Visual Differentiation of Bases

[Daphinicus]

Howdy, folks!

This is going to be a lengthy post, so let me apologize in advance. I'm a loquacious fellow, often to a fault, but it's a tough habit to break when I'm trying to be absolutely clear and argue the validity of a point at the same time. Please, bear with me!

Still here? Excellent! Let us begin...

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Playing Legions this past weekend was an unbelievable blast. I'd forgotten just how sheerly joyous the experience can be, and it's worth saying once again how thankful I am for the job the developers are doing.

I'd also forgotten just how poor a capper/chaser I am. I've never gotten very good at routes, and mastering them is unquestionably critical in any CTF game. So, with every intention of bettering myself, I hopped onto YouTube and started tracking down cap route videos. But I ran into a bit of a problem: It's tough as hell to tell which side of the map a video is being taken from, especially on maps that are pretty close to being symmetrical (but not so close that they have identical routes).

This made me realize something that's always bothered me: It consistently takes me a decently long while to orient myself on a map; to figure out which physical side of the map I'm on.

Now, a veteran skier won't have a problem differentiating one side from another and matching their routes appropriately. Likewise, Frost's curvature makes it inherently easy to see which side you're on. But for a player who doesn't have a great deal of skiing experience, it can be tough to spawn on most maps and remember which routes are appropriate to which sides.

Not using the classic color-vs-color team setup in Legions is understandable -- at these speeds and distances, you're basically tracking IFF arrows, and it's a lot more intuitive to remember "red is bad, green is good" than it is "I'm on blue, I should be shooting at red" and vice-versa. But that means you lose out on the differentiation of bases by color, and the juxtaposition of those intuitive IFF indicators against the unintuitive similarity of the bases is, well, a little bizarre. Let me be clear:Identifying which base is yours and which base is theirs is not difficult! But understanding which side you're on, contextually, is.

Humans are inherently visual and highly symbolic in nature -- that's why the IFF arrows work so darned well. But right now, as far as I can tell, we have two primary ways we can use to recognize which physical side of a map we're on:

1. Look at which team we're on and try to remember what the Alpha routes are vs. the Beta routes, or
   
2. Use your compass (which, now that I think of it, might not even be in the current build, but I forgot to check because I never use it), memorize which bases "point" in which directions, and use those directions as reminders.

Neither situation is visual; both force the player to do a little bit of mental gymnastics. Now again, this does not pose a problem for veterans. All you master cappers out there have enough experience to know which routes you should be taking as soon as you see the rolls in the terrain. But the learning curve in Legions is steep enough, and I believe this just adds to it.

What we need is a way to visually differentiate bases in order to help newer players build the mental maps they need to navigate the physical maps.

I have no doubt there are innumerable ways this can be accomplished, but here are a couple ideas:

• Integrate overhead maps into the game. This has a fairly small art overhead, but will require the code necessary to a) have the maps in the first place, and b) populate those maps with markers for players, bases, and flags. Once in, however, maps become quick-reference tools for players: at the start of a game they can open it up and see which side they're on (west/east, north/south, etc.), and then can use those maps to gain a better understanding of each level and help lay out their cap routes. (This is my preferred method. Overhead maps are universally recognized reference tools and people are used to using them to gain better understandings of their surroundings.)
  
• Create a greater level of visual distinction between the bases and buildings. This has, theoretically, zero code overhead, but would require a significant amount of work on the artists' parts. There are three options here:
  1. Add team-specific decals to the existing building skins. This would be pretty easy, but its usefulness in helping new players rapidly recognize which side they're working from is pretty slim.
  2. Create re-skins of existing assets. This is probably the best option, as it doesn't compromise base balance by inserting or removing struts and girders, but still gives newer players more visual cues to help acclimate them to their surroundings.
  3. Create new base assets that are generally similar and occupy the same fundamental footprint, but differ in architectural design. For example, you might have a "stripped-away" version of a building in which all its protective plating has been removed, revealing the underlying struts and mechanical components, and a "clean" version of the bases that hasn't been weatherbeaten at all.

Regardless of how the differentiation and contextualisation is accomplished, it would be, in my opinion, of great service to newbloods and those of us among the community who have yet to become route masters.

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Whew. /End long post. If you read it, I appreciate your time! If you didn't, I understand, but please try to refrain from comments based on only a subset of the post, without taking the whole argument into consideration.

Thanks a bunch, folks! See you out there,

Daph

 

[A2]

OR,
we could have the team name (Alpha/Beta) words carved on the front/back of the bases. And even in their particular color.
The maps on which this (daph's differentiation post) can be applied are Nivosis, Moonshine and Forgotten, because the bases look similar, and the map is almost symmetrical except for maybe few differences in slopes etc. The rest of them are easily differential.

I support.

 

[Serket]

Very nice observation and cetainly very valid points in your post Daph, and also very well explained too.
I can really relate to your concerns here, just remembering being a new player in core trying to figure out which base I had to go after a firefight and ending up in the wrong one a couple of times. Your idea of the overhead map I think is a good one, the only possible problem is that having a map always on screen reduces the line of sight a little but at least in my case I need as much free screen as possible to scan my surroundings and understand the situation, so a possible way to avoid this could be having the map associated to a key, like it was an item.
But about having visual differences in the bases I completely agree with you, it can really make a difference in telling which base is your and which is your enemy's. Another possible way I came up with reading your post that could benefit everyone even from lon distances could be outlying the bases with your team's color, or even with the green-red system. That way you can just look at a base and by seeing the color you can tell if you're going the right way or not. It would work the same as it works in the game crysis, where you select an enemy or a vehicle and it gets outlined with a bright line that allows you to spot them easier.
And one last thing, don't worry about making long posts, because the way I see it that is one of your strong points and being able to properly explain your ideas is a really good plus because it has more chances of it being noticed and adressed by the devs and being understood by the people reading it, so keep up your style.

 

[Daphinicus]

Your idea of the overhead map I think is a good one, the only possible problem is that having a map always on screen reduces the line of sight a little but at least in my case I need as much free screen as possible to scan my surroundings and understand the situation, so a possible way to avoid this could be having the map associated to a key, like it was an item.

I absolutely agree, and should have pointed that out; in order for an overhead map to have the necessary (and helpful!) detail, it would need to be big enough to really only be practical on keypress.

Another possible way I came up with reading your post that could benefit everyone even from lon distances could be outlying the bases with your team's color, or even with the green-red system. That way you can just look at a base and by seeing the color you can tell if you're going the right way or not.

You can already do this, to a point, by looking at the color of the flag stand symbol; I know that's how I orient myself in relation to the enemy's base, or my own. But this doesn't solve the problem of contextual placement in the wider map, since the enemy's base is ALWAYS red, and your base is ALWAYS green, regardless of who's Alpha and who's Beta.

 

[Homingun]

I think a really good solution for this is to add vibrant bands or red or blue to the base structures in each map depending on the side. If I remember correctly, mirage used to have this feature. This would make it really easy to tell what side one is on.

 

[Volt Cruelerz]

Reading through this, I was thinking to myeself, "just look at the surrounding terrain!" But then...

this does not pose a problem for veterans. All you master cappers out there have enough experience to know which routes you should be taking as soon as you see the rolls in the terrain. But the learning curve in Legions is steep enough, and I believe this just adds to it.

Which was responded to with a deserving *facepalm* because I thought back to when I started playing and how lost I would constantly get. Now, of course, that's not a problem anymore, but it was. For this reason, I think that there could be something done about it. A minimap in the corner of the screen would probably be the best way to do this (though it would take quite a bit of code). My concern at that point is that for those who want as much visual as possible, make it disableable and make the IFF readout when you aim at someone also display range (or you could do this by default). I chase a lot and if I just know their bearing and distance, I have a much better chance of heading them off.

Actually, putting it in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen would be good because a lot of the vets play in first person which means you can't see anything there anyways due to the gun.


In regards to putting the name ALPHA or BETA on a base... Not a big fan of it. Art won't work unless you look at it. IFF works better.

 

[By-Tor]

Excellent Point Daph. I'm in complete agreement to developing each team/base visually. I think this can enhance and develop the game's richness. My vote would be for a 'Team-based' logo/decal system to be applied to both bases and player skins. Yes, much like the Blood Eagle vs Diamond Sword in Tribes 1. I always liked seeing my teammates wearing the team colors and if the base and even flag reflect your team all the better!

 

[A2]

Or, there could be a small picture of that team-based logo that Bytor mentioned up there, just above the base. Like some sort of a hologram. [just like the flag, you can see it (the other team, that is) from your own base]. That'd make it quite easy to differentiate.

 

[Volt Cruelerz]

That might have worked with Quarry and the virtual lighthouses that the bases were, but not so much with the day maps...

 

[Piggeh]

I would be against changing the bases drastically. I don't particularly care about which I side I'm on, but I remember the route nevertheless. I think that the Legions community has to realize that the newbies that will actually stick to this game because they understand what is going on (and actually understand what friction is >.<) are not all that stupid. I don't think I remember my cap routes from which base I'm at; it's the area directly around the base that indicates what route to take. Let's look at the maps:

Frostbyte: If you can't figure out where you are on Frostbyte, a map where you can practically see the other team's base, there's an issue. Routes wise, it's pretty basic.
Nivosus: Again, very self explanatory. The other base is clearly in sight.
Moonshine: ^
Zenith Cauldron: I would be open to some sort of insignia/decal on the base. To a new player, Zenith can be extremely confusing, considering how large it is.
Gorge: No one is particularly familiar with Gorge (yet!) and as the bases are very similar in structure and the surrounding areas have some parallels, I think that a decal would be fine.
Core: I haven't played on the new Core yet, but I would also be partial to putting decals here. Core's bases are similar enough that a decal would be useful enough.

In all honesty, by pressing Esc one can clearly figure out which team, and therefore, which base they are on. It doesn't make any sense reworking code/devoting large amounts of time to a problem that affects a slim number of us. As I said earlier, those who will stick with Legions will, through repetition, understand the workings of the map, and by extension, the base.

 

[Daphinicus]

I would be against changing the bases drastically. I don't particularly care about which I side I'm on, but I remember the route nevertheless. I think that the Legions community has to realize that the newbies that will actually stick to this game because they understand what is going on (and actually understand what friction is >.<) are not all that stupid. I don't think I remember my cap routes from which base I'm at; it's the area directly around the base that indicates what route to take. Let's look at the maps:

Frostbyte: If you can't figure out where you are on Frostbyte, a map where you can practically see the other team's base, there's an issue. Routes wise, it's pretty basic.
Nivosus: Again, very self explanatory. The other base is clearly in sight.
Moonshine: ^
Zenith Cauldron: I would be open to some sort of insignia/decal on the base. To a new player, Zenith can be extremely confusing, considering how large it is.
Gorge: No one is particularly familiar with Gorge (yet!) and as the bases are very similar in structure and the surrounding areas have some parallels, I think that a decal would be fine.
Core: I haven't played on the new Core yet, but I would also be partial to putting decals here. Core's bases are similar enough that a decal would be useful enough.

In all honesty, by pressing Esc one can clearly figure out which team, and therefore, which base they are on. It doesn't make any sense reworking code/devoting large amounts of time to a problem that affects a slim number of us. As I said earlier, those who will stick with Legions will, through repetition, understand the workings of the map, and by extension, the base.

No.

I'd go into things further, but I already did. It was the first post in this thread. So instead,

No.

 

[Siper]

should be pretty simple to just make each base have different colors or shades?

 

[Ucantry2run]

Maybe something simple as a red and blue tint to the textures of the base. I'm a sucker for creativity, though, so I support Daffy's idea.

 

[TheAlchemist]

T:V had different bases to but not only in colour but also in shape I would love to see that!

 

[Redvan]

eventually you will need to learn the differences no matter what the color the base... In the same way you learn a cap route, you can't put a yellow brick road on all the cap routes to show players where to go, you just memorize the looks of the hills. I'm not sure how coloring the base is going to make a difference in that.

That said, I wouldn't mind a way of differentiating. Once in a great while I'll forget that I'm LOing in the enemy base, and start a cap route from there back to my base, then realize I was already where I wanted to be...

 

[Mhi200]

Frost already has some visual differentiation, showing this is a possible idea.

 

[LindN]

bring back the colour system and add colours to the bases? alpha/beta is quite annoying and you never really know who the messages are directed at.

 

[Diamondragan]

This would likely take a lot more effort, but what if players were given the ability to literally trace their own routes across a map? The trace would be like a permanent energy trail floating along whenever it was toggled. The friendly-side routes would be green and the enemy-side routes would be red, but you could only see routes that you yourself have traced and saved. Just a thought.

By the way, I really like your avatar pic, Daphinicus.

 

[Daphinicus]

By the way, I really like your avatar pic, Daphinicus.

Thank you! Although sometimes, I do feel like it's a bit too "feline Chris Hansen."

 

[LunarSolstice]

Thank you! Although sometimes, I do feel like it's a bit too "feline Chris Hansen."

Why don't you have a seat over there.