A Change in PUGs

We need command stations imho.




I actually think you stumbled on a good idea here. If those that weren't picked were put in a "leftover" channel, or a substitute channel then the captains from the next game had to choose from that channel first. It would ensure that more people get to play once every game. Personally I'd like to see this implemented, might have todownload ts again.

-Frost
I'll put the sub channel in and introduce it in the next set of PUGs. I'll also try to lock the channel at 14-16 or 18 depending on the amount of players we have. The only thing I'm afraid of while doing this is if the subs just end up leaving because they don't feel like waiting, then when we need one, noone's there. Far too many times we do need subs and people who maybe weren't picked leave and miss out a good game. This happened just last night, actually, when we had an odd number of players and couldn't find another to play. I told the person left out that we'd definitely get him in the next game, but he left anyway. Moments later one of my players goes "I have to leave" and we had to wait until someone else showed up to sub.
 

Frost

Member
I'll put the sub channel in and introduce it in the next set of PUGs. I'll also try to lock the channel at 14-16 or 18 depending on the amount of players we have. The only thing I'm afraid of while doing this is if the subs just end up leaving because they don't feel like waiting, then when we need one, noone's there. Far too many times we do need subs and people who maybe weren't picked leave and miss out a good game. This happened just last night, actually, when we had an odd number of players and couldn't find another to play. I told the person left out that we'd definitely get him in the next game, but he left anyway. Moments later one of my players goes "I have to leave" and we had to wait until someone else showed up to sub.

Well it's understandable I mean, you pretty much sit there thinking "oh, so I suck" for the next 20-40 minutes. I just think no one should ever have to sit out twice, which is a relatively frequent occurance. If you do make a sub channel for a PUG tonight, or whenever you do it; try having the players stay in there for the picks for the second game, and choose them first.
 

WildFire

Warrior of Linux
Well it's understandable I mean, you pretty much sit there thinking "oh, so I suck" for the next 20-40 minutes. I just think no one should ever have to sit out twice, which is a relatively frequent occurance. If you do make a sub channel for a PUG tonight, or whenever you do it; try having the players stay in there for the picks for the second game, and choose them first.

Happened to me when I stayed up and tried to play some American pickups. 3 times in a row while I was left there and other Euro's where picked and thus later took the mick out of me for not being picked. It was not a nice experience. The funny thing was that I had stayed up and played some American pickups before often scoring a decent amount of points coming in the middle, even with ping. Imo, Capping is the least ping dependant position.

After this I showed up the next day, 2 times in a row, wasn't picked. Haven't stayed up and tried to play an American pickup since. Especially seeing as the pickups are around 12 - 2 am for me.
 

Synista

Member
The funny thing was that I had stayed up and played some American pickups before often scoring a decent amount of points coming in the middle, even with ping. Imo, Capping is the least ping dependant position.

Points doesn't mean skill, you can get 1000 points but may not of played as good as someone getting 200.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
Well it's understandable I mean, you pretty much sit there thinking "oh, so I suck" for the next 20-40 minutes. I just think no one should ever have to sit out twice, which is a relatively frequent occurance. If you do make a sub channel for a PUG tonight, or whenever you do it; try having the players stay in there for the picks for the second game, and choose them first.

Ya, I think a rule should be that nobody should sit out twice. I'll try and make that happen.
 

OmniNept

Actionaut
Except for Floks. Floks should sit out on ALL OF THE PUGS.

WHAT IS OUR OFFENSE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNG?!
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
Alright, I read over the thread again and found some stuff needing to be improved/added/fixed:

1. The fact that many people are not picked for multiple games at a time. For people who are not picked one round, they should have a reserved spot in the next game, no matter how many good people there are in the channel.

2. Our attitude towards newer players. I've seen it improve somewhat over the past week or so, but we can all use some improvement. Cruelty to new players is unacceptable.

3. Correcting team balance. If you see a team overly stacked, make necessary trades to try and even the teams as much as possible. Or go with my idea and say that the team being stacked against wins if they get one point.

4. A slightly tweaked captain system. Captains should cooperate rather than picking teams to win. Yeah, you can pick good players, but try to get new players into the mix, too. (At least two? Depending on how many good players/actual players in the channel there are)

5. Players who show up late to a pickup game while the players are still being picked need to wait until the next game.

Pickup games are a competitive environment, like Homie said. However, some of our community members want to learn and improve in hopes of playing as the same level as us some day. Others just want to have some fun playing the game. Why deny newer members this chance?

The points listed above aren't official rules without an agreement from the community. I would like to see these points recognized and used during pickup games.

Of course, there are things that can be added, removed, or editted. If you have something else to add, or if you think these points can be improved, let me know.
 

xchris2168x

New Member
Being relatively new to the PUGs, I have a few things that I would have liked to have seen coming in...

1. Timing. This will get easier as we get more players into the community.. but with PUGs taking 20+ minutes, having no real start time can be really confusing/frustrating to the new player. Maybe we can agree on a nightly time when the captains will start picking teams for game 1 and post it on the forums/TS3, so that way people can be ready and prepared to play at that time. This could also lead to greater turnouts, which = more PUGs (more opportunities to play...)

2. Gameplay. When I played my first PUG a few weeks ago, I had absolutely no idea what to do. I was told to 'LO'. Had I not looked it up on the forums (thank you Contingency for your great guide), I would have been completely lost. Even after reading, it still took a couple games to fully grasp how fast the game was actually being played compared to your average pub game. Perhaps we can get some of the leaders of the community to host training sessions for the new players, or maybe even some scrim teams/clans doing some community service?? (Who knows, you may find a new teammate :p)

3. Attitudes. The atmosphere in TS3 has actually been quite welcoming, there have only been a few times where I was yelled at for doing something wrong. But I think the good has outweighed the bad, and I've been able to enjoy my PUG experience. I think out of all the complaints I would have.. this would be last on the list. Besides, there are much worse arguments going on in the daily pubs than there is in a pickup.

Bottom line - I think the hardest part is the change of pace, which is more of a learning curve than anything else. If we can find a way to train newcomers (like myself), through video/written tutorials, training sessions, minigames, whatever we can think of.. it'll make the experience better for every player.
 

Dacil

Member
Alright, I read over the thread again and found some stuff needing to be improved/added/fixed:

1. The fact that many people are not picked for multiple games at a time. For people who are not picked one round, they should have a reserved spot in the next game, no matter how many good people there are in the channel.

2. Our attitude towards newer players. I've seen it improve somewhat over the past week or so, but we can all use some improvement. Cruelty to new players is unacceptable.

3. Correcting team balance. If you see a team overly stacked, make necessary trades to try and even the teams as much as possible. Or go with my idea and say that the team being stacked against wins if they get one point.

4. A slightly tweaked captain system. Captains should cooperate rather than picking teams to win. Yeah, you can pick good players, but try to get new players into the mix, too. (At least two? Depending on how many good players/actual players in the channel there are)

5. Players who show up late to a pickup game while the players are still being picked need to wait until the next game.

Pickup games are a competitive environment, like Homie said. However, some of our community members want to learn and improve in hopes of playing as the same level as us some day. Others just want to have some fun playing the game. Why deny newer members this chance?

The points listed above aren't official rules without an agreement from the community. I would like to see these points recognized and used during pickup games.

Of course, there are things that can be added, removed, or editted. If you have something else to add, or if you think these points can be improved, let me know.
i can agree with this, but one more thing....no bit**ing about how someone captains after they leave (keep the you know what at a minimum about a pug in general after it is over...its a game.... )
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
You make good points.

Gameplay. When I played my first PUG a few weeks ago, I had absolutely no idea what to do. I was told to 'LO'. Had I not looked it up on the forums (thank you Contingency for your great guide), I would have been completely lost. Even after reading, it still took a couple games to fully grasp how fast the game was actually being played compared to your average pub game. Perhaps we can get some of the leaders of the community to host training sessions for the new players, or maybe even some scrim teams/clans doing some community service?

I can agree with this. We can tell the newer players to just go to the enemy base and kill things or make e-grabs when we tell them to, but that doesn't always suffice. If I had more time on my hands, I would grab a couple of people and make video tutorials of every position. Although, my spring break starts on Friday. We'll see.

3. Attitudes. The atmosphere in TS3 has actually been quite welcoming, there have only been a few times where I was yelled at for doing something wrong. But I think the good has outweighed the bad, and I've been able to enjoy my PUG experience. I think out of all the complaints I would have.. this would be last on the list. Besides, there are much worse arguments going on in the daily pubs than there is in a pickup.

I agree that our attitudes towards new players has improved. I want us to be completely friendly, however. There should be no reason to criticize or blame a new player for "losing the game." I say this because I've seen it happen recently, even after many have agreed to improve. It will get better, though.

i can agree with this, but one more thing....no bit**ing about how someone captains after they leave (keep the you know what at a minimum about a pug in general after it is over...its a game.... )

I don't quite understand.

Updated the OP with the list of known issues.
 

Dacil

Member
There should be no reason to criticize or blame a new player for "losing the game." I say this because I've seen it happen recently, even after many have agreed to improve. It will get better, though.
yes you do know what i mean!

edit: that's an example of what i call bit**ing
 

Abandoned

Member
Gotta reward those newbloods:
1) For finding Legions: Overdrive,
2) Downloading the TS3,
3) Getting channel info,
4) Get decent to play in a PUG,
5) Getting a mic,
6) Participating in a newer environment.
 

Dacil

Member
7. putting up with us. :p
i guess you guys are worth putting up with..... haha jk i just want people to feel comfortable with being honest in a nice way to eachother's faces and if there must be a comment made without the person there for informative reasons (not gossip) make sure it's not cruel
 

Sharp

Private Tester
I think average-pu players just need to be more involved in general. And it needs to take less than 3 hours to play 3 maps. (establish captains immediately after the end of the map, even if picking won't commence for another 10 mins, more admins with server control, etc).

Captaining to win is fine, so long as the people are somewhat close in level at assessing skill.
And people should be given some leeway in who they pick. For example, I've been picked relatively late (in my humble personal opinion ;)), but as a result, I've also won 25 matches in a row. Unsurprisingly, captains with winning records (like Fire) pick quite differently from the average (won't name names, heh). Probably could have phrased this better but the point is some "outrageous pick" in one person's mind based on limited data could (not often) be a "better pick" in someone else's and usually is for winning captains.

If they aren't at similar picking levels, or it looks stacked to other would-be captains, they need to step up and at least mention it. If the captain still thinks he can do it, he should get his shot, but realize if he gets smashed, he isn't captaining for a while, and he needs to re-evaluate how he measures people's skill.

I'm not advocating strict rules, but rather, community involvement and a certain degree of leeway combined with common sense (and being told what the common sense is).
 
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