'Super Boost' option for boost core

[Jaymyster]

So the current depression of populated games has influenced me to finally bring this idea to light. We all know boost core falls short when it comes to chasing cappers that are just plainly too fast. It leaves boost nades as the only real option any serious chaser would have. I would notice it often (when we had more frequent populated games) and I'm sure many of you have noticed it as well.

I'm thinking that the time in between initially pressing the core button and the actual boost would be the opportunity for the player to press R again to initiate the super boost (with the core animation acting accordingly). But there are many other options for what would initiate the 'super boost' for the core. Maybe a hold of R instead for players that over-press R or even some animation on the core indicating the short period of time you have to initiate the super boost (if you want it to be more of a skilled ability). Using the superboost would probably have a 1-2 second longer cool down period I would imagine as well.

Regardless of how it's done, I see this as something needed to make boost core more viable when chasing. There is a lot of open area for how you guys decide to incorporate this idea (such as even a third level of super boosting similar to the boost nade's super boost), so I would hope it's a topic thoroughly discussed if you do decide to incorporate it. The degree of how less efficient (health wise) this is going to be in comparison to boost nades (due to the ease of looking in the direction you want to boost in) is something that has to be considered as well.

I understand that the vast majority of suggestions (even great ones) from players are seldom actually added into the game (unless it's about nerfing) because it's not cool to listen to what some guy suggested on forums and put exactly what he suggested into the game. But I'm going to ask you to please try look past that if this idea makes sense to you, and if it doesn't, to at least explain yourself well.

PS. I know I'm currently suggesting this for servers that are 3v3ed at best. This is something I'd like to be considered for the next legions as well.

 

[scoot]

We all know boost core falls short when it comes to chasing cappers that are just plainly too fast. It leaves boost nades as the only real option any serious chaser would have.

It sounds like you're talking about buffing boost nade-less chasing, since boost core+boost nades is more than enough right now.

So I guess the main thing to consider would be whether or not chasers with frag/emp should have the same acceleration ability as chasers with boost nades, and I personally don't think they should. Each hand grenade has a unique function: frags for fragging, emp for disrupting, and boost for accelerating. When you choose one, you lose out on the abilities of the others. Giving boost core a superboost-like ability would upset that balance, since you could use emp or frag nades and still accelerate as if you had boost nades.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not a problem that boost nades are required for chasing. In fact, it's actually good in terms of balance.

 

[SNAKEOPS]

Nope nope nope. No buffs to boost core whatsoever. Boost core is intended as a training wheel to boost nading. Jay, boost core is really fine right now. Don't ever expect boost core to do the job for you of getting you to catch up with decent cappers, ever. Hell, right now as a20 said, boost core+boost nades is pretty much really good. I know you're not much of a chaser Jay, so try chasing more. Hell, I don't use ANY cores except for overdrive and boost nades only does me pretty good. I know you don't chase much jay, but any decent chaser knows that the new cores such as shield and boost core have their work cut out for them.

 

[Defender]

These boost options are tricky, I just added a auto concussion mode for my Blast Cannon, that auto switch's to a concussion projectile when the weapon is aimed, up close to terrains or interiors. This mode allows players to gain fast speeds when used correctly.
You can try it out on one of my Advanced mod, servers.

 

[Jaymyster]

It sounds like you're talking about buffing boost nade-less chasing, since boost core+boost nades is more than enough right now.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I am supporting the buffing of boost-nadeless chasing, but not necessarily to the degree of superiority above boost nades. Boost nades will most likely always remain the supreme way of chasing due to 1. the lack of cool down and 2. the wide range of boost that the player has control of with them 3. the ability to use cores (OD), which is definitely more useful than any nade could ever be when chasing. The boost core on the other hand only gives the player one option for how much faster they can go, WITH a cool down; and there are many times where as a player you know you have no chance of getting where you need to fast enough, but you just keep spamming R to get the job done as fast as you can. The point is, I'm sure many people would find the option of being able to boost further/faster very useful in general, even if it had a significantly larger toll on it's ratio from health-lost to speed-gained.

So I guess the main thing to consider would be whether or not chasers with frag/emp should have the same acceleration ability as chasers with boost nades, and I personally don't think they should.

The same argument you made here can be said about chasers having cores, in which case chasers with cores are at more of an advantage anyway (when chasing). Also, what I'm suggesting here isn't necessarily for boost core to have the same capabilities as boost nades (even though I brought up the idea of a third level of boosting similar to boost nades), it's more of an idea for more efficient travel in-game.

Each hand grenade has a unique function: frags for fragging, emp for disrupting, and boost for accelerating. When you choose one, you lose out on the abilities of the others. Giving boost core a superboost-like ability would upset that balance, since you could use emp or frag nades and still accelerate as if you had boost nades.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not a problem that boost nades are required for chasing. In fact, it's actually good in terms of balance.

This would in no way upset any balance. Boost core will most likely never be able to match up to boost nades (when chasing) as I explained before anyway. Boost core is supposed to be the door opener (because 95% of players need either boost nades or boost core in game) for nades to become an option worth choosing, and personally I think that is an area for more potential in legions (especially if more nades are introduced).

Personally, I would ideally see the choice between nades and cores to be something that is a difficult choice in the future, with boost-core being the key for that to happen. In which case, boost core would need to step up from where it is now.

 

[Jaymyster]

Nope nope nope. No buffs to boost core whatsoever. Boost core is intended as a training wheel to boost nading. Jay, boost core is really fine right now. Don't ever expect boost core to do the job for you of getting you to catch up with decent cappers, ever. Hell, right now as a20 said, boost core+boost nades is pretty much really good. I know you're not much of a chaser Jay, so try chasing more. Hell, I don't use ANY cores except for overdrive and boost nades only does me pretty good. I know you don't chase much jay, but any decent chaser knows that the new cores such as shield and boost core have their work cut out for them.

Why did you choose voice your opinion on my suggestion if it was going to be so emotionally driven? I'm sorry, but I can't help but only take this offensively. Allow me to filter out what is actually feedback on my topic.

Boost core is intended as a training wheel to boost nading.

Extremely opinionated

Hell, right now as a20 said, boost core+boost nades is pretty much really good.

Who does this? Boost nades already give you nearly a full range of how far/fast you want to boost with it's super boost that already leaves you practically dead. Whoever does do this is being redundant and is wasting their core slot imo.

 

[scoot]

Who does this? Boost nades already give you nearly a full range of how far/fast you want to boost with it's super boost. Whoever does do this is being redundant and is wasting their core slot imo.

Plenty of good chasers do. Superboost is actually pretty bad for most chase scenarios. Let's compare:

Superboost

• 86% damage
• brings you to ~145 m/s from a near standstill
• significant vertical component to trajectory
• easily crater
• unable to react to cappers who juke

Boost core + combo boost

• 63% damage
• brings you to ~160 m/s from a near standstill
• you have complete control over angle of trajectory
• enough health left over (46%) for another combo boost or boost core use, which can be used to go 180-190 m/s, or to change directions in response to od juking, etc.

The same argument you made here can be said about chasers having cores, in which case chasers with cores are at more of an advantage anyway (when chasing).

I don't follow that logic.

Also, I think you're forgetting that there are also rocket jumps in this game. You can gain plenty of speed with boost core and rocket jumps without having to use combos.

 

[Jaymyster]

I hesitated even responding to that, because I knew someone would go off topic with it. Boost core+nades may definitely have more of an advantage with changing direction, but others are able to get the job done perfectly fine or better with just nades (not necessarily super boosting) while using OD for quick returns (me). Regardless, let's stay on topic please

 

[Gheist]

[...] Extremely opinionated [...]

But true.

 

[SNAKEOPS]

I hesitated even responding to that, because I knew someone would go off topic with it. Boost core+nades may definitely have more of an advantage with changing direction, but others are able to get the job done perfectly fine or better with just nades (not necessarily super boosting) while using OD for quick returns (me). Regardless, let's stay on topic please

Extremely opinionated

It's actually true, the devs had the boost core intended as a training wheel, that's all its purpose is. Buffing the boost core to have a super boost option would make boost nades even more obsolete. Hell, right now it has an unintended advantage. If you do press R with boost core WHILE boost nading at same time leaves you with 50%, which is one more or even 2 more boost nades if done right.

Now, I see players who always BARELY get 200+ while grabbing flag getting the flag at 300+ with shield and boost core now.

Here are the most important reasons why I'm against the idea of super boost with boost core.

• It's right now, the ONLY thing separating the boost nade from boost core.
• It's actually a bit hard to chase efficiently with super boost nades, some of the disadvantages are what a20 stated above, unable to change direction with jukes, easily cratering, and also the fact that if you hit the nade boost a few angles off behind you, you get sent in the wrong direction. Not to forget, super boost ALWAYS gives me more vertical speed than horizontal speed so it makes chasing a fast player hard.
  
• If boost core gets super boost, it wouldn't have the same disadvantages super boost nades have. All you have to do to avoid cratering from high vertical launches is just aiming straight at the capper horizontally, and you wouldn't have to worry about hitting the nade boosts at the wrong angle, since all you have to do is point your reticle at the capper's direction and voila.
• Let's not forget, since super boost gives you more vertical distance than horizontal really, with boost core, all you have to do is just aim straight and it'll send you flying over there. For example, it's really hard to get base to base in nivo with only 1 super boost nades, since you WOULD get really get far vertically, but not horizontally. With super boost core? Just press R and you'll be at enemy base in 2-3 seconds.

 

[Jaymyster]

It's actually true, the devs had the boost core intended as a training wheel, that's all its purpose is.

We need to stop making blanket statements about what things are for because they make us blind to other perspectives. Yes this can definitely be seen as one of the reasons this was added, but like I said before, for many other players boost core is the door opener for other nades to become worth sacrificing your core for. And because the boost core falls well behind boost nades, many players don't even begin to consider the option of using other nades.

Buffing the boost core to have a super boost option would make boost nades even more obsolete.

Boost nades will most likely always remain the supreme way of chasing due to 1. the lack of cool down and 2. the wide range of boost that the player has control of with them 3. the ability to use cores (OD), which is definitely more useful than any nade could ever be when chasing.

Hell, right now it has an unintended advantage. If you do press R with boost core WHILE boost nading at same time leaves you with 50%, which is one more or even 2 more boost nades if done right.

I wouldn't even see something that consumes both your core and grenade slot for the purpose of boosting to be unintended. If someone chooses to do all they can in creating a class for the purpose of boosting, they should expect an overall more efficient boosting experience. That's their sacrifice imo.

• It's right now, the ONLY thing separating the boost nade from boost core. (super boost)

If you look at both of them in terms of definition, you could say it's the only thing, but my quote above clearly explains why not. Remember, what I am suggesting is another option of higher speed for the boost core, in which the devs are fully in control to which extent they would decide to make that increase and how much more of a health sacrifice there would be. I'm not necessarily promoting a boost nade competitor, but more so another option for boost core so that the choice of frags/emps (and hopefully other nades) in-game become more worth it. (even if it required a higher level of health sacrificed to speed gained)

When it comes to the choice of having more-efficient boost nades and cores, or less-efficient boost core and the choice of frags/emps, most players make the choice of having cores unless they just really enjoy using frags like me.

• If boost core gets super boost, it wouldn't have the same disadvantages super boost nades have. All you have to do to avoid cratering from high vertical launches is just aiming straight at the capper horizontally, and you wouldn't have to worry about hitting the nade boosts at the wrong angle, since all you have to do is point your reticle at the capper's direction and voila.

I'm not suggesting an exact copy of the boost nade's super boost, just ANY other option of faster travel than its current petty boost. Sure it can be easier in the sense that you're looking where you're going (which is also why I suggested a small time-slot idea for super boost), but that's literally it's only advantage in comparison to no cooldown and the use of a core. Boost nades will undoubtedly remain a more efficient way of getting where you need to go faster and traveling further.

• Let's not forget, since super boost gives you more vertical distance than horizontal really, with boost core, all you have to do is just aim straight and it'll send you flying over there. For example, it's really hard to get base to base in nivo with only 1 super boost nades, since you WOULD get really get far vertically, but not horizontally. With super boost core? Just press R and you'll be at enemy base in 2-3 seconds.

This is a quite an over-emphasis on how difficult it actually is to super boost nade to the other base in nivo. It's the smallest map, the expectancy of most people who want to get to the other base on nivo should be 5 seconds or less in urgent situations. A super boost on boost core might be more of an advantage on this map realistically because of how small it is, but on larger maps where there's more distance to chase, it will most likely remain clear that boost nades are superior. If anything I see it as a more clear representation that we need another boost option for boost core on nivo seeing as boost nades allow players to easily travel from top of alpha side to top of beta side. While with boost core this isn't possible without a rocket jump.

 

[scoot]

I hesitated even responding to that, because I knew someone would go off topic with it. Boost core+nades may definitely have more of an advantage with changing direction, but others are able to get the job done perfectly fine or better with just nades (not necessarily super boosting) while using OD for quick returns (me). Regardless, let's stay on topic please

Fair enough, but if you make a false assertion, I'm going to call you out on it.

Anyway, not every class combination should be viable in every situation. That's the entire point of having classes in the first place. It's perfectly ok that boost nades are necessary for chasing. Frags and emps can be effectively used by offense or stay at home defense, but chasers should stick to boost nades. The reason we don't see too many people using frags and emps is that we generally don't have full games with all the positions filled. When you're playing small games where the primary dynamic is between capper and chaser, then of course most people are going to be using boost nades. Larger pugs usually have a few people using the other hand grenades.

I think this is reason enough not to include a second-tier boost, but I also have balance problems in mind. If you're still not convinced, I can type those out.

It's actually true, the devs had the boost core intended as a training wheel, that's all its purpose is.

It may be true that it was intended as a training wheel, but it's certainly not limited to that. I mean, I doubt the devs knew that dodge would become the best core for grabbing loose flags when they implemented it.

Hell, right now it has an unintended advantage. If you do press R with boost core WHILE boost nading at same time leaves you with 50%, which is one more or even 2 more boost nades if done right.

Unintended or not, I don't see a problem with this. The combination of two means of acceleration is obviously going to be better than just one on its own. It's like how you can do rocket jumps or combo boosts on their own, but when you do them together, you get a superboost.

 

[Jaymyster]

Anyway, not every class combination should be viable in every situation. That's the entire point of having classes in the first place. It's perfectly ok that boost nades are necessary for chasing. Frags and emps can be effectively used by offense or stay at home defense, but chasers should stick to boost nades. The reason we don't see too many people using frags and emps is that we generally don't have full games with all the positions filled. When you're playing small games where the primary dynamic is between capper and chaser, then of course most people are going to be using boost nades. Larger pugs usually have a few people using the other hand grenades.

I think this is reason enough not to include a second-tier boost, but I also have balance problems in mind. If you're still not convinced, I can type those out.

I apologize for initially bringing this suggestion up with the topic of chasing attached to it, I know boost nades are very central to chasing and I should have known that bringing up the topic of a super boost option for boost core along with chasing would probably make most people react defensively. Although this idea would probably aid those who desire to chase without boost nades, that's not my primary motive behind this. I'm perfectly fine with boost nades being necessary for chasing (and I'm sure it would stay that way even if this was implemented), that's how it should be. But there are many times when you simply want to accelerate at a much faster speed with boost core in urgent situations; and if a rocket jump would be required every time to carry that out, why make players have to go through an extra hassle every time? If a superboost on command seems too rewarding, why not make it a timed opportunity? (consequences for failed attempts?) There's no reason to not have a second-tier boost for the purpose of more efficient travel in that aspect. And even if boost core WAS to hypothetically become more useful than boost nades, we all KNOW the devs would undoubtedly nerf accordingly soon after. It just wouldn't happen

 

[SNAKEOPS]

. And even if boost core WAS to hypothetically become more useful than boost nades, we all KNOW the devs would undoubtedly nerf accordingly soon after. It just wouldn't happen

Why would any other positions than chasers need a super boost core? Can you give me any scenarios in which super boost core would be useful for non-chasers other than the fact that it would allow them to quickly get to enemy base and kill enemy capper/ or e-grab?

 

[Jaymyster]

Why would any other positions than chasers need a super boost core? Can you give me any scenarios in which super boost core would be useful for non-chasers other than the fact that it would allow them to quickly get to enemy base and kill enemy capper/ or e-grab?

You know I'm talking about an extra ability for boost core, not a super boost core right? How can you ask me for any scenarios while Xing out two of them in the same question for no reason? There aren't any specific scenarios needed to reference when a player wants to get to another location faster. People want to get from A to B faster all of the time, B can be an enemy e-grabber or even the position where you start your route, maybe you hit a bad hill and you need to make up for it, it's just always more convenient when you can travel faster. Just like how you can choose to combo boost closer to your body to go faster, there should be at least one other option for boost core.

 

[scoot]

But there are many times when you simply want to accelerate at a much faster speed with boost core in urgent situations; and if a rocket jump would be required every time to carry that out, why make players have to go through an extra hassle every time?

Having to boost and then rocket jump might be more of a hassle then just pressing a button once, but it has all the utility of a second-tier boost core and more. You can angle your rocket jump to adjust the health-speed tradeoff. I do think it's a decent idea, but I don't think it suits the current version of legions. A super boost option for boost core wouldn't really provide any extra functionality that you can't already do with something else in the game, and it'd be difficult to balance when it comes to chasing. Maybe if the devs working on Project Z can consider this while they're still designing and balancing cores/classes/perks or whatever, it could be implemented effectively in that game.