Spawn Updates on Public Test

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Propkid

Member
This is indeed annoying, but heck limitations are what often makes a good gameplay. I'm not sure if everyone will get this comparison, but if we were all used to infinitive ammo and had it limited at one point we'd end up having the same sort of whine about the change being annoying and such.

LO baserapes will not happen due to this change, or if they will then the smarter ones will learn to play the outrider and the problem will be solved by the meta.

perhaps actually boosting defence as it will mean that they can suicide then in two seconds at full health be ready to receive a pass. Perhaps the class to spawn in should be Raider - Gunner as its a very general class and can be used for most things.
Because of the class being outrider the defence isn't that greatly boosted.

OD needs to disappear aswell.
Most of the OD capping- yes. OD- hell no.

Ahh, also I've got a small suggestion. Since there are people who are absolutely happy to play the Outrider with RL/CG it'd be nice to have the spawn class be an Outrider with only the RL and no CG. That way everyone has to go to the ammo station.
 

SeymourGore

Flatulent Cherub
lol and guess what,just as i change to another class(when i come in contact to the ammo box) the game faces an error and a window pops up asking me to "send report" or "Don't send" and then the L:O window closes.
So this update is just like killing the game for me :eek:

Please add your console.log into this thread, there seems to be a few systems suffering from this issue and we'd like to track it down (just paste its contents into pastebin then post in the thread).
http://forums.legionsoverdrive.com/threads/ammo-station-crash-when-in-third-person.2476/

Good feedback, guys. This is going to be one of the more important gameplay changes (if not the most important gameplay mechanic), so make your voices heard!
 

Disci

Old man
"Played few maps and I strongly dislike this change"

:rolleyes:

Ahh, also I've got a small suggestion. Since there are people who are absolutely happy to play the Outrider with RL/CG it'd be nice to have the spawn class be an Outrider with only the RL and no CG. That way everyone has to go to the ammo station.

No.

Bring on an equipment everyone needs. That's when everyone wants to go to inv when they respawn. Not because they are not able to chase without paying a visit at inventorystations.
 

zman

New Member
My problem is that it interupts the flow of the game and that you can *lady friend* points by killing people when they try to change classes. Just earlier i sat as sent with a grenade and killed all the people trying to change class at the ammo box. Its too much like tribes and i didnt like that system either because it creats a focal point for the people to go to and distracts from main objectives.
 

Karnage

Private Tester
I can see that this might have potential but it does not work as it is now. It favours people who like to use light classes. As a heavy, every time I spawn I have to go to the ammo box before I can get back to defence. If I was someone who liked using the outrider I wouldn't need to go to the ammo box at all unless I wanted nades. It is unbalanced.

I also have to agree with others that I do not like the way it interrupts the flow of the game. I play Legions precisely because of the speed and flow of the game.
 

Daharka

New Member
New SB ret is lovely.

The spawning on Eligiac is really annoying. I'm not familiar enough with the map to really know where everything is yet, but the only ammo station I was aware of was deep in the cellar and it was a pain to go there every time. Maybe it would be easier to just spawn there?

Otherwise not too many issues, although most maps at the moment are too open and have much of the 'faffing around' areas in tension/battle points. I reckon that if this game were to evolve in this direction then there will need to be many more 'inside' areas in order to get your stuff together.

I'm also slightly concerned about destroyable assets. I don't want to have an engineer class who's entire job is to go to assets and hit them with a wrench. I think this would have awful, awful gameplay. The two alternatives would either be having ANY class able to fix assets, at the cost of health/energy. Second, having no classes able to fix things and instead have some kind of commander/controller who manages all the bases assets and the fixing thereof.

This update did give me ideas for possible cores though:
-Gliding core
-Sacrifice Health to repair asset core
-Sacrifice health to destroy asset core

On a side note: some of the videos for the competition need to address llamaing. At the moment I can see newbie's being put off by being shouted at for something they've never been trained not to do.
 

w00tyou

Member
Making the big picture for you guys.
Invos. Will make the game slower for the greater good of base assets Generators, Sensors...You should all try to adapt to the game instead of complaining about something that is obvious.

This update should and will not go away. Lets browse the problems.

Definitions: Invos, (Inventory Stations)

Camping of the invos.
  • Add a bound around the Invo(a see through force field that blocks all splash), flag carriers are not allowed past boundaries, if the generator is destroyed then the bound is broken.
What if you're low on health so you hit ESC, press whatever loadout and head for you loadoutammo station?
I can easily see this getting abused.
  • If your dueling a person, or even just flying over, if he does that then hes can be killed 100% of the time. So i don't see any abuse.
  • Auto healing. People use it when their low on health.
Invo placement.
Another factor in map making is addressed where to put the invos?
  • It should take 15-25 seconds from Spawning to getting your loadout. Disci enlighten me on how long in T1 it takes to invo? Not LT :p
 

DeadGuy

Legions Developer
This is basically a test to see how fast the action can me maintained under the best circumstances. If players can function with a time delay in getting a loadout, then we can add in things like turrets, other assets, and make things destroyable (and repairable). Granted, the placement of ammo stations and spawn locations on some maps is not ideal at all. Maps like Frostbyte and Zenith might play alright but we would have to redo every base for every map to pocket the stations somewhere defend-able that players could still quickly grab their loadout. We already have a few new tower designs that fit this goal, but we wanted to check how you guys reacted to this in the first place.

So really the main test is, does the action keep up OK with this change on Frostbyte and other maps where the ammo stations and spawns aren't terribly placed? If things had to be defended, turrets placed around the base, sensors needed repairing, etc, then it would get even slower (and more tactical) than this. Currently, what is on public test does help with some of issues players had with snipers spawning in their loadouts, HoFs returning back to the flag stand instantly, and balancing out some of the defense and offense interactions. This is how we saw these things being addressed and at the same time allowed for more content and base assets to be added to the game, and that is what this test is about. We don't want to write a bunch of code and make art for assets to make a game that you guys eventually find out you don't enjoy. The instant action crowd and the tactical crowd have to have a meeting of the minds in this forum for us to create something worthwhile.

One thing I see as a problem currently is perhaps players should not spawn with the overdrive core, so cappers would be still be handicapped by not visiting a station and make chasing them down much easier or force them to take a longer route since they would not be able to overdrive back to their base. That would give defense more time to get their loadouts and prepare.
 

Mahidhar

Member
I think spawning without the Overdrive core, could be a good limitation, may be even perfect, but I really don't think that the default class should be Outrider. I'm fine with all the other limitations, you guys choose to set up, like access to specialty weapons(like Skybolt), limited ammo etc.

The reason I'm totally against the class thing, is because I believe that the player character is most important than anything in this game. The HoF is dead, there's an incoming capper, he respawns and he finds himself in Outrider. Same goes when someone needs to pass the flag, they require a damage absorber. Also, I think that the nonexistence of the Overdrive core in Sentinels shouldn't be implemented, as the class is mostly inclined to Defense and flag securing. Maybe weapon limitation, but not Overdrive core.

I've seen that some of my friends who've played today in the test servers, got fed up trying get to their intended loadout in time, and just played as Outriders. This is not the way, and people shouldn't be forced to use a certain class, so they can keep up with the speed of the game. Just think, how would it be, if Sentinels were made as default class? There would be hundreds of threads, made by Outrider fans, complaining about how lame and difficult it is, to get the class they want.
 

Ucantry2run

Private Tester
I'm still getting pretty fast gameplay, and that was on Elegaic. On Frostbyte its like its not even there, because you spawn right on top of the damn things. Its really not hard to adapt to the changes. Every game isn't supposed to be "easy," and people need to understand that. I'd even say that making the game more challenging makes it more fun. It seems like the only people that dislike the update are people who have general trouble in a game. This is where the game is headed, this is what was hinted at in Legions Overlive and the blog. I remember before everyone was all "wooo OD cores and turrets!!" And now there are complaints. Surprised? No.

The ammo boxes and spawns will be moved to more convenient locations. And I'm positive there will be new maps to focus on the slower paced Legions. Then there won't be anymore complaining about "I don't have time to get into my sentinel class ): ): ):" Before complaining after one day of the update being released, play it for five days, six days, a week. This trend of "complain as soon as it is released" has gone on far too long. Honestly, I'm tired of playing the same thing everyday. Sure, we can release new maps, weapons, classes, and cores, but how long will that last? This bigger update is supposed to give the game depth and move away from the simpler Legions:Overdrive, which I am all for.

Also, spawning without the overdrive core would be a nice update to limit the cappers. Maybe itll bring them down to the speed of the defenders, specifically sentinels.
 

Piggeh

Puzzlemaster

Ok, so the changes are good. its the stations positions and the starting ones that are goofily placed.

as it stands, the two most loved maps, Frost and Zenith, are relatively fine. The AS(ammo stations) on Frost are in the front; which is where most of the action takes place. They allow defense to get gear and be ready for the incoming cappers and LO that 98% (or so) come from the front. Zenith AS are out in the open and in the main chase/capper/defense positions on stand offs. They work too. Maps like Fallout and Elegiac(sp) have wonky, not working synergy with the AS ans spawn points. Fixing these would make the flow of the map better. The other maps pretty much fall under these categories. Fix the AS and Spawn points and we are golden for now.

As Contingency said, some maps are NOT designed for this system at all (Elegiac and Fallout). I think that when you want to change loadouts, you should have to visit the station. I also like Contingency's plan (see what I did there) for picking up ammo on fallen Legionnaires (I'm so punny) as well as the limited ammo spawn thingy. I found that on Elegiac, this severely decreased my response time to events happening around me. If a capper was coming in and I want to HoF, throw a grenade, snipe, etc., I have to go all the way to the ammo station to get what I want. While this could mean that teams might have to coordinate respawning (so as not to leave gaping holes in their defense) which admittedly, would be really interesting, I'm not sure that level of complication is necessary on its own. Once more things are implemented (OD Cores, base assets, etc) then maybe this system will work better.
 

Dimitryy

Member
i dislike the update (but like the idea of destroyable stations) , its so annoying to go to an ammobox everytime i respawned (and thats very very often). also, it interrupts the flow of the game and it makes the gamefeeling slow.

i would prefer to select my loadout before the game starts and if i want to change it, i would have to go to an ammo box to change it and when i spawn i get the new selected one instead of changing it everytime.
 

Fissurez

Puzzlemaster
NONONONONONONOOOOOOOOO

this won't work with the current bases!

This will slowdown the game as well, and I loved the speed of getting up and going.

dammit, my internet goes for 2 DAYS and you devs make a change I hate, with me unable to get a decent internet connection to be able to make a proper rant! :( :( :( :(

I can handle having to use inventory stations to change the class, then spawning in that class until i change using an inventory station again, that wouldn't be bad at all, BUT NOT THIS!!!

please dont do this :(

i will not look forwards to the day you tribes junkies will put this onto the live servers.

you monsters.
 

Sharp

Private Tester
Having played T1 base (1998), T1 LT (2004), and Team Rabbit 1 (2000) at a high level, I have a couple of thoughts. Given that this is clearly the direction Legions is going, there are a number of applicable parallels.

In recommending this game to other people, I've always found myself describing it as T1 LT with a twist. At high levels, both gameplays are incredibly fast-paced. But T1 graduated from T1 base to T1 LT because of a lower player count, the need for something new, and better web connections. However, at lower levels, I don't think anyone disputes LT is faster for the exact reason that there is no middle-man between the primary objective. It is pure flagplay, plain and simple.

There is an enormous difference in chronology between Tribes 1 and Legions. Whereas T1 sought to increase speed, Legions is trying to slow it down. I think it's an enormous mistake to ultimately throw out Legions as it stands now (LT version) and only present Legions base as the only viable gameplay upon "official release".

If T1 had come out with LT and base in 1998, which gameplay would have been more popular? Probably base, since it was actually competitively viable with garbage internet. People were not completely familiar yet with the now mainstream, ubiquitous instant-gratification shooter-game. That is what LT appeals to: instant gratification. There is far less wind-up to a play, far less timing required (again, at lower levels which inevitably is what most people play at); instead of 3 minute setup for a timed attempted grab, there are 6 plausible grabs in that timeframe. With internet now and experience from other games with transferrable skills, it's expected that people have the ability to chain. Can slower base gameplay survive in 2011? I have no idea. It could, with larger numbers of people to support big teams; 12 on 12 Frostbyte isn't quite my cup of tea. 12 on 12 Blade Run with assets might be it.

As it stands, the changes don't add anything aside from being a pain in the ass, but I can understand the motive for public testing them. I would be very hesitant to wholescale change every server, because while I enjoy T1 Base for nostalgia, deeper gameplay, and increased player support, it's far easier to start up a T1 LT game and get moving with fast gameplay. I only need half the players (10), half of which probably suck at base anyway because it's more stuff to learn. It is faster, on average, since high level play doesn't come around that often.

So please, save the current version of Legions as an LT version, and then implement a votechange option or different servers for different gametypes.

And where's the team rabbit?!??!? :p
 

Synista

Member
It's not even been 24 hours, you can't slam down on it without fully testing it thoroughly for a couple of days. I like it, it slows the game down. More time to think = Better gameplay IMO. I also think it's nice to add the only changing classes with Ammo Box. It's good because now when I LO I know if I kill someone, they don't have to wait 3.5 seconds just to respawn and fly away or kill me straight away, they have to go to the nearest Ammo Box and go back to their preferred class to kill me or get back on stand as HoF or even cap and chase.

I think that it's also good you basically made a Barebones class as the default when you respawn. This is good. To be honest, you're all complaining because you're probably too lazy to just fly to your nearest Ammo Pod just to go back into your preferred class; you may want it removed but by the looks of it... This is staying. It's the future. Yea, people don't like change, but change bring interesting and new things into Legions.
Also, remember the State of the Empire blog post. Legions is moving forward. Speed and flow will need to be sacrificed a little bit to allow for deeper gameplay. Look and plan for the future. Keeping the game the same pace won't allow the dev much room to work with.

Remember, look the the future of the game, not what is here and now.
^ This is right, and anyways, IMO slow and faced gameplay depends on the map, not because you have to take a few seconds of your "precious" time the change loadout.
 

GoodJobDino

Member
A lot of the spawns are a bit skewed for this as well I think. I am sure someone else addressed it, but sometimes you spawn so damn far away from an ammo station. Ridonkulous.
 

Arch

Legions Developer
I totally disagree with this. Ruins it if a chaser spawns and wants to jump into a chase when they have to go to a station to get their desired class. This is more of a menace than an improvement (if you want to call it that).
 
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