser Rifle closer to Shocklance or something similar? That kind of beats the point of sniping rifle (which, I admit, DOES have it's uses in Legions).

As for close range hitscan, how powerful would it be? If it's insta-kill it would make chaingun obsolete in duels (hell, if it's not bad to go against good chainer in a duel *points at kasityolainen*).

Here's my suggestion for RLS: give it a passive upgrade, like faster rockets or more damage. The predetonation wasn't working (apparently) and the new acceleration feature is boring and useless. So unless somebody else can think of another special function, I think a passive upgrade would be playing it safe

Passive upgrade sounds good, I recall suggesting something similar on IA's forums. I'd rather see increased splash radius, increased ammo capacity and faster reload, it would amp up the rocket launcher's main aspects without making it too powerful/too easy to use.
 

Mabeline

God-Tier
Specs have always been a fundamentally broken idea. Just imagine trying to make a weapon that's supposed to be better than something almost exactly like it, but still balanced. The very idea of it is absurd. While I don't agree that LR is useless, I do admit that the rocket spec is pushing it and that I was never particularly satisfied with the idea or result.

I've played with high damage close range hitscan weaponry, and it was pretty ridiculous. The problem was that they were immensely useful at short range and ended combat incredibly quickly (and that's without ping compensation to make them behave properly!) but they were useless as soon as a player got more than 200 meters away. This would make them an essential part of an LO's loadout and a useless addition to chasers, who already regularly use lighter armors.

Not that any of the above is going to happen, Mabel seems pretty impressed with his weapon changes, stating things are more balanced than ever before (which is true) but at the expense of depth of class dynamics which made all the classes much alike and deleted some of the most fun aspects of Legions which is why I think this part of the game deserves more discussion and re considering rather than 'stop hurting everyone with your stupid questions' reply Mabel delivers.

While I can certainly relate to the feeling that we reduced the diversity of the game (which we did), to imply that the changes were for the worse is shortsighted. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it's best to leave it in the game. The removed specs were fountains of ridiculous things that should never happen. Unfortunately the overall health of the game is not just determined by the fun of the people using weapons, but the people on the other side of them.

If we had had the opportunity we would have gone on and added new content, obviously. Unfortunately we were on a strict timetable dropped on us that was something like "make the game suck less in 2 weeks", and this is what you got. Sorry, but we did the best we could. I do hope to add to the game, but weapons themselves do not create very good diversity. There are only so many decent weapon ideas, and most of them aren't particularly useful without secondary objectives or customization to release the 'tightness' of the CG/RL/GL combo that covers pretty much the entire range of play effortlessly.
 

sh4rkb1t3

New Member
Specs have always been a fundamentally broken idea. Just imagine trying to make a weapon that's supposed to be better than something almost exactly like it, but still balanced. The very idea of it is absurd.

The idea is that for the specialist classes, their specialist weapon is better, but to compensate for that they have fewer weapons than the gunner. I think the game should be balanced on a class-by-class basis, not a weapon-by-weapon basis.

I think the diminishing damage on longer ranges is sufficient to tone down would-be O-Snipers while still remaining useful for base defenders. You're suggesting turning Laser Rifle closer to Shocklance or something similar? That kind of beats the point of sniping rifle (which, I admit, DOES have it's uses in Legions).

As for close range hitscan, how powerful would it be? If it's insta-kill it would make chaingun obsolete in duels (hell, if it's not bad to go against good chainer in a duel *points at kasityolainen*).
Yeah, I'm saying the sniper/base defender concept for the weapon was boring. It also doesn't, IMO, fit the FPSZ framework... it's not fun when everyone is zooming around in the air, and you're stuck on the ground in the base like a sitting duck, as if you're playing halo or something.
If the LR and RLS aren't going to change, they should just be thrown out, because right now they're just distracting noobs from playing the game properly.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
I always thought that defence sniping was very fun, one of my favorite things to do. You don't necesarily need to stand in one spot, a defender needs to keep moving when he's at the base. If you know how to use it, it can be devastating on any side of the field. Pinging a capper is more than enough to do to be effective, and getting them twice is even better. Its a good way to relieve defense along with a stayhome imo.
 

Novaz

Member
I understand that the old RLS and LR were ruining competitive play.

But keeping them included in the game in a gimped state is only a temporary solution. Either get rid of them or make them work.

Here's my suggestion for the LR. I understand that nobody wants to be sniped from 2 miles away, instead of it being a camping weapon, it should be a close range weapon. There should be a range cap on it: about a quarter of the way across the first snow map would be fine. Also, because it would be for CQC only, it should not drain your energy or have to be charged. It would pretty much be a chaingun alternative, except slow firing, hitscan, and close range only.

If there was a range cap on the LR it'd be hard to justify if your target were in range of your rifle or not. That being said, it would be less of a sniper if it was restricted to short distance shooting. If the sniper can't snipe two miles away it's not as fun for the person shooting, but its easy skiing for the target. I've heard the old sniper is coming back, if so, then even more reason to keep it a long ranged weapon... If you have it charged, it restricts your own movements to jump, front, back, right, left. Your stuck to Call of Duty movements, while the target will most likely be skiing at over 100 MPS (hopefully).
 

Gheist

King of all Goblins
Both RLS and LR will be redesigned. There will be no specialist versions anymore. All that was already officially stated. Also:
[...] I think the game should be balanced on a class-by-class basis, not a weapon-by-weapon basis. [...]
The class system will be changed, if not even removed entirely, as stated here:
Yes, I am definitely adding custom loadouts. Of course everything must balance so certain restrictions will apply. For example, Instant-OD is only available on sentinels, sentinel cannot carry a sniper rifle, etc. As we add content like more weapons and "other goodies" more limitations will crop up, but I'm striving to have as much customization as possible. [...]
So please, don't get cought up in useless speculation and discussions based on assumptions. Let's all wait until we have something to talk about.

[...] I've heard the old sniper is coming back [...]
You've heard wrong.
 

Astrum

Super Special R&D
The LR in Tribes worked so well because of the map sizes, number of players per server, and base assets. O-sniping was never really an issue and was an amazing weapon choice to take down cappers along with the CG. Right now the LR has a damage dropoff (forget the range) as well as ammo (which would be useless if we got deployable inventory stations). I remember one time someone was trying to o-snipe me and my health would regen before his next shot. He was right by one of the ancillary ammo stations on Blade Run iirc, it was quite amusing. At the moment it's balanced towards the so called "good" maps and all of the large maps it has limited usefulness.

As far as the RLS, I liked the old one. To my understanding it was changed because of the airburst and damage making it pretty OP. As a defensive tool without damage, just the air burst to divert paths, it was amazingly useful and helped to mitigate the effects of easily attainable speeds for cappers. Of course if specialist classes are going away, I don't see how such a weapon could be rolled into its own gun. A no damage airburst turret would be interesting for defensive purposes though. Not sure if it'd work, but interesting.
 
i brought up the idea of sticky hand nades and it was said that thats just like mines which is true but sticky nades has the advantage of not needing another button assignment and simplifies thing by not being overwhelmed by options.

Really where is the advantage in a nade bouncing too, personally its why gunner is out for me, the third time a nade bounced on my own head after not exploding on a hill was the final straw for me. At the speeds involved it seems ludicrous not to have control of your own projectiles place of impact. If remote detonation is not an option for gunner then it at least needs to explode at the first point of impact at speed.
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
i brought up the idea of sticky hand nades and it was said that thats just like mines which is true but sticky nades has the advantage of not needing another button assignment and simplifies thing by not being overwhelmed by options.

Seymour's always liked 'sticky grenades'. Sure, it's "very Halo", but I think it could be a very fun mechanic. One thing that I would like to see, would be a method of 'shaking off' the sticky nades. For example, if you achieve a fast enough speed, or go into OD, the sticky nade falls off. It'd be hillarious to see players get one stuck on them, panic, then try to downjet, OD, or whatever to shake the thing off before it explodes.

As for sticky nades being too similar to mines, I disagree. I view a sticky nade having a far shorter fuse than a mine (say, a 5 second fuse) and causing less damage than a mine.

A mine I view primarily as a 'flagstand' or 'chokepoint' defensive item, which would require a longer time to live than a grenade (think: 5 minute timer before it detonates). I also like the idea of a mine causing more damage versus a grenade, due to its stationary role and reliance more on carelessness of the enemy than on actual player skill.
 

Freeman

RAYTANG
Seymour's always liked 'sticky grenades'. Sure, it's "very Halo", but I think it could be a very fun mechanic. One thing that I would like to see, would be a method of 'shaking off' the sticky nades. For example, if you achieve a fast enough speed, or go into OD, the sticky nade falls off. It'd be hillarious to see players get one stuck on them, panic, then try to downjet, OD, or whatever to shake the thing off before it explodes.
Wouldn't this be too easy for a sent? They would just instantly OD every time they get "stuck".

If we were to have sticky nades, I think they shouldn't be able to come off. Its not like it would be easy sticking someone going 100+.
 

Mhi200

Member
Wouldn't this be too easy for a sent? They would just instantly OD every time they get "stuck".

If we were to have sticky nades, I think they shouldn't be able to come off. Its not like it would be easy sticking someone going 100+.
Well, sents are a big target. They're going to get stuck a lot if at all, and iOD drains health.
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
Wouldn't this be too easy for a sent? They would just instantly OD every time they get "stuck".

If we were to have sticky nades, I think they shouldn't be able to come off. Its not like it would be easy sticking someone going 100+.

True, a Sent could brush one off by entering OD, but if he was playing HoF he's just opened up a nice opportunity for the capper to swoop in.

As for being able to shake them off, I just want to see people dance, Freeman556. I love to watch people dance. It's true that due to the speed of Legions, there won't be very many opportunities to stick an opponent (it'll likely be mostly the HoF taking the brunt of the abuse), but I still like the 'panic' element to the item.

With that said, I'm leaning more toward 'OD' shaking the item off moreso than a fast speed (due to sweet high speed sticks not being possible). Perhaps a few sharp 'upjet-downjet' combos to loosen the sticky nade (or going into OD).
 
Top