Weapon Tethering

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
When in another thread, I thought of this and made some mention of it, but I figured I should just make a dedicated thread for it...

Turrets have been suggested on multiple occasions, and while they bring some benefits to the table in regards to heavy defense power, they also bring drawbacks, specifically, they completely eliminate Legion's most important aspects: speed and maneuverability. Just like how tethering your laptop to your smartphone can give it capacities beyond the norm (such as internet in the middle of nowhere), weapon tethering works on a similar principle.

Located around a base would be weapon tethers, basically cables that a player may walk up to and access. Upon activating a tether, the cable binds to the central section of the jetpack of the player with a pivot and an arm off to the side that binds to the weapon itself so as to endow the weapon with certain benefits. Of course, since these would be physical tethering cables, you would be limited in how far you could go with one attached, but because of their flexible nature, a tethered defender would still be allowed to fly in their immediate area and dodge incoming fire, maintaining that ability that makes Legions what it is.

Benefits to Existing Weapons:
Chaingun: Unlimited Ammo and decreased rate of overheating
Laser Rifle: Unlimited Ammo, increased range, lower fog settings when using scope
Rocket Launcher: Faster Reload, increased AoE and transit speed
GL: Larger AoE

Aside from simply improving the power of default weapons, some tethers could potentially already have a weapon attached that can only be used while tethered, such as a plasma cannon or mortar, rather than having an actual turret which drastically impedes the movement of the user in a game where speed is everything. The following weapons would prevent you from switching weapons while tethered. Note that the weapons themselves are not critical elements to this idea, however the concept behind them is.

Heavy Tether-Only Weapons:
Mortar: High velocity explosive projectile with long range; power can be slid up and down to adjust distance with mouse wheel. (parabolic projectile)
Plasma Cannon: Slow energy projectile yielding a large explosion and energy loss to the target. (non-parabolic projectile)
Beam Dilator: Heavy beam weapon with the ability to focus the beam at various ranges using the mouse wheel. May be zoomed and has rangefinder to assist manual focusing (hit-scan DoT)

Now, should you attempt to fly too far from the tether's connection to the base, a few options arise:

1. The cable simply breaks
2. The cable detaches and retracts back to the base
3. You are unable to fly farther.

I'm personally inclined to option three, but when you decide to release yourself from the tether (or die), I'd suggest that the cable breaks and the HTO weapon (if that was what you were using) falls off and is just like debris where it slowly fades away...
 

Serket

Member
Really liking this idea of yours, combining more power to the weapons while still maintaining a bit of defensive and maneuverability options is key to legions as you say and this idea really integrates both nicely, so I hope the devs give this idea some serious thought, at least as an addition to the game in the future. Just one thing, I really don't get what it means the idea about the sniper rifle, can you please explain this a bit more? It's just that I'm not familiar with those terms.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
Currently, the LR is a 3ms boolean hitscan weapon, basically, it scans the line drawn by the gun for 3ms to see if it hits anyone. If it does, you receive the full force of it. If not, you get zero. Its all or nothing. A 6ms bhs weapon would do the same thing, only it would scan for 6 milliseconds, increasing the likelihood of a hit against a moving target.
 

Serket

Member
Oh now I get it. Well here's something I just came up with for the sniper rifle, two things actually, not that they're good but might as well make something of 'em.
One thing is taking the original reticule (but in a smaller more compact version) of the SR, and while being attached to a tether it could fire three simulatneous beams, one at each end of the reticule.
Another could be that the beam lasts longer like you suggest but it's also wider, of course increasing the area of effect for its blast.
Like I said not the best suggestions of all time but they might just inspire someone to make an actually good one.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
The problem with a triple beam (while cool looking), is that the model for the LR doesn't accommodate two extra beams. If we had a dedicated weapon for that, that would be pretty cool and that gives me an idea...

Any other comments on the subject of tethering players to reduce mobility some, but still allow them to be mobile turrets?
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
Okay, this is way sounds way better than turrets. Here's what I would say about the new advantages given to each weapon would be.
Chaingun: unlimited ammo, less spread
Rocket launcher: three times as many rockets, hire rate of fire and the rockets have a higher velocity
laser rifle: more distance, more powerful scope, no firing lag time.
If this hasn't come up in the Tribes import thread (Actually called As an old Tribes player, I would LOVE to see...) then this needs to get introduced. I love this idea.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
CG/RL: I'm fine with that.
LR: I'd say it needs a tiny boost to damage though, not just a range buff... If that was the case, then I'd be fine with leaving the duration as it stands now. My only concern is fog at that distance... Could you even actually see past a certain point? Perhaps it would have to reduce/kill the fog when fully zoomed, or you'd never hit anything at maximum range...

And in regards to moving to AaoTp,IwLts, this idea isn't from Tribes, so I don't think it really fits in there, so I haven't mentioned it.

At any rate, glad you like it :)
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
Well, the topic has changed in subtle ways and other ideas for adding depth to the gameplay were coming through, and I think this idea is awesome, so I have thrown it out there giving you credit with coming up with the idea. Perhaps with the LR along a more powerful zoom, has a more detailed HUD, because there are the squares around everybody, but they stay the same size and the people don't, so sometimes you have a square much larger than the people, so maybe, with the more powerful zoom, the HUD gives a more accurate depiction of where people are without having to cut down the fog or anything like that. Then, you can use that tether to see how the enemy base is doing, since the HUD can see through everything.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
I was actually working on a HUD that would work rather well for this before my laptop's monitor died a while back (still need to get that fixed lol).
The problem then is that how do you know where the person actually is? If you can't see them, you can miss by a mile and still think you're on target...

At this point in time, we can't change the HUD mid-game. I mean, sure, the reticle can change, but that's not important here. The engine doesn't support that at this point (and may never). Beyond that, I think that giving advanced information on targets with it is going too far... I mean, there are times where I've sniped people that are actually farther away than what my HUD will register as being in my line of sight. I don't think the HUD should change, I'd just say that you decrease the fog...

In regards to the other thread, I went ahead and posted there as well.
 

Mhi200

Member
The whole tether idea sounds great.

One thing though:

"Beam Dilator: Heavy beam weapon with the ability to focus the beam at various ranges using the mouse wheel. May be zoomed and has rangefinder to assist manual focusing (hit-scan DoT)"

Probably shouldn't be implemented for the same reason the laser rifle was nerfed, unless its pretty short range.
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
With a manual setup on that weapon you just talked about, Mhi, there would be a certain amount of balance with the player having to focus in the beam on a fast-moving target, so that the player is a sitting duck. However, that may be unbalanced towards the LR turret guy.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
Its true, the BD would be entirely dependent on skill... In fact, unless you can focus it precisely, you'd probably be best off flicking the mouse wheel forward/backward to ensure that they got hit by the focal point for some duration, however short; or more likely, just have the beam at maximum range so that the beam won't go through its focal point before it hits them... Idk, I came up with it based upon what Serket said earlier, and true, its not the best weapon ever, but it does the best job illustrating the use of the mouse wheel and is something that should be used as a tether-only weapon. That is why had the comment beforehand saying, "Note that the weapons themselves are not critical elements to this idea, however the concept behind them is."


EDIT: In another thread, this has come up, and it appears that people are interested in a non-corporeal energy cable instead. Opinions?
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
the cable could be changed based on location. If on a floating mobile base, and it makes more sense for the defenders to dangle and fire from that position, then a solid cable would work, but on a grounded base with more actual flying, it would make more sense to have the energy beam. Also, just another thought and one that should be intuitively obvious is that in order to disconnect you should use a command, like the G key instead of flying out of radius, because then the dangling wouldn't work and if things got bad but you wanted to use the tether still, you don't fly out of radius and then lose the tether.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
I was already thinking that you'd hit the same key you used to latch on...

It was suggested that the stream of energy actually was mass, it was just phased out. If that's the case, then we could make it so that if it comes in contact with a base or some other static object, it glows brighter and acts as a solid, thereby not passing through it, yet fire and players can still go through... How's that sound?

But I seriously do think that having a flying mobile base with players hanging below it would just be awesome... It was actually one of the first things I thought of, but I didn't want to post it immediately since I figured there might be some negative responses to it and I didn't want to drive away people.
 

mausgang

Puzzlemaster
The energy turning to mass around solid things sounds like an excellent solution, and I have to agree, a flying base with dudes hanging off and shooting stuff sounds completely awesome. That would probably have to be on an epic map with a larger gameplay.
 
Added thought: what if when you hit the full distance of the tether, it slung you with force in the opposite direction, allowing you to fire at an oncoming capper, then jet the other way, get blaste towards them and imediately unconnect tether, voila, chase. Would allow defenders using the turret a chance to leave the base after using the turret without having toget up to speed and then catch up
 

Mhi200

Member
I was already thinking that you'd hit the same key you used to latch on...

It was suggested that the stream of energy actually was mass, it was just phased out. If that's the case, then we could make it so that if it comes in contact with a base or some other static object, it glows brighter and acts as a solid, thereby not passing through it, yet fire and players can still go through... How's that sound?

Sounds great =D
 

Hypnotoad

Member
I love these ideas! It only makes sense having a home base advantage with a little extra firepower and perks.

Maybe have the tether restricts the users flight mobilty, like the Sentinel usually is, only the tether provides an energy duration bonus. Jet much longer but slower movement. There are always drawbacks when improving in one area, like the outrider for example. Faster and more agile at the cost of armour. With the tether, gain a boost to fire power but at a certain cost.
 

Volt Cruelerz

Legions Developer
Added thought: what if when you hit the full distance of the tether, it slung you with force in the opposite direction, allowing you to fire at an oncoming capper, then jet the other way, get blaste towards them and imediately unconnect tether, voila, chase. Would allow defenders using the turret a chance to leave the base after using the turret without having toget up to speed and then catch up

I'm actually working on a map design that would encourage this by having flying bases with wing like extensions with tethers on them that players could hang from. I don't really think the beam should be elastic though... I think it would just go to its maximum length and stop. My idea was that you could fly backwards up into the air and just let gravity and the tether do the rest to slingshot you. There'd be a learning curve as to when to release, but it could get some momentum behind you that you wouldn't otherwise have in some cases...

I love these ideas! It only makes sense having a home base advantage with a little extra firepower and perks.

Maybe have the tether restricts the users flight mobilty, like the Sentinel usually is, only the tether provides an energy duration bonus. Jet much longer but slower movement. There are always drawbacks when improving in one area, like the outrider for example. Faster and more agile at the cost of armour. With the tether, gain a boost to fire power but at a certain cost.

Glad you like them :)

Less thrust, more energy... I'd prefer it just stay the same as it still limiting you to a general part of the base, though this idea might be necessary for balance later on Idk...

The energy turning to mass around solid things sounds like an excellent solution, and I have to agree, a flying base with dudes hanging off and shooting stuff sounds completely awesome. That would probably have to be on an epic map with a larger gameplay.

Yeah, it would most certainly have to be... I'll try to finish drawing it and upload the picture in a dedicated thread.
 
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