Time to Balance out the game. O vs D wise.

[Disci]

TBH i really hate the idea of turrets, its gonna mess up the game. Darn these tribes guys...like I said not all of us want this game to be tribes, i might aswell go download tribes now tbh.

I will use the fronts if they are working. For example on moonshine, if one of rj front routes work, i will continue to use them. Why waste time going on a long side route, when the front route is working find...isnt that just dumb. Yea Disci, i know you love side routes, but dont try making us all use side routes. I know side routes on almost all maps, but again why bother if the front route is working find?

Stygan is not hated because of the side routes, dont assume all cappers are lazy and cant be bothered to use a side route. TBH i dont know why its hated, i hate the overall design tbh, i dont like where the flag is at all.

Dont get me wrong, am not denying there are problems with the game.

Go on, download Tribes. Then come back and tell everyone that you've just realised that Legions and any other Tribes game out there are completely different games. No turrets, base assets, etc. will make this game like Tribes, ever.

Ask someone who is playing LD which ones are harder to chase down, OD front specialists or high speed(side, back, front, slitghtly left/right, above, under) cappers? Also I'd love to not being called "side route lover" as that is not true. I love to run routes which I find good.

"Stygan is not hated because of the side routes, dont assume all cappers are lazy and cant be bothered to use a side route. TBH i dont know why its hated, i hate the overall design tbh, i dont like where the flag is at all."

Maybe cuz you can't front OD cap it as well as on frost? After all chasers are killing anything that tries to OD cap there IF they watch out for incoming cappers.

 

[WildFire]

Couldn't agree more. Almost all euro pickups are on frost - if we get lucky and have enough players, we get to enjoy zenith. I really think we need to give gorge another chance, I feel like I'm the only one who likes that map.

Likewise, I tend to captain nowadays and when I get map pick I go for something completely different like stygain or gorge. However, I don't captain as often as I used to and people always groan when I pick either map, so sometimes I back out from it. When we do play the maps, I find that we have always have a great game for some reason - yet people always moan and groan about the maps.

 

[Gravis]

Do people like Hell even realize WHY this game was created? It wasn't created to become tribes, but it was born as a spin-off of the idea of skiing and jet-packs. That's about as close as the games come between another, except for the weapons (which can be found in many other FPS games) and various map influences. Besides that, adding turrets and the like will not turn this into tribes, but it WILL force offenses to think a little differently about their job. Even in this short era of stacked defenses, some people who are offense-oriented still whine if they can't do their easy capping or shallow dueling. Any change that makes what they want to do harder is an evil that must be punished.

Disci is quite right too. As a HOF, I have to pay more attention to cappers on side/back/up high routes than to ones I can already see coming up the middle. It might be more time consuming, but they're dangerous compared to the obvious routes. On the other hand, I do enjoy getting them to crater/splatter across my armor, lol.

 

[Synista]

Likewise, I tend to captain nowadays and when I get map pick I go for something completely different like stygain or gorge. However, I don't captain as often as I used to and people always groan when I pick either map, so sometimes I back out from it. When we do play the maps, I find that we have always have a great game for some reason - yet people always moan and groan about the maps.

That's because the game was great, but no one enjoyed it

 

[WildFire]

That's because the game was great, but no one enjoyed it

Well I certainly did. If you're having good games on them, but no one is enjoying it - then obviously somethings going wrong in your brain.

 

[Mahidhar]

It's not really a certain map's fault, if you think about it. Everyone liked Gorge at first, but hated it later, because it was too frequent. No matter how many new and interesting maps we get, they will get boring and annoying, if they become repetitive. That's why, sometimes, I go back to the first ever maps I played, because I used to love them in IA days, and spend hours practicing and looking for routes, in a private server.

Therefore, if you wanna conserve interest in maps, in the community, I suggest we escalate the vote-for-map option priority to above the creating-new-maps one.

 

[Disci]

It's repetitive only if you play it the way it repeats itself. Tho, whole game is repeating certain things to some extend, so I don't know what the problem is. Do you think Quake players dislike DM6 just because it's been played many many years and it gets repeatitive? No, cos it's a good map and always a pleasure to watch good players duel on it. I don't mean that Gorge is DM6 of Legions but you get the idea, I'm sure about that.

Therefore, if you wanna conserve interest in maps, in the community, I suggest we escalate the vote-for-map option priority to above the creating-new-maps one.

How many times it must be said out loud, that there are people making maps and other peeps making scripts etc. Making maps doesn't stall rest of the developement. What the *dance* is wrong with you people?

 

[Mahidhar]

It's repetitive only if you play it the way it repeats itself. Tho, whole game is repeating certain things to some extend, so I don't know what the problem is. Do you think Quake players dislike DM6 just because it's been played many many years and it gets repeatitive? No, cos it's a good map and always a pleasure to watch good players duel on it. I don't mean that Gorge is DM6 of Legions but you get the idea, I'm sure about that.

How many times it must be said out loud, that there are people making maps and other peeps making scripts etc. Making maps doesn't stall rest of the developement. What the *dance* is wrong with you people?

If making maps, doesn't really have to wait for the scripts, releasing new maps should. They can make the new maps and test them privately until the vote-for-map script is finished. This way no time is wasted, and the best results are achieved.

 

[Aeon Flux]

Im not talking people's skills here, how l33t you may think you are. Fact of the matter is, people run OD grab/caps all day with little to no resistance. Thats fun to you? Because of overlooked Defense in the Overall Balance of the Game? Makes it easy uh?

This IS a Tribes game. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, guess what? It's a Duck. And in this case it's a Tribes Game.

Get off your High Horse for a minute and actually listen to reason and logic. This game is no where near Competition Play, and those that do are just foolish.

My case here is for Defense = And there is little the D can do to prevent a inevitable OD grab. It's bound to happen, I blame the maps for this as well, shitty base layouts, flag placements. It's all setup for the OD capper against a D that has to many factors going against them. Which is where the Un-Balance comes in. Most likely on D you'll be chasing, why is that? Because the HoF is to busy dealing with harassing enemy. You'll also be trying to help fend off enemies from your Base. Yet, the O has "Overdrive" to just run straight through and grab your flag "un-touched".

Whereas D could put a MINE on the flag, turrets here and there. Then the HoF has a chance at standing his ground without having to OD into on-coming cappers.. But what do I know, right?

 

[Redvan]

The game is geared to much towards Offense, and thats fun to some extent. But any tribes vet would or should agree that its like a game of "Tribes for Dummy's". There's just no resistance at the base other than the human factor. On top of that, instead of chasing the Flag as a last resort, in this game its mandatory. You always have to chase because of the lack of Base D.

Defensive assets need to be there, Base Turrets, Mines.

And any good capper should be able to bypass both with ease, this will put an end to llama grabs by would-be cappers. Remember Raindance? The Rocket turret midfield, the Plasma turret on the base? Along with deployable turrets in the field and a mine on the Flag? A good capper could go right through all of it.

But if the capper got body blocked in anyway, the turrets did their job.

Should they be destroyable? Of course. As far as repair, let them auto repair for the time being. As long as the turrets are not being raped, they'll auto repair. Lets say 60sec. Gives the capper time to go in turret free. With that being said, bring back the Mortars, not some cluster bomb.

God Forbid, something like this gets put in place and mess's people's OD routes.

I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest of the thread... but as for this OP:

D is easy. O is way harder than D. The game is not geared towards O.

Also, I'm a "Tribes Vet", so don't waste my time by saying "you dont know what you're talking about" (as if being a tribes vet meant anything).

Should there be turrets? Only reason I see need for them is to help deter llama'ing. Have them only shoot at slow moving targets. There already is so much splash, D can quickly clear their base out when they want.

Im not talking people's skills here, how l33t you may think you are. Fact of the matter is, people run OD grab/caps all day with little to no resistance. Thats fun to you? Because of overlooked Defense in the Overall Balance of the Game? Makes it easy uh?

A large number of PUB players suck at the game. Running routes on them is easy no matter what. If you play vs a competent D, you need a good LO, or a capper will not get out (for the most part).

If they were to balance the game to accommodate for bad players, then when good players DO play comp, D will be OP.

Get off your High Horse for a minute and actually listen to reason and logic. This game is no where near Competition Play, and those that do are just foolish.

Your suggestion would just take it further.

My case here is for Defense = And there is little the D can do to prevent a inevitable OD grab. It's bound to happen, I blame the maps for this as well, shitty base layouts, flag placements. It's all setup for the OD capper against a D that has to many factors going against them.

1-2 LO is "many factors"? Especially vs a HoF and anywhere from 2-4 LD? If 1-2 LO are wrecking the enemy D, it's not because of a game imbalance, it's because the D just isn't good. There's really no way around that.

Which is where the Un-Balance comes in. Most likely on D you'll be chasing, why is that? Because the HoF is to busy dealing with harassing enemy.

Even with 1-2 chasers, you'll still have a HoF and at least 2 LD. Still plenty for an effective D. Plus, you need to think outside the box. Chasers aren't the only ones that return. If you already have LO over there, don't even bother with chasers, let the LO get the return. It all depends on the situation. A big problem I see in PUBs is ALL the D going on return, thus leaving our flag / carrier alone at base, = easy return or grab. That's not a game imbalance, that's a player knowledge/skill problem, you can't fix that problem with game changes.

You'll also be trying to help fend off enemies from your Base. Yet, the O has "Overdrive" to just run straight through and grab your flag "un-touched".

"Un-touched"? If they OD, they'll be 50% or less on health going out. If D is even remotely competent, they'll get a rocket on the flag just as the capper is coming through. Most cappers vs a competent D are going to die the second they grab the flag, or be a couple chain bullets away from death as they leave.

Now, if D is too busy "fending off enemies", they're not doing their job right. It's not difficult to be fending off enemies, and then launch a rocket at the flag as you see a capper coming in for a grab. Problem: Many PUB players aren't that competent. Which is fine, but, balancing a game based on player competency is not a good solution.

Whereas D could put a MINE on the flag, turrets here and there. Then the HoF has a chance at standing his ground without having to OD into on-coming cappers..

Who needs mines when you can just rocket the flag. Not to mention, if someone mines the flag, with the close proximity of D to the flag, it's quite likely that you'll just wind up harming your team more than a capper.

But what do I know, right?

I'd actually have to agree with that. No offense

 

[Aeon Flux]

Wont waste your time, but maybe try reading next time. Also, this with PUB in mind.

Care to elaborate on how D is easy there Redvan? Being a tribes vet and all, we could all benefit from your knowledge.

For Balance

 

[Redvan]

Wont waste your time, but maybe try reading next time. Also, this with PUB in mind.

Care to elaborate on how D is easy there Redvan? Being a tribes vet and all, we could all benefit from your knowledge.

For Balance

Sorry, just edited my post.

 

[Aeon Flux]

Your a tribes vet though right? You've gone through heavy D and now this game is easy to you?

You've said

D is easy
O is way harder

in a PUB?

easy when you stack teams maybe?

its a BETA, put your e-penis away and think about it is all im asking.

 

[Redvan]

Your a tribes vet though right? You've gone through heavy D and now this game is easy to you?

Doesn't have to do with being a Tribes vet actually, I know of a few players who have never played tribes before and can easily ruin some tribes vets in this game, while on D, with tribes vets capping. PUBs have too wide a variety of players to do any major balancing on. You have players that just play for fun and could care less how good they are, you have tribes vets that are good, some that aren't as good, you have people whos first FPS is Legions and they're good, and you have others who never get the basics down no matter how much you try to help them.

So, saying D needs a buff because in PUBs cappers can get in and out with little to no opposition is hardly a reason to be adding turrets. Am I inherently against turrets? No. But the reasons you give for them simply are not the case when it comes down to competent players vs competent players.

 

[Aeon Flux]

So its an exploit then to say, people use OD in a way to out do the D to the point of just disrupting the D? With the D having no way of actually defending itself?

Of course no one will say they exploit OD, because their to much of a pussy. And they think the game is fine. Does not need any work. As long as they get to keep exploiting the OD.

 

[WildFire]

its a BETA, put your e-penis away and think about it is all im asking.

I just want to add this, Redvan is being perfectly pilote and mature to you in these posts, and you're being the e-penis more than anything by insulting him just because he isn't agreeing with your point of view. While you do raise some good points, the game IS being geared for upper-end competition, getting new players and playing public guys comes as an after-thought.

While D and O aren't completely balanced, they're roughly the same and it really does come down to skill level on the opposing sides, like it should.

 

[Redvan]

You've said

D is easy
O is way harder

in a PUB?

In a PUB and PUGs, D is far easier to play than LO/cap (assuming you have a competent team put together in a PUG).

a. D respawns and is immediately back in the action.
b. Generally there is 1-2 more players on D than there are players on LO attacking.
c. Very few routes that D cannot see a capper coming on well in advance to take action against it (actually, I cant think of any routes right now).

easy when you stack teams maybe?

Nope, just little ol me.

its a BETA

Being in beta doesnt mean something thats not a problem should be fixed.

put your e-penis away and think about it is all im asking.

I thought about it, in fact, I've thought about this way back in the IA days, long before you probably were around. There is no epeen involved, I'm simply regurgitating the basics.

put your e-penis away

Yep, he's a youngin. I was MAing people in T1 when he was 6-7yrs old lol. I don't expect much.

So its an exploit then to say, people use OD in a way to out do the D to the point of just disrupting the D? With the D having no way of actually defending itself?

Of course no one will say they exploit OD, because their to much of a pussy. And they think the game is fine. Does not need any work. As long as they get to keep exploiting the OD.

OD is not an exploit no matter which way you use it. People can OD clear, or OD grab, both totally fine things to do, and both very easy to prevent. Chain them as they come in, splash them on the ground, they'll OD themselves to death for the last sliver of health they have.

OD isn't OP in the slightest due to the HP loss and reduction in speed. Most good cappers prefer to find routes that don't require OD at all, because they know if they OD vs a competent D, they'll probably die. People that use OD to clear the enemy off the flag, well, who cares, they're still just killing themselves and it's not hard to shoot a few rockets at the flag to stop the following capper. On top of that, not all of the D is cleared out by the OD wake. Someone else simply has to stop on to the flag if they really need someone standing on the flag. Myself, I don't even bother standing on the flag when I play LD, even if the HoF is blown off. It's way easier to just shoot the incoming capper then chase them out if you have to.

As for people thinking "the game is fine. Does not need any work." Take a poll, at least 70% don't think that... Anyway, that's an irrelevant point here, I've never said the game doesn't need work, I'm just saying the problem you see is an illusion.