Big Fat Weapon Update on Public Test

[Neuchy]

See that's what's wrong with this community. On the one hand you have the devs and pts on the other you have the rest of the community. The actual GL sucks, it was the best base-dueling weapon. Now what's its use? Ground pounding the stand when you're capping. Great! Except that I don't want that, I want my GL back or a less bouncy GL and by less bouncy I mean less bouncy.

Maybe you should consult the community and ask them in which way they want the game to be developped instead of adding uncalled for updates. But since, that could shaken your god like position in the game you'll most likely never do it.How many of your updates are not supported by the community? Some maps, modes and weapons will almost never be used.
What is so difficult in asking the community's opinion I don't get it. Every project is kept secret as if you were working on locating Ben Laden.

Gheist we know your point of view on this matter.
You're not part of the "community" clan, but rather part of the dev/pt clan.
I believe this thread has been created for the community to express and share its opinion on the matter.
We know what the devs and pts opinion is. Now, just listen, take in consideration and respect the community's opinion since you asked for it.

That is all.

 

[Mahidhar]

From the way, you make your posts Gheist, I see that you do not want a 'no' for an answer. I didn't know answering your questions with facts, is to be taken as a rant. Well, you can think of that, however you like. As for playing the whole game with the Launcher, it was to see how it works, and judge it's limits. Again, I don't look at it/want it, to be an all-weapon killer.

Here's the situation for the weapon, in my opinion; As long as there's ground, and as long as the enemy can land there, there's always the situation. All I was saying, back in my post was, all the havoc in the game, mostly revolves in bases, and in bases, players are never on even ground. DeadGuy tells me, that the GLII is a close range weapon, and I'm simply saying that it's failing at that purpose, because the cluster rarely works in bases.

And please stop telling me to use other weapons. I've been playing this game for three years now, and I know which weapon can be used when.

 

[Ucantry2run]

fyi Private testers are part of the community.

 

[Abandoned]

The 4 clusters that detonate manually separates into such a large surface area that it doesn't do much damage where you want it to..

 

[Neuchy]

fyi Private testers are part of the community.

Not really.
Just look at TS3, whenever you log on PTs talk to PTs and Devs, you guys don't mix with the community or very little f y i

 

[Fixious]

They (not all) play PUGs with the community quite regularly.

 

[Ucantry2run]

Looking on Ts3... there are no two private testers together....wrong?

 

[dx11101]

I wouldnt mind if the cluster grenade was scraped altogether and we just have a traditional light/medium armor grenade launcher and the heavy mortar with extra range and splash. I seem to gather the debate is over the bouncy grenade and the more groundpounding type explode on contact grenade. Just pick one and then everyone has to adapt to one kind of weapon. I understand that some people like to use the cluster to mine the flag but that seemed to be a HoF job which is now delegated to the medium armor somehow.

 

[Gheist]

Fun fact Neuchy, my little conversation with Mahihar here will have no larger impact on development and the dev's decisions than anyone else's opinion. In addition, this is more about getting Mahidar to say what he wants. A simple "I want it to stay like it was before, because I can use it basically like my RL" is completely fine. As soon as he brings forth arguments to "prove" that it can't be any other way than what he'd like to see though, I think it's fine to get him to clarify those arguments, and to ask some questions about these points. And I don't see myself as a PT here (also, we test/hunt bugs/give early feedback, we don't design - that's a major difference), but as the person I am. Please don't try to make this an "us vs. them" situation. Believe me it isn't.

In short: "I want xyz" is indisputable, and totally fine. But if someone says "I want xyz because", and this "because" is either worded unclearly or even logically flawed, it's absolutely okay to talk about it. It most likely won't change anyone's opinion, but it helps to get clear points and wishes out on the table.

[...] The actual GL sucks, it was the best base-dueling weapon. Now what's its use? Ground pounding the stand when you're capping. Great! Except that I don't want that, I want my GL back or a less bouncy GL and by less bouncy I mean less bouncy. [...]

See, this is a clear opinion, clear feedback. (Almost) no pseudo-facts. If it would be less bitter and would contain an "I think" in the beginning, perfect. And believe me, the devs are reading those statements. But you also have to keep in mind, that game development is not a democracy. The devs here really give a lot on our opinions, and that's great. But if one would try to please everyone, it'd just end in chaos. So in the end, we all have to realize that there most likely will be some decisions that we won't be in favor of, individually. A very lucky individual might see the game evolve just like he would've always wished for, others might completely lose interest in the final product (or rage and leave), but the vast majority will, in the end, play a better game and be happy, despite the fact that there have been decisions they didn't totally like at first (or still won't like then - let me remind you of the "I want the old LR" crowd for example).

 

[Ucantry2run]

Funny thing is, I don't hate any of the updates put in place. Its really not hard to adapt to the changes. Maybe if I was more stuck up/ 4 years younger I might have complained in the first week that products were released too.

 

[DeadGuy]

Woah, I'm not taking sides here. Gheist is right, his feedback is on equal ground as everyone else and I am not ignoring anything said here. I don't see a majority on one side of this debate either, so the community seems torn still. As for the cluster inconsistency I agree it is a fickle beast which is why the OP version on live manages to exist. I felt that both sides of table could be satisfied by the 2 types of grenades we had that already existed in the game and I still have hope for that. I will watch how things progress but I am not against anything here except the dulling of gameplay by making weapon choices moot by creating a few overly versatile ones.

PS. If any lurkers are reading this, please add your feedback here instead of discussing things on IRC and TS3.

 

[Mahidhar]

To Gheist. I actually really have nothing to say to that. You aren't a developer, so you don't know any better than I do. I look at you and will treat you to be at the same level as I am. You are no judge of my arguments, or to how much they can be accounted for, as facts. I know the developers are reading all of my posts, and I believe I've made quite reasonable ones, and they will reply accordingly.

 

[Gheist]

[...] I am getting tired of trying to get used to the changes done, when they are so frequent.

 

[Mahidhar]

Please stop changing the whole meaning of my post, by just posting a part of it. I was talking about the grenade arc, which was changed twice now, and hence I made that comment.

 

[Abandoned]

I've been playing around with the Overlord loadout, and I feel like it's really balanced. The Mortar seems to fire into the distance just fine and hitting targets with them is really easy due to the large blast radius. The timer doesn't seem to be a problem too. Most of the time the cappers run INTO the mortar and liqueify themselves (which is hilarious to watch).

Sentinels seem more versatile now. Instead of staying at base the whole time, the mortar gives it the ability to defend itself when heavy-capping. Also, just one close enough hit fromt his renders the cappers completely. Killing Outriders with 1 shot is awesome. Even a close-ish hit puts them down by 50%.

I think the blaster could get a little adjustment though, it's quite annoying to have 3 guys with skybolt or blaster holding down the fire button at you. Was there a reason for the insane firing rates of Plasma, Skybolt and Blaster? 50 ammo for Skybolt and Blaster seems ridiculous.
(The Skybolt feels like a hitscan weapon in close-range combat.)

 

[OmniNept]

The weapons are well-balanced and interesting. They're not 1-2 years well-balanced and interesting, but nevertheless, they're decent additions.

A few quick points:
1) The plasma cannon is currently useless. I'd suggest removing or drastically reducing the overheat. And before you declare it a close-range weapon, remember that rocket MA's and CG are significantly more effective at the cannon's favoured range.

2) I agree with the grenade launcher changes. Currently, the GLII functions decently as the close-ranged weapon DeadGuy has envisioned. (I hate using the term "envisioned" with reference to DeadGuy, because it implies some sort of foresight). Perhaps the damage at the splash sphere's edges could be increased slightly.

3) I enjoy the skybolt, but I can tell you that were Omniscient to take Legions "seriously" again, you'd remove/nerf it into oblivion within the week. This type of weapon, like the CG, rewards aim, consistency, and skill. It's the type of weapon that splits skill gaps wide open, favouring those with "twitch" abilities. I think that's a good thing, but historically bugsco has favoured decreasing skill differential.

Most importantly, please don't spend the next two years of development balancing these weapons. Honestly, these weapons could/should have been envisioned/coded/tested within a month. If you're intending to "flesh out" the Legions skeleton, you've not tons of time to waste.

 

[DeadGuy]

I was talking about the grenade arc, which was changed twice now, and hence I made that comment.

Twice?

 

[Karnage]

Speaking with regard to the heavy again (at the risk of becoming annoying) I was thinking yesterday that what really bugs me is getting used to one thing and then having it taken away again. It happened with the RL2 and the GL2 and now it seems to be happening with the GL2 for the heavy. I understand the removal of the RL2 and regret the loss of the GL2 for raider (the original I mean) but the loss of the cluster for the heavy just seems unnecessary to me. I would not object to adding the heavy classes that can be found in the public test servers right now but to make them the default would be very discouraging. At least let us keep the load-outs we can choose at present and extend the number of load-outs to include the ones in the public test. Choice is the key, I think.

 

[dx11101]

I am just happy the mortar is back and making it green was a plus. Major thanks to whoever is responsible .

 

[Aki]

@Mahidhar: Half of your posts don't make sense, sound contradictory, or sound like you haven't played Legions much at all. Maybe it's the over-abundance of commas, maybe something else. My point is that your argument is hard to discern and I think you're shooting yourself in the foot even as you make your point. I speak bluntly, but I do mean this as a critique and not an insult. I'm interested in your opinion (as are the devs), but so far all I know for sure is that you're unhappy with the changes to the GL.

@Neuchy: Wat? Maybe you're new here, so I'll give you a recent example of the dev community listening (that's right, listening) to the beta testers (that's you and me). When Sleepwalker was first released, everyone hated it. Well, I kinda didn't... Anyway, everyone complained that the map was as flat a prepubescent girl, that it was impossible to get any speed, 'impossible' to duel, and the map was an LR nest. The community offered suggestions like deepening the hills, piling some more sand at the bottom of walls, and plopping a happy little sandstorm on the map to discourage LR *lady friends* from whoreing. Each of these suggestions were implemented on the map to what it is now. This happened only a few weeks ago. Lately I see people begging DeadGuy to forcechange the map to Sleepwalker whenever he comes on. Ahhh, beta testing at work.

Also, what you're calling "uncalled for updates" are tests. In case you forgot, we're as much testers as we are fans. The PTs are the first wave that find technical bugs, and we're the ones the devs ask to check if the changes work as a whole. That's what this "uncalled for update" is: a test, specifically so that they could hear the opinions of you and me. If it were as you say, they would push this update to live without asking us, there would be no testing phase, and you might actually have something to bitch about. What's actually happening is that they are putting their work out on public display for us to rip apart so they can go back and make it better; instead, you're ripping them apart for doing what they need to do in order to give us a game we want to play--for free, btw. They aren't even getting ad revenue off of us, sheesh -_- . Show a little respect and quit bitching just because the devs are not doing what you say they ought to do right now, Veruca Salt.

OT: I personally have no problem with Sents going on offense. Granted, they'll be annoying when you have to deal with them, but they're so slow! Just for them to be combat effective, they would have to go as part of a wave, with heavies leaving early so that LO and HO arrive at the same time to avoid HO getting gangbanged before accomplishing anything useful. O wate, that would add depth to the gaem--god 4bid the devs accomplish THAT. If this means I have to face the green death whether on D or on O, so be it. For now, it's easy enough to avoid if you're already moving and/or the heavy is a bad shot.

I should smack myself for suggesting something that'll make my life harder as an OR, but I think the Mortar is not living up to the hype. When I first played against it, I was expecting to be doomed as soon as someone whipped it out. Come to find out it's really no more dangerous than cluster nades--which were dangerous, don't get me wrong. I've seen players who on a good day can put the entire cluster on the corner crenelations of the moonshine bases--and just as easily right in my face while I'm in the air >_< . I've had routes ruined by a well timed burst either in the air or on the stand. Anyway, the mortar: I think the splash radius needs to be bigger and the special effects more spectacular. Mortar in the real world has as much psychological impact as physical and it would be awesome for that to be true in Leejunz.

One thing I do like about mortar is when it blasts right under my feet as I'm moving up. If it doesn't kill me, it sends me soaring. Feels good, man. Well, except the damage, of course.