Ignorance - The downfall of Legions

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Kissyface_r0x

Private Tester
A recent in-game conversation has rekindled my frustration with this community regarding pickup games and has brought me to the conclusion that

I am quitting pickups.

My initial question was, what makes one map better than another? They are all different and I see a fun, new, and exciting challenge on each map. The problem with the community at this point, is that they haven't realized the joy of variety and challenge. As the saying goes (and i was ironically kicked from a server by Mabel for saying this) variety is the spice of life.

The argument I hear so very often is that frost and zenith are the best maps, therefore we should only play those since playing any other map would result in a "terrible" game. After delving deeper into the reasoning behind this, I only found more reasons why we should NOT limit ourselves to just those two maps. During my conversation with Siper, he explained core as an example, and how LO are practically obsolete on that map. Although I agree, this only strengthens my argument. The fact is that each map is different and therefore requires different types of game play. That's what's so great about playing different maps, because we can begin to stray away from the conventional 4O 3D strats and actually learn to adjust our strategy to each type of map we play.

The reason PUGS on maps other than frost and zenith arent always as enjoyable as they could be is because we treat EVERY map like it's frost and zenith, with the conventional 2LO 2cap 3D strat.

In this community's current state, we are simply afraid of change and afraid of a challenge. Playing a different map WILL be challenging, because not only will a each player have to adjust their individual style to fit the maps, but the entire team must work together to figure out the best strategy for each map as well.

BUT WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF ANYTHING IN LIFE WITHOUT CHALLENGES?

And here is where my rage begins.

I blame a significant portion of the current state of this community on the developers, particularly the ones who help set up the pickups. The one's who wont allow us to try new things because they themselves are afraid of a challenge. Whether they see it or not, this community looks up to them and acts accordingly. When they hear the devs trash talking every map, they themselves begin to doubt the legitimacy of those maps and start trash talking as well.

THE MOST FRUSTRATING PART OF THIS is when I volunteer as a captain, win the coin toss and choose a map other than frost or zenith
AND I AM DENIED BY WHICHEVER DEV IS STARTING THE GAME AND AM FORCED TO PICK EITHER FROST OR ZENITH, OR HAVE ONE PICKED FOR ME.

SO: Why does the legions team even bother developing new maps if they wont allow me as a captain to pick them for a pickup game?
Does anyone else see the glaring hypocrisy here?

That's what frustrates me the most. Not the ignorance of the community, but the ignorance of the developers. I dont see this problem going away anytime soon unless they change their attitudes.

I have not given up on this community, or else I would not have spent my time writing this. I have faith in the individuality of the members of this community, and that they will stand up for this problem with me. I only hope that a developer will see this and also see the errors of their ways and take proper action to fix the problem.

I'll still be around because I love the game, but I'm done with pickups for now. Call me when one of the devs is man enough to start a pickup of this nature, and enough people who are looking for a real challenge are willing to play.

*EDIT
I just want to make it clear to everyone that my sole attempt with this thread is to try to bring the community (devs + members) together to be more experimental. With that being said, I really appreciate the positive response and that even the criticism seems to be in a constructive demeanor (as well as the excessive use of pictures to express one's opinion? guess it's just an internet thing)

As I've said to Siper, I'd rather play new maps for a month even if they failed 99% of the time then play the same map every single time. But the fact is, that's not an issue. The maps WONT fail as much as believed because the game is only as good as the players who are playing, the maps effect both sides (pretty much) evenly.
You'll never move ahead by just staying content with the same routine. If we want to make this game better and more enjoyable we are going to have to be willing to try new things, knowing that they may fail but our motivation will come from the knowledge that they may also SUCCEED
 

RainPilot

stinky bear
tl;dr
I am quitting pickups.
No variety of maps
Unfairness in community etc
In this community's current state, we are simply afraid of change and afraid of a challenge.
ignorance of the developers.
Not given up, change your ways or they will lead to your doom.

Anyway, I totally agree kissy, although some people just had a long day of work/school and want what they usually have in legions: an exciting game on frostbyte.

Also, what pickups lol?

Btw: Thanks for pointing this out, if anyone else pointed this out, they'd be instantly shot down because they have no say in the community because they lack skill or usefulness. You're welcome in the vV ventrilo (qqboutleejunzvent).
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
Yar, Seymour rarely plays pickup games (too hectic with the family to really commit to a full game), but I'll yell at the devs to experiment more.

Edit: So, apparently my headset's kinda borked at the moment, so I had to send angry text instead!
 

Buhlitz

Member
lol, still just frost and zenith huh?

That is a shame, I like all of the maps with the exception of Blade run and quarry.
 

Xtreme

shaska's bff
i-know-that-feel-bro.jpg
 

Fixious

Test Lead
Having devs change the map you picked is pretty douchey. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of players agreed with his decision...
 

DeadGuy

Legions Developer
I don't really see how a dev (or a PU admin for that matter) can just dismiss a map pick on his own. If everyone in the channel is in disagreement and refuses to play a specific map, then in order to keep the game going I can see the need to rechoose a map. That being said, I think doing experiments for maps and trying new things is important and players should try to be a bit flexible. But majority rule is important for random PUs as it's just a bunch of people trying to have fun. I'll try to encourage some diversity now if I see a PU going down, but without support it's up to the crowd in the end.
 

DeadGuy

Legions Developer
I heard that Legions is a community game, run by 3 people. That makes sense right?

Edit: So don't bother putting your opinions on here, it won't really matter, they don't actually listen to the community.
Who is "they"? I do believe I've quite openly asked people to respond and put down feedback because we do actually read everything and gravitate towards the community. There is no reason to believe we are wishing to play by ourselves in all these servers and are ignoring anything you guys say. If anything, more could be said and the questions we raise in threads could be answered more thoroughly.

Edit: Also, if you have questions about specific issues I see no reason not to post them in the forums so they can be answered. I thought we had been doing well in that regard.
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
I think people need to stop whining about map choice. If I read Kissy's thing right, the captain who wins the coin flip picks the map, people need to just go with it and shut up. Its only 25 minutes of their life. One thing about flexible strategies, though. If one team has some great snipers, and the other team captain wins the coin toss, he really shouldn't pick either zenith or frost because those are the strongest setups for snipers with long flying approaches all while in line of sight from practically anywhere in the base. A map like the one that was released into TDM beta at the same time as Sleepwalker but isn't (I don't remember the name) is a little rougher, you need to know the team and the maps and figure out the strengths, not just go with the traditional maps.
 

Dacil

Member
finally, someone else sees...and no worries, your decision is a very good one



THE MOST FRUSTRATING PART OF THIS is when I volunteer as a captian, win the coin toss and choose a map other than frost or zenith
AND I AM DENIED BY WHICHEVER DEV IS STARTING THE GAME AND AM FORCED TO PICK EITHER FROST OR ZENITH, OR HAVE ONE PICKED FOR ME.
and they wonder why they can't get people to captain.............................................. ....................................................................... ...... .... ... . yeeep.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
I know the feeling bro! I've captained before and been shunned away from playing maps like stygain or forgotten before by the crowd, and the captain pick wasn't always law. As Application said, we do play maps like gorge and elegiac, but not enough in my opinion.

Another issue I'd like to raise though is the amount of players on some maps in pickups. 9v9 on frost?!? We can easily have a 9v9 on core, forgotten, zenith, fallout etc. Although Application did pick gorge in fairness, the team sizes went up to 10v10, way more than the map should take. The final score line was 10-2 to my team, and me and Application are experienced captains. I begged with him to change the map, but alas, no change happened, and in resulted in an easy win for me.

As for the developer changing the map pick, just some lousy Americans again.
 
I know the feeling bro! I've captained before and been shunned away from playing maps like stygain or forgotten before by the crowd, and the captain pick wasn't always law. As Application said, we do play maps like gorge and elegiac, but not enough in my opinion.

The other day, you were the one complaining against Application that he had chosen Gorge, so I don't really see why you are saying this.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
The other day, you were the one complaining against Application that he had chosen Gorge, so I don't really see why you are saying this.

....

Read the below bit, I was upset with him not because he had chosen gorge, but he had chosen gorge with some many people playing it. It's not a 10v10 map.
 

Fissurez

Puzzlemaster
....

Read the below bit, I was upset with him not because he had chosen gorge, but he had chosen gorge with some many people playing it. It's not a 10v10 map.

its on the large map rotation servers as well, while being the same size as frostbyte.
 
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