Client-side vs. Server-side Maps

[Fixious]

To date, every map that's been made by the community has been a client-side map (afaik). Client-side maps allow the map creator to create completely new terrains, change terrain textures, add new textures or skyboxes, new shapes, and new lighting. However, this also means that it must be downloaded by each player who wishes to play on it.

Server-side maps are different. They're created using an existing map and simply modify it without adding in anything new. It doesn't contain any new terrain, it keeps the existing textures, and it can't be re-lit to update shadows. However, you can move around any of the objects wherever you want to create a completely new feel and layout. You can import existing shapes from the Legions editor and relight them so they appear correctly. Best of all, it requires no downloading. Players can simply join the server and play the map.

While community map making is great, it obviously hasn't really taken off like everyone hoped. Server-side maps were (and still are) extremely popular in the original Tribes. Hell, they outnumber the original maps that came with the game. Defender has been the only one to experiment with this to my knowledge. He can alter skyboxes, fog, and other values without requiring users to download anything, as seen in this video. Having a server dedicated to client-side maps is a nice gesture, but ultimately pointless since no one has really bothered downloading them all.

A server full of server-side community maps could take off. I'm not saying it will, but it likely has a better chance compared to the current situation of map makers spending time on a map no one really bothers downloading. Client-side map making should only be done for map competitions. Everything else should be a server-side map from now on.

edit: Turns out Legions has a crappier map system than I previously thought. Ignore this, sadly.

 

[Defender]

I don't think you can just rename a base map, and use the old lighting file, and have it be client-side, because it always needs relighting, when I tested this..
Just tested it again, on Frostbyte, structures and terrain need relighting..
If the lighting was client-side like tribes2, sure we could make client-side maps as long as the terrain is not modified, and no new shapes, textures, or interiors, are used..
I think you can cut holes in the terrain, like tribes2, because that's just a setting in the mission file..
To most people back in tribes2, you weren't really a real mapper, if all you you do is just use base stuff...

 

[Jello]

Server-side maps are different. They're created using an existing map and simply modify it without adding in anything new. It doesn't contain any new terrain, it keeps the existing textures, and it can't be re-lit to update shadows. However, you can move around any of the objects wherever you want to create a completely new feel and layout. You can import existing shapes from the Legions editor and relight them so they appear correctly. Best of all, it requires no downloading. Players can simply join the server and play the map.

While community map making is great, it obviously hasn't really taken off like everyone hoped. Server-side maps were (and still are) extremely popular in the original Tribes. Hell, they outnumber the original maps that came with the game. Defender has been the only one to experiment with this to my knowledge. He can alter skyboxes, fog, and other values without requiring users to download anything, as seen in this video. Having a server dedicated to client-side maps is a nice gesture, but ultimately pointless since no one has really bothered downloading them all.

I've just tried several different ways to enter my own server will editing StoneHaven(it worked) the only problem in doing this server side map is to only move structures and filter relight it. Editing the terrain doesnt work, tried a couple different ways unless I saved it then you know you cant enter unless downloaded, I do agree server side maps would be an awesome way to go but there's really no way around the terrain aspect of it.

Client-side map making should only be done for map competitions.

No one uses the server anyway....most people I've seen on it is 3 if lucky 4. Only way people would use this server if we all (players who play) got on one day and tried each and every map once a day for 1 week. But I highly doubt that will ever happen

 

[Fixious]

Figures Tribes had a better way of supporting server side maps than Legions. Oh well.

 

[SNAKEOPS]

I like that the map makers in this community is putting their head together on this.

If this is possible, I would def play alot more server-side maps. I hate downloading, installing, and all that extra crap.

 

[Defender]

I don't know how hard it would be to move the map lighting back completely to the clients.
All the TGE engines, I ever messed with, had the lighting done by the clients on mission load, but that means much longer loading times, the first time......
I don't know if its like that on T3d.

 

[Jello]

In all honesty I'd be up for it any day but the lighting its just preposterous unless we were to cover the existing shadows with a different structure but that'd add more unnecessary structures to the map when its not really needed. I feel like the only way to make this easier on all of us and have the players download the maps would be when they try to enter the map/server a message pops up/ a link pops up and when they click it, it auto downloads and is installed into the live or game folder.... If I am mistaken is this not what Mod Generalization is for? or am I getting it mixed up with something that has not been thought of yet?

 

[GReaper]

Tribes 2 generated the lighting for a map the first time it loaded - after that it used the cache for it.

Not entirely sure why this changed, I'm assuming it was just a nice feature for T2 which wasn't needed for Torque games being distributed by their developers who aren't typically going to allow modding.

If all clients can reliably regenerate lighting then maybe it could be done? Needs someone with more knowledge of the consequences of the change though.

 

[Jello]

Not sure if you guys have heard of Urban Terror, but it has auto download. You simply join a server and it asks you if you want to download the map, then you play.
If that's possible to do for this game engine, I have no problem what so ever with setting up a place for maps to be stored on (web).

Would anyone like to test something like that out? I'd be of great help for us map makers and it would help out the community even more...if no one says anything guess i'll have to learn coding myself and experiment (only know java and html)

 

[Stubbsy]

Ran into a problem with my idea..
http://forums.legionsoverdrive.com/threads/auto-download.5490/

 

[Jello]

I have no idea how this game engine works, but my idea was build a system that allows players to register then log in. Then once logged in, they will have the ability to upload a zip file of the map.

Then if someone who has the knowledge of TS would be able to make something so when someone connects to a server and hasn't got the map, it will search for the map name from the web directory and automatically download it.

I'm rubbish at explaining things...

They wont need to log in you can just place the maps that are uploaded on Custom Maps section into the map directory/web directory so when they want to join the game it asks them if they'd like to download and if they click yes it searches for the map in the directory. once the download starts it looks for the live folder where the legions.exe is and all they'll have to do is accept on whether or not they'd like to drop it in the live folder...(Download starts, looks for live folder to place map, user clicks yes to place map in live folder, once map installed they can join game)

 

[Stubbsy]

They wont need to log in you can just place the maps that are uploaded on Custom Maps section into the map directory/web directory so when they want to join the game it asks them if they'd like to download and if they click yes it searches for the map in the directory. once the download starts it looks for the live folder where the legions.exe is and all they'll have to do is accept on whether or not they'd like to drop it in the live folder...(Download starts, looks for live folder to place map, user clicks yes to place map in live folder, once map installed they can join game)

The reason I would personally make it so you are required to log in, is because what about if that want to delete what they have uploaded? Or wanted to view what they have uploaded? I think it would be a good idea, but I did however find my old post about the auto download idea.
http://forums.legionsoverdrive.com/threads/auto-download.5490/
So I think I'm out.